What are sound tech’s getting paid at smaller churches?

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by DeepSouth

I can't believe anyone gets paid anything for doing the sound - makes me glad I don't go to church anymore. So much for being a servant.

I've seen what the sound guy does, and it's work! Especially if he's doing a good job and doing it right.

Just because a person provides a service for a church does not mean he must do it for free.

That's simply not a reasonable expectation.

The electric company certainly doesn't provide the electricity for free, and the janitors certainly don't scrub the toilets for free, and the publishing house doesn't provide hymnals for free either.

Another important point, and one I've experienced myself several times, is that if people (or a church, or any other group or organization) is not being made to pay for a service, then they usually will place no value on that service (or service person), and will treat them accordingly. At the very least, they will take those services for granted.

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

The electric company certainly doesn't provide the electricity for free, and the janitors certainly don't scrub the toilets for free, and the publishing house doesn't provide hymnals for free either.

This is so true. Basically churches just pay the going rate for services. People (myself included) will play music and engineer sound for free the other six days a week at bars and parties, so why would the church expect to pay music people.

I don't expect the heater repairman to come to my house for free and neither does the church. But I can invite my music friends to play for hours at my back yard party for no more than a chicken wing and a couple beers.

[DeepSouth]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

This is so true. Basically churches just pay the going rate for services. People (myself included) will play music and engineer sound for free the other six days a week at bars and parties, so why would the church expect to pay music people.

I don't expect the heater repairman to come to my house for free and neither does the church. But I can invite my music friends to play for hours at my back yard party for no more than a chicken wing and a couple beers.

Well I guess if we were talking about most ordinary secular activities I would certainly agree - but only sometimes. For example the editor of our Astronomy club's newsletter/journal doesn't get paid and same for the web administrator and any number of other people who give their services 'pro bono'.

So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?

I don't know - I think it's all a bit tawdry - but everyone is different. So who am I to criticise and I mean that too. Having said that I think like the examples I just gave but that's just me I guess.

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by DeepSouth

Well I guess if we were talking about most ordinary secular activities I would certainly agree - but only sometimes. For example the editor of our Astronomy club's newsletter/journal doesn't get paid and same for the web administrator and any number of other people who give their services 'pro bono'.

So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?

I don't know - I think it's all a bit tawdry - but everyone is different. So who am I to criticise and I mean that too. Having said that I think like the examples I just gave but that's just me I guess.

You rightly ask, "Who am I to criticize?" after you judge their faith and commitment and find them wanting. The proper course would be to refrain from criticism when you know it is inappropriate.

[Jhengsman]

The problem is that among a random pull of 300 people say 200 canwrite well enough to write and print a newsletter and church bulletin. Many would have taken piano or high school instrumental music lessons. For a sound pro all you might have is somebody able to turn on a PA and set the master volume. The OP's team wants to go to the next level and ultimatly the only thing which makes them different from the church next door is that their church coumcil is willing to pay for rehearsals, two Sunday services and perhaps the wedding, funerals, etc here and there.

[Nub]

Originally Posted by SixShooter

I think things at my church have come to the point where we need a paid sound technician. Our church runs about 150 people attending each of 2 services. We’re having a hard time manning the sound board on a consistent basis. The other problem is that the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job. In particular we are having problems and inconsistencies with the praise band mix. The other issue is that we really need someone to take ownership of the sound system and figure out how and what to upgrade. The praise band has only been around for a couple years and the sound system really isn’t set up well for it.

It sounds like our churches are similar in size... mine has 2 services of 225+, and we're starting a 3rd service in January. In my church, the sound guys are part of the worship team... same responsibilities, same requirements, same schedule. And no paid positions, it's volunteer ministry. They take their responsibilities to heart because they're invested in the congregation that they are a part of, and by serving, they grow spiritually... paying someone to come in wouldn't do that. As the leader, I have the final say on equipment upgrades (and how our budget is spent!), but get input regularly from the rest of the team.

To me, it sounds like a leadership problem rather than a sound tech problem. Train the guys you already have, and get them on a consistent schedule... folks get excited about serving when they succeed at it, but you have to give them the tools for it. We've got a couple of guys on our sound team who had never done any sound reinforcement before, but with a little training & a lot of encouragement, they've become some of the most committed & dependable members of the worship team. Also, we've started bringing in some of the youth to help out; jr & sr high kids love technology and music, and with some supervision, learn the a/v computers & soundboard quicker than many of the adults.

[black_doug]

[QUOTE=DeepSouth;3767486]So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?QUOTE]

Where did this idea come from? We have it wrong IMO when we assume that a person must be serving with wrong motives when money is involved. How can anyone judge one's motives? I can't even judge my own. (I'm trying to avoid theology BTW.)

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by SixShooter

Trust me, I would love to have a member step forward and own it unpaid. We have tried to find that person and they don't exist in our current membership. That's why I'm thinking we need to hire someone. I also think it's more than just training someone to twist knobs. The tech needs to know what they are hearing and what they should be hearing. It's hard to find a volunteer with that ability.

We have maybe 200-300 at each of two services every Sunday. The director is the only paid music related position. We have 4 or 5 guys (why don't girls want to run sound?) who know how to use the board to meet bare necessities for sound, but that doesn't mean they make it sound good.

It is one thing to know what each knob is for. It is a whole different matter entirely to have the ability to make a musical mix. We have one guy who has nothing else in life but work and sitting at the AV computer to run the slides for each service. The church staff like him because he is always the first one there and the last one to leave and he will always say, "I'll do it." when the need arises. But if you heard the sound he runs, you would agree with me that the guy should never be allowed to touch another sound board again as long as he lives. He simply does not belong in that position, and has no clue how to pay attention to the service while running the board, and he certainly has no ear for making the mix musical. Bless his heart, but pass the resume's please.

But that's what happens when everything runs on volunteeers. The sound sounds amateur and full of mistakes, the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors, new visitors end up at the bling bling chrome and sparkle mega church down the road where all of these tasks are handled by paid staff. I'm willing to play and run sound for free, but nobody else is willing to raise the bar at our church. They just glide by on "good enough to get thru it for now."

[SamClemons]

A lot of folks are fooling theirselves. If you get the best sound guy on earth, you may still have "the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors" You may not be able to compete with the "show" down the street at the mega church. Your musicians probably are part time amatures that do have flaws and mistakes and a good soundman can help, but he will not produce miracles. Is the spirit of God moving in the church? Is meaningful worship going on? Flaws and all?

[CharlesCapps]

I attend a small church. We do not have a sound engineer. Our sound sytem is usually pretty good but gets out of whack every once in a while. Our Music Director/Singer/Guitar Player is a good man who does the music out of his love for God. Nobody gets paid in our church. We use the gifts that God gave us for his Glory. I wouldn't ever consider recieving money for my playing and singing in church. I am happy to use the gifts that God gave me for Him. It's all a Spiritual undertaking and not a carnal pay me money for my sevices thing. Oh Yeah, we make a lot of mistakes and the people just keep on worshipping God.

[Dr. Bill]

Originally Posted by robt57

Paid?

+1

[TxTeleMan]

Originally Posted by SixShooter

I think things at my church have come to the point where we need a paid sound technician. Our church runs about 150 people attending each of 2 services. We’re having a hard time manning the sound board on a consistent basis. The other problem is that the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job. In particular we are having problems and inconsistencies with the praise band mix. The other issue is that we really need someone to take ownership of the sound system and figure out how and what to upgrade. The praise band has only been around for a couple years and the sound system really isn’t set up well for it.

First service is at 8:30 and I imagine the tech would need to show up at 7:45 at the latest. The second service is at 11:00. I think he could be finished by 12:15. What should we expect to pay for someone to do this? Any ideas on how to recruit for this?

I played for 6 years in a similar-sized church. None of the musicians got paid, except for the worship leader, who is one of the pastors. They paid sound techs. Very crappy situation. We haul $2,000 worth of gear from home twice a week and provide music, and they pay the guy who runs sound. I don't know how much they were paid, but if I had to speculate, I would say $10-$15 an hour.

There's a reason for this. Someone even wrote a song about it, "Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus; Everybody wants to be the lead singer in the band," which in this instance means we want to be the guy on stage being the hero, and don't want to be the guy behind the scenes.

I have two other personal experiences with this. I played guitar in a Praise Rock band for several years. We played youth groups, summer camps, church functions, etc. I told one of the other band members that I didn't want to be up there drawing attention to myself, and he seemed very confused by that.

The second experience concerns "the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job." This church also put on an annual arts festival, and some people I know had an acoustic band and I volunteered to be the sound man. Afterwards, they told me that the mix was perfect and they wanted me to do that again.

Two ingredients are needed. One is a heart for worship. The second is skill at your position.

My question is: "Does a church of 150 people really need a "sound man"? If so, you might want to apprentice someone for that position, "train up" someone. You want to pay him? Feed him lunch and teach him a skill.

[Nub]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

But that's what happens when everything runs on volunteers. The sound sounds amateur and full of mistakes, the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors, new visitors end up at the bling bling chrome and sparkle mega church down the road where all of these tasks are handled by paid staff. I'm willing to play and run sound for free, but nobody else is willing to raise the bar at our church. They just glide by on "good enough to get thru it for now."

Nope, that's not what always happens with volunteers. It's what happens with poor leadership and lack of organization. I've heard crap music from pro bands, and crap sound mixes from pro sound guys... just because they're pros, is no guarantee of quality. Most church sound systems, especially in small churches, are pretty simple, and it's not that tough to train an average person how to get a consistently good mix. But, someone has to take the time & effort to train them, and then oversee them.

"Nobody else" is willing to do well at your church, besides you? Pretty hard to believe (and kind of prideful on your part). People love to succeed, love to do things well... volunteers at church are no different. They need to be taught, though, shown how to do their best, given guidelines/requirements, and then encouraged (& corrected!) until the quality is there. And since it's also a ministry, growing spiritually & relationally is also critical. Again, it comes down to the leadership at your church... if the leadership doesn't care about training people to do well & encouraging their growth, you're going to have a worship team that reflects that.

One more thing... "bling bling chrome and sparkle" isn't what changes people's lives, saves them. It may attract them for a while, sometimes a long while, but if there's no substance there, it's not going to make a real difference in their lives. If you're involved in a small church, it's important to keep that in mind. In a small church, you have opportunities to reach folks on a personal level that is much tougher to achieve in a huge church, even without the "bling."

[mrboson]

In my town all the churches are small (200-300 per service or less). I personally know most of the worship team folks in town, who are all volunteers, and for the most part they are willing to put their best out. Maybe someone doesn't have enough time to practice a lot, or learn everything there is on how to run a PA or drive the Media Shout or the lights or whatever, but I can't imagine even volunteers not at least desiring to do a good job. But like the previous poster said, not every church is the same in regards to fostering and encouraging this.

I *have* been on teams where someone was asked to not do something because of a lack of skill that training or practice just wasn't getting him there. I have also been on teams where people with the heart and the desire were blocked from learning and growing. I've been on teams where someone was moved to a different role because another volunteer could do his or job better, or a gap needed to be filled. I have been that guy myself: "We would like you to play primarily acoustic because Gene is better at improvising leads".

In each of those cases, the quality of the worship during services (notice I didn't say quality of musicianship or engineering) reflected the heart of the team members and the leadership, the willingness of the church to provide a great team environment, and the willingness of the individual members to be as selfless as possible and just do their best.

FWIW, when it is all working, I really, really like the vibe at the smaller churches, smaller sanctuary, smaller platform/stage, everything close to the congregation. That would be my current church... I am blessed :)

[Joe-Bob]

I wonder how some people can even see where they're going with their noses so high in the air.

[Nub]

Originally Posted by TxTeleMan

Two ingredients are needed. One is a heart for worship. The second is skill at your position.

Exactly right... and when the focus is only on one of those things, or neither of them, things can go sour pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by TxTeleMan

My question is: "Does a church of 150 people really need a "sound man"? If so, you might want to apprentice someone for that position, "train up" someone. You want to pay him? Feed him lunch and teach him a skill.

The worship team at my church would rather have donuts than money any day! Btw, I feed 'em every Sunday, and I let them know how much I appreciate their hard work and commitment all the time... they love serving, and work hard at their craft. Like mrboson, I am blessed, too.

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

I wonder how some people can even see where they're going with their noses so high in the air.

Not sure what you're referring to, JB... care to explain?

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by Nub

Not sure what you're referring to, JB... care to explain?

If you don't already see it, then I don't know what I could say.

[BigE24]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Another important point, and one I've experienced myself several times, is that if people (or a church, or any other group or organization) is not being made to pay for a service, then they usually will place no value on that service (or service person), and will treat them accordingly. At the very least, they will take those services for granted.

This is so true, I do sound board work when needed to and don't expect to receive any money for it.
But I do see the sound guys mistreated if anything goes wrong, even if it's not their fault. If a church has a budget for it being a paid position then, I see that as a great opportunity for someone to step up.

[DonB52]

Some of you folks actually get paid?!? We are all volunteers for Christ at our church, musicians and A/V folks.

[MrCairo46]

Paid??? I know a tech who is professionally an installer of sound gear and at his church he volunteers. For our church and others he charges a small fee to install, help set up, set levels and train team to run sound. Nick is a great guy. I guess I could see sound guys getting paid for weddings, but worship ..... nope.