Church musicians must be exclusive?

[sax4blues]

A guitar player in my band wants to play in a church worship band. Because this church regards everyone serving as worship leaders they require completion of their ten week course of study. For me so far so good. But… now he tells us to play in their band he must sign a contract that he will not play in any other bands.???

I thought part of being a Christian is going out into the world to let your light shine, not get in here and lock the doors. My friend is a very active musician having played over 40 years. Now he will give all of that up to serve just one church. On the other side of the coin we played another members church picnic this summer where they paid us gas money and cases of good wine.

Anybody else experience similar situation?

[Parma_TeleMon]

Bummer. I can't imagine why they would do that unless they record to resell their music and don't want their players in competing bands. But I agree with you, I think it would be cool to gig in a club on Saturday night and in church on Sunday, provided the Sat. night gig doesn't cause you to sin.

[TxTeleMan]

I don't have an issue with a church having rules such as that. You know the rules going in. A church worship leader should have two requirements:

• Be skillful on their chosen instrument
• Have an active walk with God.

I play in a church worship band at an Assembly of God church. I play in a Bob Dylan/The Band group, and I play in an acoustic duo.

[Tele295]

The pay better be pretty good for an exclusive contract like that. Something doesn't sound right there. I love praying with my music as much as anybody, but unless I took vocational vows, I wouldn't expect to be cloistered.

Are the worship leaders in the other ministries (non-music) required to sign exclusive contracts as well? Are they not permitted to have day jobs?

[tomringg]

Sounds like a bit of whacky doctrine. I don't know how they can justify that kind of thinking other than a kind of 'holier than thou' attitude. I could see other guidelines to limit behavior, but not this.

[myk2e]

The question that comes to my mind with this contract is it regarding other worship groups/artists or 'secular' bands?

I've played with several people lately and my regular worship leader has encouraged me to do that. I had a chance to do a week long conference with a pastor basically as an audition to be full time with him. My pastor and worship leader were excited for me and were equally disappointed as I was when everything fell through.

Personally I was afraid to approach these two long time friends but what I finally had to realize was that I was trying to serve God, not my friends.

Thats the problem I have with such contracts. A certain youth group had its leaders do a contract that they wouldn't listen to secular music and watch anything PG or worse etc etc. What happens is that when a person fails to live up to this contract/pact/promise they don't know who they've let down, their friends or God

Sorry if this has crossed the guidelines on this

[callaway]

I think it might be a matter of them wanting you to be dedicated in your music to just the worship team. So all your focus in playing should be working towards that, instead of potentially spending more time working on material for other bands and giving the Sunday service your "second best".

Not saying I agree with that philosophy, but I think that's where it's coming from.

To me, everyone playing in a worship service should have the commitment to it to give it their best. So I don't care what else you do with your playing as well, just as long as you don't treat the worship team as an afterthought. That means making every practice (of course), at least thinking about the material outside of practice a bit, and showing up ready to go and in good frame of mind for the service.

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by Tele295

Are the worship leaders in the other ministries (non-music) required to sign exclusive contracts as well? Are they not permitted to have day jobs?

Originally Posted by myk2e

The question that comes to my mind with this contract is it regarding other worship groups/artists or 'secular' bands?

These are the kind of things I need to talk with him about. He told us he would need to quit our 'secular' band.

I have a few mixed feelings. I'm selfishly bummed about losing him, we play every week and gig 1-2 times a month. I'm glad he is deepening his service to God. I'm concerned about church contracts that prohibit participation in the world.

[jarrodmichael]

That's cracked. Sorry, but it is. Way too many control issues there.

[62Caster]

Sounds crazy, I would like to hear why such a contract exists

[bobthecanadian]

If it was me I wouldn't agree to such a thing.

[JamonHamon]

Sounds to me that the guy was potty trained at gun point

no way I'd do it

[jb12string]

does seem a bit strange, I'd like a few more details before I form an opinion...

[electric]

I wouldn't do it.

[telechaser]

Count me in as somebody that wouldn't do it. I don't have problem playing outside church as long as I'm promoting a positive message.

[Bswailes]

As a worship team member of long duration, I too, have done the "backslide" into secular music. Wouldn't have done it any different...

My take? There is Christianity. Then there's "Church-ianity." I have enough trouble trying to keep the two basic commandments to love God wholly, and my neighbor as myself.

Seen plenty of rules...and the broken people left behind, as well. Like Abraham Lincoln, (and Phillip Yancey), I prefer a church that will first emphasize the "basics of love."

Ever hear of Sister Rosetta Tharpe? What an inspiration to so many greats! Capable of burning up a white Gibson SG (and the first 10-rows at her concerts); played gospel all her life. She was buried in an unmarked grave in Philadelphia until some "sinners" thought better of it.

I dunno...I'm just a poor sinner. God have mercy on us all...

[ravindave_3600]

Originally Posted by jb12string

does seem a bit strange, I'd like a few more details before I form an opinion...

+1

It just sounds like there's more to this story we're not hearing. So, what's the motivation here? If he agrees, can your friend play nothing outside of this church?

[goldtopper]

Two reasons I can think of-

1- If you play in another band with less than Christian ideals, that could reflect poorly on your Church.

2- Merceneries. I know more than a few people who only go to Church in order to be able to play. They don't become involved in the Church in any way other than the band. They often belong to several churches at the same time. To my mind, this is to give the perception of glorifying God, but in reality feeding an ego.

[WideAwake]

Our requirement is that team members attend our church, and ideally become members. They can't just come to play and leave, etc. No restrictions on what they do outside, that is between them and God. If we were getting reports that someone was spending their own time doing things that directly conflicted with the church or our values(and this includes more than music), etc, we'd probably ask them to take a step back for a bit and re-evaluate themselves and their position on the team. Like it or not, we are leaders, we are noticeable, so sure there is a little more pressure on us, but if you are living your life for God, the rest of the stuff usually falls into place.

But we'd never say you can't play in bands, or with other people. That's silly. We don't pay or get paid to do this, we feel very fortunate when someone donates their time and talent.

[Tele Fan]

I grew up with my Dad being a preacher and I've never heard of anything like that. It seems a little suspicious to me.

[Southern Ill Electrics]

Originally Posted by Bswailes

As a worship team member of long duration, I too, have done the "backslide" into secular music. Wouldn't have done it any different...

My take? There is Christianity. Then there's "Church-ianity." I have enough trouble trying to keep the two basic commandments to love God wholly, and my neighbor as myself.

Seen plenty of rules...and the broken people left behind, as well. Like Abraham Lincoln, (and Phillip Yancey), I prefer a church that will first emphasize the "basics of love."

Ever hear of Sister Rosetta Tharpe? What an inspiration to so many greats! Capable of burning up a white Gibson SG (and the first 10-rows at her concerts); played gospel all her life. She was buried in an unmarked grave in Philadelphia until some "sinners" thought better of it.

I dunno...I'm just a poor sinner. God have mercy on us all...

As well put as I have ever heard.

[guitarzan13]

Originally Posted by jarrodmichael

That's cracked. Sorry, but it is. Way too many control issues there.

Originally Posted by 62Caster

Sounds crazy, I would like to hear why such a contract exists

Originally Posted by bobthecanadian

If it was me I wouldn't agree to such a thing.

Originally Posted by jb12string

does seem a bit strange, I'd like a few more details before I form an opinion...

Originally Posted by electric

I wouldn't do it.

Originally Posted by telechaser

Count me in as somebody that wouldn't do it. I don't have problem playing outside church as long as I'm promoting a positive message.

All of the Above!!!

[elmatt]

I have been the primary worship leader/music director for two churches over the last 10 years and served as a team member for about 5 years before that. I have never heard of any rules regarding exclusivity. In fact many of my musicians, including myself, will play at neighboring churches from time to time. The only thing I ask of my musicians, and I am usually asked of the same when working for someone else, is that regardless of what I/they do outside of church - music or otherwise - remember you are now in a public position and your words and actions will affect your credibility - so use common sense. The only way I would sign an exclusivity contract is if I was guaranteed a substantial amount of money and I do not know of any churches that pay THAT well:)

[Tele295]

Think about this in reverse. Under this policy, a professional musican, for example, a studio player or the principal cellist of the local symphony, is not allowed to play in church and worship with their instrument. Does that sound, for lack of a better term, "kosher"?

[Ptrallan01]

he knows going in what the expectations are.

I have been involved with church music/musicians for a long time and can see why a church might want this type of arrangement. I wouldn't ask for such a thing but do understand that this COULD be a good thing for some musicians and churches.

How much is he being paid? How often will he be expected to be there, multiple sunday services, multiple midweek services, travelling with the church and or pastor?

There are different ways of doing things that are neither right or wrong. This is the rule there. He doesn't have to except it. Doesn't make him more or less of a Christian just not a fit for this particular situation.

Love covers a multitude of sins/shortcomings/failings. A 10 week training course to be a church lmusician seems pretty intensive. They must be expecting quite a "performance" on stage and off.

Let us know how this turns out. It should be interesting. How long is this contract?

[mrSlush50]

Only read the first post but just had to say this before I go back and read the rest of the thread:

That is just plain stupid. He should tell them no thank you and take his talent somewhere it will be allowed to speak to people both within the church walls AND without.

EDIT: ok, read the comments and thought I would add that I too had to sign a contract when I joined by church worship band and I also would have been required to become a church member had I not already been one. The contract states that I will attend church regularly on off Sundays as well as weeks when I'm playing. I suppose that would prevent me from playing in another church's Sunday morning worship but I have no doubt that both my senior and worship pastors would have no qualms about club gigs and certainly no problem with my playing at another church's midweek or Saturday night service so long as that church understood that my current church would remain my home. In fact several members of our band play at other churches and one is actually a touring musician in a secular band.

[Mike Bruce]

Well, there's no rule saying I cannot worship wherever and however I like...and I do worship wherever and however I like. I wouldn't sign a contract like that as no one has a right to expect me to agree to it. (In my opinion of course.) I would agree to showing up for practices and performances, not to to any form of exclusivity.

If it sounds judgemental, I'm sorry, but it is a crazy demand.

Mike Bruce

[ravindave_3600]

So, Sax4blues, any more information on WHY this is required?

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by ravindave_3600

So, Sax4blues, any more information on WHY this is required?

We don't get together again until this coming Wednesday. I will definitely talk in depth with him. He took me by surprise when he told us this last week and I didn't really get into it right then. It just seems wrong on just about every level. Thanks for the feedback everyone, it helps me get my head together before we talk.

[Wahwax]

I think the reason might be that they don't want you playing in a bar on Saturday night and then in church on Sunday. While you might be a great Christian witness in the bar, many people will just see that a leader in the church was at the bar.

Ironically the reason I logged in today was to ask if any of you guys also play secular music in bands outside church. Forming a new group. We want to play a mix of Christian and secular stuff. I'll post more in a new thread.

[callaway]

Originally Posted by Wahwax

I think the reason might be that they don't want you playing in a bar on Saturday night and then in church on Sunday. While you might be a great Christian witness in the bar, many people will just see that a leader in the church was at the bar.

Oh noes... I guess the Wesley brothers weren't Christians then!

[jb12string]

Originally Posted by callaway

Oh noes... I guess the Wesley brothers weren't Christians then!

I don't think wahwax said that you couldn't be a Christian and in a bar.

I see his point. It might be awkward if you invite a buddy to church and have him lean over and say that the guitar player on stage was playing at the bar the night before. Of course, it could lead to some good discussion too, just depends on the situation. Nobody told him he couldn't play anywhere he wanted to, they just said that he can't do it if he wants to play with them

[callaway]

Originally Posted by jb12string

I don't think wahwax said that you couldn't be a Christian and in a bar.

I know, it was more of a remark in general to those people who would think otherwise...

[TELEkinetic]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

But… now he tells us to play in their band he must sign a contract that he will not play in any other bands.

From re-reading your original post, it appears the possibility may exist that your friend may be looking for a way out of your band without creating any hard feelings. Just another angle.......

Posssible?

[cdc3jj]

Last time I posted here the thread got closed so I'll try to be as PC as possible.

Our church is very outreach minded. Our pastor actually encourages us to play secular tunes and play out in clubs. His theory is people who don't come to church or "would never go in a church building" might see us and think, hey if those guys are welcome, I would be too. That's not to say we're out getting wasted and falling down, but if we're on a break and someone comes up to say how much they enjoy the music, we say "thanks, we play every sunday morning too." It's a fine line to walk. And a lot of people who have been in church for a long time think it's hypocritical. However, I've seen more faces saturday night and sunday morning than I can count. People who have turned their backs on a church for this reason or that feel welcome and like they have some common ground with someone before they ever walk in. Becoming like the ______ to reach the ______. I think that's in the book somewhere.

[Jakeboy]

I play in a CHristian Blues band called "Matt & The Testifiers". We willplay anywhere...and we have....I write & choose all our tunes. The message goes from "in-your-face evangelistic" all the way to secular love songs. They all have to be true. God is the Author of truth.

All our stuff has a positive message, is truth-based, has screaming guitar, & a heavy backbeat. I've played bars on Saturday & church on Sunday. We view it as a mission & a way to get the truth out. Plant a seed here, a seed there. We even play "Black Magic Woman"...because it is a true story about a Christian girl.

I see no problem doing this...but when I was much younger in my walk I certainly did so I will not cast stones here.

But to the OP, I thik the requirements put on your friend AS YOU HAVE STATED THEM THUS FAR, are controlling & smack of legalism....but...there may be a reason for it. Past history, getting burned, who knows. It just calls for some investigation.
As someone else said, he knows the score going in...if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to play with that church.

JMO.

Mark

[Wahwax]

As someone stated in my defense, I never said that someone in a bar could not be a Christian. The question is this, does your presence in a bar impact your witness?

Romans 14:21 NIV It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

A strong Christian can handle being in a bar and even having a drink or two without stumbling, but will he make others stumble? And being on stage in church is a leadership role. Hanging out in a bar 8 hours before you are in church is an easy way for the rumors to start flying.

I, myself would have no big issue playing at a bar if they were non-smoking. I can't handle the smoke.

[Hiker]

I would have no problem with an FBI background check for the sake of working around youth or others (nothing to hide, here), but the exclusive contract or similar arrangement would not fly with me.

[ravindave_3600]

Originally Posted by Jakeboy

We even play "Black Magic Woman"...because it is a true story about a Christian girl

???

Originally Posted by Wahwax

A strong Christian can handle being in a bar and even having a drink or two without stumbling, but will he make others stumble?

+ 1; Christian musicians (especially) must remember our faith is not about us, but about the people around us. This responsibility always makes for an interesting balancing act between Amazing Grace and Honky Tonk Women.

Originally Posted by Hiker

I would have no problem with an FBI background check for the sake of working around youth

Me, too. Around here you just about have to agree to be checked out!

[refin]

I wouldn't do it.............unless THEY agreed to cover all the financial loss I would be facing.
And then I still wouldn't do it.