A little help with understanding?

[Bozo Bus]

Greetings,
Be forewarned, I do not play in a worship band, but REALLY enjoy our worship band, Most are kids, 4 guitars, 2 electric (Two Tele's no doubt!), Two acoustics, the Praise Minister plays one and is often joked about it being turned up... , Two keys, a bass and drummer.

They are a really tight band and it is clear they reherse quite a bit.

I do not listen to "Christian" music, I listen to sports radio in the car, and usually waht I listen to at home is stuff I'm trying to learn.

To my question.....
All the music sounds the same.... The lead guitarist plays a Edge / U2 type "chanky chanky chanky" thing - you know the "Streets have no name" kind of thing... And everything is in the same key.... same general tempo and time..

We are sort of new to this church, previously we were members of a church that sang from the hymnals I sang from when I was a kid... I really do like the music, however it does get somewhat predictable...

Really .. here's my question: In your experience with praise and worship music, is the "Same sounding songs" done on purpose to not shake things up for the masses?

Please understand, I am not being critical at all, I think being a musician and a Dead Head of a WIDE taste in music (that is a post for later.... What you say!!!! A Christain Dead Head????) has perhaps tainted me in my opinion of radio music and predictablity....

Can someone help me understand? I know I can go to the praise pastor and ask him, but I don't want to be insulting either..... Man, All your stuff sounds the same...... I would really coming off sonding like a jerk.....

Thanks in advance for your help!
PEACE,
Phil

[Parma_TeleMon]

My dear BozoBus (watch yer shoes, will ya?), I fear you're inadvertantly tossing rocks at a hornets' nest. With that caveat, I'll proceed...

I've been leading worship since the early '80s, before the inception of the term "Contemporary Worship". Most of what we played came out of southern California, originally from Maranatha! ministries and later from the Vineyard movement. It was hip, cool, refreshing - and much of it sounds pretty dated now. At the time the whole concept was considered pretty radical, but more and more churches (Evangelical, neo-Pentecostal and mainline alike) began to embrace the music, perhaps sensing that there was life (or at least freshness) in it. Some of the best of the best IMHO came from live recordings of worship services or conferences held by the various music groups, Vineyard, Hosanna/Integrity, Hillsong, et al. Studio albums were cut; we saw the advent of Contemporary Christian Music as a genre get so popular that "secular" record labels started getting in on the act, and before you knew it Wal-Mart had gotten a "Christian" section.

In retrospect, I chuckle at the controversy it's generated over the years. After all, we've had country singers making "gospel" records for decades!!

And I said all that to say this: what we have now is an entire industry around Christian music, most of which sounds like everything else on the radio. It may well be that your praise pastor really likes this style and that's what he wants to play and he wins because he's the boss. We have four worship leaders at our church, all young enough to be my kids. Heck, one of them has a dad who's younger than I am!! We play a pretty good mix of music, but more and more is reflecting the musical tastes of our young male worship leaders. In their defense, they try to be somewhat diverse while mainting integrity with who they are.

Still, I'm honing my the Edge chops and trying to do the '90s riffs that fit the music. Every once in awhile, however, they play something that lets the ol' man rip off a solo that makes me grin.

John Wimber believed that our children would worship God in ways that were as radically different as our worship differed from our parents'. I think we're starting to see some of that. Wonder what it's gonna look like when our grandkids are in their 30s?

[Bozo Bus]

Thank you Parma,
The bozo shoes are off and in the corner now....

I did not try to be on the business end of recieving grief for my comments.... No harm, just trying to understand. Agreed the "players" in our band are good muscians, They donate their time and are bale to play in front of folks. Good on 'em!

Perhaps it is my background more than anything. I tend to appreciate doing a good 'ol Hagard tune then transitioning that into a Pink Floyd song...

With further reflection, I think it is me. I was asked to play bass for a friends band (I'm a guitarist that owns a bass...) During the three rehersals before the gig, I pretty much stayed in the pocket and behaved. At the third rehersal, we did one more run over the rough spots, and I had the songs in the pocket, the guitarist was having a little difficulty.... I asked if it would mess him up if I ventured off the beaten path. It was cool with them and I gave them an "Out" by telling them to let me know if I was to far out there... All agreed at the end of the rehersal I was in check enough not to mess anyone up... So off to the gig we go, I stay in the pocket for the most part with minor excursions (All in key). The female lead singer cut a look my way that would have frozen water in the Sahara.... I asked the other musicians in the band if I had really messed up that bad. It seems the singer was cool with my "Freak flag" flying in rehersal, but once she heard it in the in-ear ... It through her off.
All of that to say, To me it only gets real interesting when the toes are dangling off the edge.

Maybe that's why I'm not in a band.....

Thanks again,
PEACE,
Phil

[asquier]

It's my understanding that worship music is deliberately easy to play (read: boring, watery, homogenous) because it's about the worship and congregational singing much more so than the music and leaders' singing. As a music lover, it took me a long time to get over that.

[Saxguitar]

Originally Posted by asquier

...because it's about the worship and congregational singing much more so than the music and leaders' singing.

I think that is the main part of it, my PT played a set this week full of more contempory stuff and the congregation did not participate as much as they usually do when we do other more traditional yet contemporary stuff, it was to much for them. The PT is there to get the congregation involved not to play a concert or at least that has always been my experience.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bozo Bus]

True enough Ryan, I guess being cursed with a listening ear and always looking for folks to air it out a bit, I didn't think of the audience for which they are playing. I could see how a set of experiemental music would take something away from their purpose of giving their gifts back to their "Family".
As I mentioned, these guys seem to be good musicians in a way, they are like my pook 'ol Toby dog when i have to leash him on the way to the park... He knows he is about to run like a border collie is supposed to, but I am holding him back...
Perhaps not a good analogy comparing these guys to my dog, but I hope you get the point.

A second eye is ALWAYS good for a different understanding...

THANKS and
PEACE,
Phil

[Joe-Bob]

Our church just started a worship band, and I'm certainly not gonna let all the guitar sounds be the same.

This last week, I played clean, distorted, and even used chorus on one song. I intend to keep it interesting.

[777Brad]

We do 'covers' of almost all the leading contemporary stuff, Lincoln Brewster, Casting Crowns, David Crowder, Chris Tomlin, Unhindered, Mercy Me. I don't think that it all sounds homogeneous. We change tempos, keys, styles & I even change patches on my Vox Tonelab LE!

Now, granted, we have to make a deliberate effort to 'change up' our feel. Otherwise I find that, left unchecked, people will tend to gravitate towards one comfortable, familar feel.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by asquier

It's my understanding that worship music is deliberately easy to play (read: boring, watery, homogenous) because it's about the worship and congregational singing much more so than the music and leaders' singing. As a music lover, it took me a long time to get over that.

That is what I think. Paul Baloche writes with using easy open chord progressions in mind. Israel Houghton has a bunch of songs with the low E droning through out. Besides leading a congregation they are writing so amateur Praise and Worship teams can play a passable cover of their songs.

[RodeoTex]

Somebody had a thread here a week or so ago talking about how all praise music is based on the Edge and all other styles are frowned upon.

I was almost rolling on the floor laughing because a year ago I was running sound for a worship/praise band in an auditorium where I work.

I quickly figured out that the bass, drums and guitar were pretty much just doing the Joshua Tree. Once I dialed in that sound which I am very familiar with and everything sounded great (well, except for the arm waving singer).

I don't listen to that type of music and had no idea that most all current praise music is based on U2, that's why it was so funny to me. I figured it out all by myself and it is dead true.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by RodeoTex

Somebody had a thread here a week or so ago talking about how all praise music is based on the Edge and all other styles are frowned upon.

I was almost rolling on the floor laughing because a year ago I was running sound for a worship/praise band in an auditorium where I work.

I quickly figured out that the bass, drums and guitar were pretty much just doing the Joshua Tree. Once I dialed in that sound which I am very familiar with and everything sounded great (well, except for the arm waving singer).

I don't listen to that type of music and had no idea that most all current praise music is based on U2, that's why it was so funny to me. I figured it out all by myself and it is dead true.

Well they have been described as 3/4 of the world's greatest Christian band.

[Parma_TeleMon]

Originally Posted by 777Brad

We do 'covers' of almost all the leading contemporary stuff, Lincoln Brewster, Casting Crowns, David Crowder, Chris Tomlin, Unhindered, Mercy Me. I don't think that it all sounds homogeneous. We change tempos, keys, styles & I even change patches on my Vox Tonelab LE!

Now, granted, we have to make a deliberate effort to 'change up' our feel. Otherwise I find that, left unchecked, people will tend to gravitate towards one comfortable, familar feel.

Excellent point, Brad. Even during small group worship, I catch myself playing too many songs that sound the same, in the same key, same dynamic, etc. from time to time.

I normally use 3 or 4 patches on my TLLE during a set: one really clean, one clean whith phase (and a dirt box assigned to the Control button) and two other AC-30 just-breakin'-up patches with different dirt available via the Control button. And on rare occasions I'll break out a little delay.

I'll also admit that sometimes it's kinda fun serving with the 16-25 crowd as it teaches me to learn more stuff - especially all those 8th fret open chords!!

[Jhengsman]

Another reason for the sameness of sound and feel is that the primary purpose of a worship set is not to put on a show but to set an emotional backdrop. Chords/keys tend to be the same so that the level of musician on P&W teams can make smooth transitions from one song to the next. Most famously so a guitarist playing open chords doesn't have to shift a capo.

For the congregation you want a mood set and you don't want to jump around.

[still_fiddlin]

Pretty good article about U2 & faith in recent Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6659227.html

(We have "40" in our set list.)

I'm sure there's a bit of "sameness" in our sound, but it's guitar, bass, keyboard & drums, and none of us are swapping instruments or have a rack of effects.

Even with my pedalboard, there's only so much you can do with 1 Fender guitar and 1 Fender amp. Of course, I use effects to get close to what the song guitarist is doing - the congregation has heard a lot of the tunes on the radio, so I'd want them to be comfortable with what they are hearing and able to listen, praise/participate without thinking about "what is the band doing *now*?"

And, anyway, that's what bands do, i.e., have a sound that's somewhat recognizable (= the same), and, realistically, we can't be MercyMe/Chris Tomlin/Mandisa/etc.

[WideAwake]

I think it depends on your worship band, really. If your guitar player digs U2 or the edge, it's probably going to come out in the music. That said, contemporary Christian music sure did go through a time where everyone was using delay and sounding like u2.

I've heard worship teams take those songs and make them more country sounding, because that is where the guitarplayer/musicians were coming from, and the don't sound much like the original songs.

I really try to vary stuff up - I am currently the only guitar player, so I use my gear to try to make it more dynamic. I am a huge u2 fan, if you can't tell by my forum name, but I know exactly when NOT to use that stuff, and know I could easily overdo it.

But yeah, like any other industry, CCM has it's ups and downs. It's all what you as the musician interpreting make of it, really. Sometimes it's tough, because you are a still cover band just like everyone else if you are doing other peoples stuff. You are just doing it in a different location and hopefully for a different reason.

[Rich_S]

A few years ago, I joined our church's P&W band at a time when they needed help, not because I had a strong love for the Contemporary Christian repertiore. I thought it was all going to be folky or country gospel kind of stuff. I was also concerned that my chops were going to need a lot of work, and my "style" of guitar wouldn't fit in. I had learned to play in the late 70s and ealry 80's, heavily influenced by The Police and U2.

When I started listening to the band's practice CDs, I suddenly thought, "No problem! It all sounds like U2! I got my Andy Summers, I got my Johnny Marr, I got my Edge... I can play that."

I still had trouble thinking that all the CC songs sounded the same, but after a while I realized that it wasn't because it's Christian music, it's just that in the 2000's ALL music sounds the same. (Within genres at least). Ignoring completly different style such as hip hop or metal, almost all pop/rock music has that U2 kinda thang going on. Hello!?! Can anybody say "Coldplay"?

Once I realized it was a symptom of "music" rather than "Christian music" I felt better. While the primary purpose of writing the songs and singing them may be worship, there is a strong commercial influence on CC music these days, and I think the production of the songs (how they end up sounding on the CD) is mostly driven by what will make the music-buying public most comfortable.

In an environment where a P&W band swaps players every week, with very little rehearsal, it's easiest to stick to the recorded version. In a band that remains static over time, where players get to know each other and the material, then you can play with arrangments and make the song your own. I noticed this effect by the 3rd or 4th time we performed some of our more-common numbers; once I got comfortable with a song, I could start applying my own ideas.

I stopped playing with that band almost two years ago when my family moved, but I've been thinking lately that I miss it. Lurking around here might be the first step in finding myself a new church & band with which to get involved.

[Parma_TeleMon]

Godspeed in your search, Rich!!