Colleague Critique...

[Detman101]

Greetings,

I would like to request that the members here in this wing of the forums check out and critique my playing in our church band. I am asking this because you all know where I am coming from and have probably been there too.

So please...good, bad and ugly...tell me what you think of my playing and what I can do to improve. I am prepared and prayed up for the harshest of critique and anything you can say can only make me a better player.

The song that we are playing is "He's Able" from this past sunday's service.
I'm using my Squier 51 with a Boss BD-2 "Blues Breaker" pedal going straight into the soundboard. I will be trading this pedal for a Digitech Screaming Blues pedal since they play better with soundboards AND amps...lol. I know already that the overdrive sounds artificial and it's the fault of the BD-2.

The song is located here in my soundclick profile:
http://www.soundclick.com/dm101

God bless,
Dm

[Detman101]

Hmmm....so many views and no comments.

I must be doing great!


=D
Dm

[Dababy]

You have a good ear, you're not overdoing it in my opinion, the only thing I can say is that it's a little repetitive to me. The playing is good, and the sound is actually better than I would expect going straight into the mixer rather than mic'ing an amp. My advice to you is: don't be afraid to play up higher on the neck to switch things around for dynamics etc. Having said that, it's hard for any but the BEST players (of which I am not) to play a song for over 8 minutes without sounding repetitive. Another thing to think of is maybe getting a mult-effect pedal instead of the screaming blues that you were talking about. Something with amp/cab modeling. Then you could start off with that slightly overdriven sound and switch to a little more dirty sound when the song is at it's peak and everybody's singing. Last but not least piece of advice is: play some chords/rhythm work and then do the soloing thing that you have going on.
Sorry for writing a book, but you asked. Remember - I liked it - keep it up!

[Detman101]

Thank you Dababy!! I will take that advice to heart.
I will admit that I avoid playing up higher on the neck because my fingerspeed is not fast enough (to me) to sound good. (But of course, I have to put in the effort or I won't get anything out.)
I have trouble sometimes not repeating my ideas and phrasing. Mainly because I don't have many patterns/phrases that I've come up with and the songs can go on for up to 15 minutes sometimes... I think I will have to "Borrow" some licks/patterns/phrases from some other artists...hehe.

I am also going to look into getting my Zoom 8080 pedalboard back from my cousin. He probably doesn't use it anyway. (Hope he didn't pawn it...) That way I can get all of my amp/pedal models AND my wah effect back.

Thank you for taking the time to give me all the input and advice you have given me. That was just what i was looking for!

Thank you,
Dm

[fuddy]

Yeah, good assessment from Dababy. I'll just add that, while you have a very cool motif going on, think of a song as having a beginning, middle, and end. So definitely keep your cool motif run, but at other times, I suggest that you add some other stuff for variety, like maybe Hendrix-type chords/fills or double stops, instead of single notes all the time. And maybe toward the end, build the dynamic/intensity. Also, it might sound better with the neck pickup, but that's just my opinion. Overall though, I enjoyed it!

[Saxguitar]

First off, great job. I admire people who can play lead, and I didn't hear a sour note anywhere. I agree with Dababy, try playing a little higher on the neck that way your riff in the lower register don't get covered by the rest of the band. You definetly have a very good sense of line and I can tell you know where you are going in doing your playing.

Don't worry about repitition, the audience which probably is filled with people who don't share the musical background you probably do need the repition. My college band director says when improving repition can be good because it allows the listener to analyze what is going on and it makes them enjoy the music better because it almost becomes familiar to them. Repition is a good thing, whenever I improv on my sax I always am repeating ideas I know sound good and build on them from there, trying to improv on the guitar is all greek to me no matter how many scales I learn, but you do it well. Maybe try and put a little variation in the song when it comes to your effects, but hey you are a amazing guitarist and what you played sounded good with the song.

Great Job

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by fuddy

Yeah, good assessment from Dababy. I'll just add that, while you have a very cool motif going on, think of a song as having a beginning, middle, and end. So definitely keep your cool motif run, but at other times, I suggest that you add some other stuff for variety, like maybe Hendrix-type chords/fills or double stops, instead of single notes all the time. And maybe toward the end, build the dynamic/intensity. Also, it might sound better with the neck pickup, but that's just my opinion. Overall though, I enjoyed it!

Oh lordy...he said it....Hendrix...

That guy is a plague on my life...lol. (Him and john mayer) I can't figure out how to get those kind of mellowy sounding doublestop chords like he does. Well, I can do them sometimes but it's like 1 out of 20 tries....
I know that once I can play more like Hendrix I will sound 800 times better, but his technique is soooo hard!! I'm just now able to get that monkey-grip on the neck and pull off my min7 chords with just my thumb and pointer finger!
But all of those Jimi Hendrix inversions and such still elude me. I've watched all the youtube lessons but i think it's something I will have to learn firsthand from a teacher.

I understand the part about the songs having a beginning middle and end but with my church I never know when the end is because songs are improvised all the time. For instance, the song that you all heard ended 2 minutes earlier last week when it was sung. The extended ending wasn't in there last week.
I think that as the song progresses I am going to play higher up on the neck. I think that will go along with the intensity of the song building up towards the end. I know I can do that because I can play most of my scales/runs in 3 places on the neck.

Thank you for the info and analysis. You're helping me become a better player!

=]
Dm

[jarrodmichael]

I listened through my laptop speakers (not great, but it's all I have here right now) but what I heard did sound fine. The other comments seem to be right on track. I'd agree that developing some of the ideas you began more fully would be useful; it seems like you've got the kind of vocalist you could do some call-and-response with as well, or pick out some of their phrases and repeat them back, for variety.

Hendrix was a great player (so were many others) but I think you should approach that with a little caution. Certainly learn some of the techniques that the great players used, but develop your own style in the process - don't worry about playing "more like Hendrix", instead worry about playing more like you and mastering the techniques you need to in order to express yourself fully. Maybe that's what you meant though, in which case ignore what I just said

-jm

[Detman101]

Jarrodmichael,

That is a wonderful idea!! I never thought of repeating back what the singer sang as my phrases. That would GUARANTEE that I would repeat things very seldomly. Hmmm...I will have to practice that a bunch before I have it down pat. She usually sings in areas that are pretty predictable once she starts but I know that it will require jumping around and skipping strings a bit.

Thank you, I will follow that advice and try to learn more so that I can express myself better. Jimi Hendrix just intimidates me like no other. I am not the type that is afraid to play with others, but when I hear people playing his style of his music/technique...something in me quivers and I get nervous to play.

Not scared...just real nervous...lol.

=]
Dm

[TVCaster]

Detman - far better job than I coul do, especially if some of the songs clock in around 15 minutes.

Might I suggest some Steve Cropper to you. He is the master at riffing off the vocal phrasings of the singer. Understated but classic leads and tone. Speaking of tone, my other suggestion is to work on your tone a little, it sounds a little thin to me. Maybe use the neck position pickup (if you aren't) or a little phasing. Something to give it a slightly fatter sound and try hold those notes a little longer - less is more sometimes.

No Jimi in church though. ;)

[still_fiddlin]

I just got around to listening. Very nice.

Ok, some thoughts. I agree with the tone comment (and Steve Cropper!). I'd prefer a cleaner tone, maybe with some compression. Toss in some chords once in a while - I would probably have jumped on the modulation with chords. When the leader is by herself, stretch it out a bit, less notes, but longer. In sections where the choir does a response, I'd go more directly with the choir, either melody or harmony. Not all the time, but once in a while.

Keep on what you're doing though. Good stuff.

[KCKC]

Hey Dettman 101,

Nice job! I had a listen last night. I play a squier 51 also. Love it. I'm not a player by any stretch but have fun none the less. For the leads you're doing you might want to try going with neck pup only and play around the base of the guit neck if that's comfortable for you. then have the sound guy work the eq til you get that round warmer tone!

Here's a link to a tune where I play double stops through the song (Morphin' My Endorphins) on the neck pup. My setup is direct like yours. guit -art cheapie preamp- usb interface.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=902353

I like the tones I can get with the 51.

Good luck and post back!

KC

[SixShooter]

Not bad at all, but it does sounds maybe a little plain. Definitely try using other parts of the neck. I was thinking that some lower notes would sound better than going higher. You could get some good tele sounds in there. Some open string stuff perhaps. The tone seems a touch thin. What pickup(s) are you using here? Bridge? How about some middle position or neck pickup to add fullness? Or a tube amp! Or play with the pedal's tone control. Also you might try to extend your phrases into almost a solo with a counter melody.

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by SixShooter

Not bad at all, but it does sounds maybe a little plain. Definitely try using other parts of the neck. I was thinking that some lower notes would sound better than going higher. You could get some good tele sounds in there. Some open string stuff perhaps. The tone seems a touch thin. What pickup(s) are you using here? Bridge? How about some middle position or neck pickup to add fullness? Or a tube amp! Or play with the pedal's tone control. Also you might try to extend your phrases into almost a solo with a counter melody.

Well, that's the main part of my problem.


But.....I have found the solution to my problem...

Wait, let me post a progress report on my sound after micing the amp and recording that way. Well, I went the way of draping a Microphone over the top of the amp and recording that way. The sound was sooooooo much better!! I boosted my mids as recommended and also played higher up on the neck. The tone was much better but I am still having issues with sound as far as effects are concerned.

I played using my crappy Boss BD-2 and it still sounded like I was playing clean. The only time that the BD-2 sounded like it was affecting my sound was when I played power chords. Needless to say, I will be getting rid of it ASAP in favor of the "Digitech Screamin Blues" pedal, which has a much more effective role with digital amplifiers. The Boss BD-2 works great with my tube amp but I use that one once in a blue moon cause it's so loud.

Now onto my solution/revelation...

In listening to myself playing this past sunday (Yesterday) and getting a few of my co-workers to listen as well, I have come to the conclusion that I need more of an "effect" in my sound to even out the "Twanginess" of my Squier '51 (which is more of a telecaster than anything else). It seems that in using the Boss BD-2 I cannot get it to color my sound with the Overdrive effect unless I'm playing power chords...which isn't always acceptable. If I play single notes it sounds like i'm playing clean...which sounds very "Plucky/Twangy".
So it's not really my playing style that sounds that way...it's the lack of effect of my EFFECTS....lol.

I am going to invest in a new Wah-Wah pedal to add more dynamics to my playing. I have noticed that every musician that I like hearing uses a Wah-Wah pedal even if it's not being actively "rockered" to do the wah effect. Some just use it to change the overall tone of their sound and leave it at one setting (Maybe halfway down/up) so that they sound a certain way without having to tinker with too many things.

I have an old Wah-Wah pedal that my boss gave me along with my "Peavey 240 Artist" amp. It's a National ME-40 Wah-Surf-Volume pedal. It used to work but somethings gone rotten with it and it wont respond.
I would rather fix it if possible as it's vintage gear and worth cashola.

**PICS BELOW**






Thanks everyone,
Dm

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by KCKC

Hey Dettman 101,

Nice job! I had a listen last night. I play a squier 51 also. Love it. I'm not a player by any stretch but have fun none the less. For the leads you're doing you might want to try going with neck pup only and play around the base of the guit neck if that's comfortable for you. then have the sound guy work the eq til you get that round warmer tone!

Here's a link to a tune where I play double stops through the song (Morphin' My Endorphins) on the neck pup. My setup is direct like yours. guit -art cheapie preamp- usb interface.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=902353

I like the tones I can get with the 51.

Good luck and post back!

KC

Awesome KC!! Thank you for sending me that link. Your 51 sounds soooooo good!! I like the neck pickup but I can't get any distortion on mine. I reckon thats because of my BOSS BD-2 which doesn't do good at all with anything besides tube amps. I will have that problem licked as soon as I can get ahold of my next pedal.

Thanks!
Dm

[Detman101]

Well, using the autowah in church this past weekend worked out GREAT!
There are a few songs where it fits in well but my choice in amplifiers has to stabilize.

Saturday - We played out of state for another church in Amelia, VA. Using the Ibanez AW-7 with my Line-6 112 amp on the customized "recto" amp setting sounded GREAT!!! Sadly I didn't get a recording of any of it.

Sunday - Back at our church. I had my little Ibanez 15W amp mic'd. My effects chain went as follows.
Guitar->BOSS BD-2->Ibanez AW-7->Danelectro Reverb->Amp->mic->Soundboard
Here is what it sounded like.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7687386

I don't think that I had the effects pedals in the right order because whenever I clicked the BD-2 and the AW-7 on at the same time the autowah was REALLY sensitive. without the BD-2 in the mix, the Autowah was barely responding. The reverb pedal was the only one that I left on constantly. I switched between the AW-7 and BD-2 depending on the song.

It will definitely require some fine tuning but so far I like it a LOT!!


=]
Dm

[GoldieLocks]

You're definitely better than most church guitar players I've witnessed. But thats not really a compliment.

I've listened to your recording 3x over the last week. I don't want to throw my opinion out without some serious thought. So my thoughts are:

A guitar player is only as good as his chords and rhythm. Even lead guitarists should be thinking about how their notes affect the chords and push pull of the rhythm. Your playing didn't do any of this for me.

rhythmically your church band was pretty chaotic. The POOR drummer, I don't know who he was playing with? Everyone was off in their own time zone. Maybe once did I hear the whole band really groove together. Alot of that was your singers fault. The keyboardist had the right idea I thought. the bass player was very distracting. I don't think they ever held the song together. Enough about the band...back to you.

This is just a personal thing: But your playing sounded very timid and insecure. Play like a man. Show that you are totally in control of your instrument. Make it cry, sing, Yell, comfort people, and laugh. Music is all about emotions and stories. every song should call on you take people on a journey. (Listen to some Pink Floyd for this!)

Your guitar playing should be helping the singer get the song across. You occasionally got in the way of the singer. But thats not always your fault...the singer was out of control at times.
I try to always play around the singer. Never on top of them. Unless its a big buildup at the end.

Your at the point now where you need a really good tube amp. Something that will allow you to make your guitar scream and sing. Even a Fender Hotrod Deluxe would get you there...or a Vox amp. THere's 100's more. If you're serious about music then make this a priority in your life.

I'm curious who your influences are? I didn't hear any from your clip. No Santana or Clapton or Beck or Carlton or Page. You should really immerse yourself in some of your favourite players to get up to the next level. THen you can spend your life getting beyond these influences. Just something to think about.

Well thats it! Its okay to ignore everything I just said. I'm very analytical. You should see how I critique my own playing and band. Its NASTY but productive. Good luck!

[klasaine]

Cool man. You remind me of Junior Murvin (Marvin?) and Al Anderson on those 'live' Bob Marley records, especially the wah tone and approach on the 1st tune.

I'll echo GoldieLocks about the chords though. The 2nd tune has a couple of pretty cool changes in it that I think you need to nail.

Other than that, keep it up - it sounds good.

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

You're definitely better than most church guitar players I've witnessed. But thats not really a compliment.

Uh...thanks hehe.

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I've listened to your recording 3x over the last week. I don't want to throw my opinion out without some serious thought. So my thoughts are:

A guitar player is only as good as his chords and rhythm. Even lead guitarists should be thinking about how their notes affect the chords and push pull of the rhythm. Your playing didn't do any of this for me.

Well this is part of my problem. I don't know the chords for the songs that are played in my church because they don't exist. A lot of the songs were made by the lead singer/songstress and she sings them differently EVERY TIME! It's maddening! I never know what to expect when I play in church because it's always different. Everyone there i self-trained and we have no real leadership when it comes to the Musical area. They just cancelled rehearsal AGAIN for the 3rd time in a row which makes it 2 months now that we haven't practiced anything at all...yet we have scheduled dates that we have to perform at other churches!? The only thing that I can do is improvise and try to intercept the random key changes that they like to do.

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

rhythmically your church band was pretty chaotic. The POOR drummer, I don't know who he was playing with? Everyone was off in their own time zone. Maybe once did I hear the whole band really groove together. Alot of that was your singers fault. The keyboardist had the right idea I thought. the bass player was very distracting. I don't think they ever held the song together. Enough about the band...back to you.

Lol...guess what? The Bass player.....that is actually the keyboardist!! He plays one bass keyboard and one regular keyboard stacked on top of each other!! He is used to playing by himself and being the only instrument in the church so he doesn't know how to leave room for other players. I try to work around what he is doing but like I said...we have absolutely no guidance or adult leadership in our church when it comes to the music.

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

This is just a personal thing: But your playing sounded very timid and insecure. Play like a man. Show that you are totally in control of your instrument. Make it cry, sing, Yell, comfort people, and laugh. Music is all about emotions and stories. every song should call on you take people on a journey. (Listen to some Pink Floyd for this!)

Well, It is timid and insecure sounding because I don't ever know what to expect when it comes to playing in church. It's hard to be bold when you never know what kinda curveball is coming at you. I stay in the "Middle of the road" so that I can duck left or right...if you know what I mean...

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

Your guitar playing should be helping the singer get the song across. You occasionally got in the way of the singer. But thats not always your fault...the singer was out of control at times.
I try to always play around the singer. Never on top of them. Unless its a big buildup at the end.

Well, I think know a bit about playing around the singer...I think. What you mean is like...when the singer sings a bit then stops, that's where I would normally play a little riff/lick to work with the singer...right??
Well, the problem there is that the keyboardist always rushes in and tries to put a fill in that spot. As I said earlier, he doesn't play well with others and has never been taught the roles of the seperate instruments in a band. I have been in a band before and got schooled on staying in my lane. Our keyboardist believes he owns the entire highway and the driveway to your house too...lolol!! A lot of times, the only way that I can be heard is if I play WHILE the singer is singing...which is wrong, I know...but it's the only way I can avoid the keyboardist.

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

Your at the point now where you need a really good tube amp. Something that will allow you to make your guitar scream and sing. Even a Fender Hotrod Deluxe would get you there...or a Vox amp. THere's 100's more. If you're serious about music then make this a priority in your life.

I have a really great and loud tube amp that is soooo awesome, but I don't dare bring it to chuch because someone may knock it over or try to play with it and blow the tubes or even worse...the amp. It's an 80s model Peavey Artist 240 that my boss gave me and it's concert loud but...it's a tube amp...

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I'm curious who your influences are? I didn't hear any from your clip. No Santana or Clapton or Beck or Carlton or Page. You should really immerse yourself in some of your favourite players to get up to the next level. THen you can spend your life getting beyond these influences. Just something to think about.

Wow, I don't think I have any. There are people that I want to play like but I can't because of limiting factors like:
1. "my guitar neck being too thin" IE: Jimi Hendrix,
2. "I don't have the right pickups" IE: Adam Jones (Tool)
3. "I don't have the blues" IE: John Mayer
I don't know of any players that I can even come close to playing like because my fingers are so slow. I mostly play old southern slow blues when I do try to play. I try to sound like Albert King....lol. I need a real person that I can watch and emulate. On my own, I stay too "Middle of the road" due to my own fear of failure.

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

Well thats it! Its okay to ignore everything I just said. I'm very analytical. You should see how I critique my own playing and band. Its NASTY but productive. Good luck!

Thank you so much for your insight. don't feel bad about being harsh, this will help me to become a better guitarist and you better believe that I'll remember your help when I finally make something of myself.

God bless,
Dm

[getbent]

Recording live is always a revelation.

I listened to the song 2 times.... so, I may have missed some things... First, it sounds like the folks in the church were into it, so, that is the goal and you hit that one.

The difficult thing about playing in combos is that you come together, learn some tunes, it sounds pretty good, you play for a public (or church) and you feel good about it. But, you can sense some problems. So, you record it and listen for what is right and and what needs to be cleaned up.

In this one, it is too loose... the tune is going too many directions and the directions are not being driven by the melody or the lead voice. The lead voice has some pitch struggles... but more importantly she appears to be a little lost as to the melody in some points and I think that causes some of the pitch problems. Rule 1: Everyone should know the song and that starts with the melody and time.

I don't know how many times your band has played this song, but it clearly has some really cool stops and starts that a couple of folks are trying to play, but the others 'smear' through it....

It would be good to rehearse that tune and break down the places where you have stops, starts, walkdowns, walkups and holds. The production value of the song would really pop and instantly your listeners would say 'that sounds great'.

In this song the piano player is kind of playing the role of drummer. That can be a good thing, but here, the drummer (was there a bass player?) and the bass player or the piano player's left hand should be establishing and creating the rhythm.

The guitar playing: My favorite guitar players who just own this style are Curtis Mayfield, Pops Staples and Teenie Hodges. I'd sure like to hear that guitar on the front pickup, some double and triple stops and some soulful bends that demonstrate that you are listening to and feeling the singer while expanding the rhythm of the song.

If there are to be repeated phrases, they should be repeated in a cadence not unlike what the choral singers do. The guitar part here should serve two purposes: 1) support the song rhythmically 2) be added flavor and richness to the melody and harmony 'fleshing' out the juicy emotional bits.

I enjoyed the song and would have loved being at the service where you played. I think you have a solid start on what could be some really really memorable music.

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by getbent

Recording live is always a revelation.

I listened to the song 2 times.... so, I may have missed some things... First, it sounds like the folks in the church were into it, so, that is the goal and you hit that one.

Thank you so much!!

Originally Posted by getbent

The difficult thing about playing in combos is that you come together, learn some tunes, it sounds pretty good, you play for a public (or church) and you feel good about it. But, you can sense some problems. So, you record it and listen for what is right and and what needs to be cleaned up.

The sad thing is that perfecting the sound is not the priority of the choir I guess.... We have no real leadership or anyone to do what you mentioned. So I just practice to what was recorded at home and the next sunday try to play better. But no one else practices...They have even been cancelling choir rehearsal lately for other stupid things like movie night!?!?! I mean, come on...what's more important?

Originally Posted by getbent

In this one, it is too loose... the tune is going too many directions and the directions are not being driven by the melody or the lead voice. The lead voice has some pitch struggles... but more importantly she appears to be a little lost as to the melody in some points and I think that causes some of the pitch problems. Rule 1: Everyone should know the song and that starts with the melody and time.

The thing is that everyone knows "He's Able" but they always seem to change it from the original version that we learned. It's never the same way twice..and while that's great for everything else in this world. It sucks for playing music.

Originally Posted by getbent

I don't know how many times your band has played this song, but it clearly has some really cool stops and starts that a couple of folks are trying to play, but the others 'smear' through it....
It would be good to rehearse that tune and break down the places where you have stops, starts, walkdowns, walkups and holds. The production value of the song would really pop and instantly your listeners would say 'that sounds great'.

I will admit that I sometimes get lost when they decide to repeat the chorus 4 times in a row just because they want to when the artist version of the song only does it once. If our church had sheet music that it went by...we could really do some professional stuff.

Originally Posted by getbent

In this song the piano player is kind of playing the role of drummer. That can be a good thing, but here, the drummer (was there a bass player?) and the bass player or the piano player's left hand should be establishing and creating the rhythm.

Well, the Piano player is also a drummer and when there is no drummer he asks one of the deacons to play the drums. I believe that is one of the deacons playing in both of the songs on my soundclick page. The keyboardist plays two keyboards stacked one-on-top-of-the-other. One for all the bass you hear, and the lower one for the melody notes you hear.

Originally Posted by getbent

The guitar playing: My favorite guitar players who just own this style are Curtis Mayfield, Pops Staples and Teenie Hodges. I'd sure like to hear that guitar on the front pickup, some double and triple stops and some soulful bends that demonstrate that you are listening to and feeling the singer while expanding the rhythm of the song.

I will look them up on youtube and see if I can copy some of their styles. Also, since I figured out that my autowah should be the first pedal in the chain everything works a LOT better. I will be playing on my neck pickup from now on like I used to before I got pedals. The sound is a lot better now! On my youtube page I have a few videos where I play with backing tracks on my neck pickup and it sounds worlds better! Http://www.youtube/detman101

Originally Posted by getbent

If there are to be repeated phrases, they should be repeated in a cadence not unlike what the choral singers do. The guitar part here should serve two purposes: 1) support the song rhythmically 2) be added flavor and richness to the melody and harmony 'fleshing' out the juicy emotional bits.

Wow...I have no idea what you mean. Not that you're not telling me right, I just need to see an example of how it's done. I learn best by watching (unfortunately), my head is too noisy to try and visualize much.

Originally Posted by getbent

I enjoyed the song and would have loved being at the service where you played. I think you have a solid start on what could be some really really memorable music.

Wow, that's the best compliment that I've gotten in a long time. Thank you so much, the fact that you would be willing to listen to us play live warms my heart.

Thank you,
Dm

[jarrodmichael]

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

rhythmically your church band was pretty chaotic. The POOR drummer, I don't know who he was playing with? Everyone was off in their own time zone. Maybe once did I hear the whole band really groove together. Alot of that was your singers fault.

Hold on - just to clarify - the rhythm section should be providing consistent time underneath the singer no matter what the singer is doing (or not doing). That's the rhythm section's job, and if they're not doing that, it's their fault, not the singer's. If they have trouble staying in time, ask them to practice with a metronome. Lots and lots.

I do agree that the band wasn't really what you'd call "tight" But since the OP wasn't functioning as part of the rhythm section here, we can't really hold any of their problems against him

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

Your guitar playing should be helping the singer get the song across. You occasionally got in the way of the singer. But thats not always your fault...the singer was out of control at times.
I try to always play around the singer. Never on top of them. Unless its a big buildup at the end.

Yeah - on another listen, I think this is right on. Stay out of her way unless there's a good reason. What you don't play is just as important as what you do play, and this is one of those times.

-jm

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by jarrodmichael

Hold on - just to clarify - the rhythm section should be providing consistent time underneath the singer no matter what the singer is doing (or not doing). That's the rhythm section's job, and if they're not doing that, it's their fault, not the singer's. If they have trouble staying in time, ask them to practice with a metronome. Lots and lots.

I do agree that the band wasn't really what you'd call "tight" But since the OP wasn't functioning as part of the rhythm section here, we can't really hold any of their problems against him

HEhe...whew...thanks!!

Originally Posted by jarrodmichael

Yeah - on another listen, I think this is right on. Stay out of her way unless there's a good reason. What you don't play is just as important as what you do play, and this is one of those times.

-jm

Understood. I will definitely try to put my licks in where they should and not play all the time. Thank you.
Man, I wish I could hear what you all would have done while playing with that song. That would be so awesome!

=]
Dm

[jarrodmichael]

Originally Posted by Detman101

The thing is that everyone knows "He's Able" but they always seem to change it from the original version that we learned. It's never the same way twice..and while that's great for everything else in this world. It sucks for playing music.

I wouldn't say that. I'd at least quantify it a bit. Look at the great traditions that blues and jazz have given us. When it's used intentionally and purposefully, that kind of improvisation can be powerful. It lets you grow and express yourself in new ways. On the other hand, if the reason you never play it the same way is because someone gets lost or can't follow the changes or isn't paying attention, that's totally different

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by jarrodmichael

I wouldn't say that. I'd at least quantify it a bit. Look at the great traditions that blues and jazz have given us. When it's used intentionally and purposefully, that kind of improvisation can be powerful. It lets you grow and express yourself in new ways. On the other hand, if the reason you never play it the same way is because someone gets lost or can't follow the changes or isn't paying attention, that's totally different

I realize the benefits of improvisation, and it does help me be able to play with anyone anywhere but sometimes...you just want things to sound the same when you play them...ya know?

I think that the main reason that we never play the songs the same way twice is that it all depends on how the singers are feeling or what key that they want to sing in that particular morning...lol. Everyone has to adjust to them.


Dm

[GoldieLocks]

I think its true that your only as good as your worst band member. Any musician is capable of ruining the groove for everyone (unless its the quietest instrument).
I think its almost impossible to ignore a singer with bad timing. The worst is a drummer with bad timing. You are legally allowed to shoot these people.

A very good musician I know told me years ago to STOP playing with bad musicians. Enough exposure to bad musicians will ruin your timing, intonation, dynamics etc. Its a dangerous thing. We don't always have a choice in this matter - but we should be aware of the damage it causes.

[TVCaster]

Detman101

Just a quick thought, something that popped into my head this morning after I’d read parts this thread with my morning coffee. You know how it is; you’re running the water to shave and some inspiration hits.

Here’s my comment and then a question for you. If I’ve read things correctly and I apologize now if I haven’t, you mention that your boss gave you a very nice tube amp. To me that speaks volumes about you. Your boss must think very highly of you not only as an employee but as a person and musician as well. More than likely the enthusiasm that you have for your music has touched his or her heart so much that they want to pass along their own love for music in a very tangible way.

Now my question for you, while your boss gave you this amp, who provided it to you and for what purpose? If you playing it in the church benefits the praise group as whole, why are you ”hiding it under your bushel” so to speak? Some times the hardest thing for us to learn is to let go, especially of things that are transitory and material.

Something I learned over 20 years ago when I use to get together with guys from work and “jam” was to actually play less. Since I was the one with the guitar and amp I played lead, or at least I tried to. When I learned that one note played well could say more than six notes it was a real revelation. Others had room to be heard, I learned to step back and listen to others, to find a grove more than a meandering psychedelic blues solo, it was really fun, because let’s face it there are only so many true Eric Clapton’s, B.B. King’s, Jimi Hendrix’s or even Lincoln Brewster’s and I’m not one of them.

Think about it – less can be more. Let the singer’s sing and the drummer drum, and then find your place. Be it rhythm or a riff, but back off on trying to carry the melody along with the singer.

Good thread

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by TVCaster

Detman101

Just a quick thought, something that popped into my head this morning after I’d read parts this thread with my morning coffee. You know how it is; you’re running the water to shave and some inspiration hits.

Here’s my comment and then a question for you. If I’ve read things correctly and I apologize now if I haven’t, you mention that your boss gave you a very nice tube amp. To me that speaks volumes about you. Your boss must think very highly of you not only as an employee but as a person and musician as well. More than likely the enthusiasm that you have for your music has touched his or her heart so much that they want to pass along their own love for music in a very tangible way.

Now my question for you, while your boss gave you this amp, who provided it to you and for what purpose? If you playing it in the church benefits the praise group as whole, why are you ”hiding it under your bushel” so to speak? Some times the hardest thing for us to learn is to let go, especially of things that are transitory and material.

Well, honestly...I'm scared of taking it to church because it is my first (and only) tube amp...and it will be considered vintage gear in another year. I do not know how to fix tube amps (yet) so I am very leery of someone in church plugging something into it and messing it up. I very much do not want to take that chance.

I really do appreciate my boss giving me all of this vintage gear but until I can repair it on my own, I don't want to break any of it.

Originally Posted by TVCaster

Something I learned over 20 years ago when I use to get together with guys from work and “jam” was to actually play less. Since I was the one with the guitar and amp I played lead, or at least I tried to. When I learned that one note played well could say more than six notes it was a real revelation. Others had room to be heard, I learned to step back and listen to others, to find a grove more than a meandering psychedelic blues solo, it was really fun, because let’s face it there are only so many true Eric Clapton’s, B.B. King’s, Jimi Hendrix’s or even Lincoln Brewster’s and I’m not one of them.

Think about it – less can be more. Let the singer’s sing and the drummer drum, and then find your place. Be it rhythm or a riff, but back off on trying to carry the melody along with the singer.

Good thread

I have been given this advice by others in this thread and I got a chance to apply it this saturday. I went to an acoustic guitar jam session in VA for another website I am a member of and I played lead, but only played in between the singing. I think it worked out great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG0BMZgAps4

You can just barely hear me playing lead licks in between the verses.

Thank you for the advice and info.

UPDATE:

I took my Line-6 Spider1 amp to church this past sunday and played with it instead of my Ibanez practice amp. I really didn't get to notice a difference besides having more headroom with the Line-6 amp. With the Ibanez amp I have to turn the volume up more...that's the only difference. The sounds were the same (all effects managed tone...both amps on clean settings) with the exception of the volume.

I think I will stick with playing the Practice amp at church and just mic'ing it. since there's no real difference anyway. It's not like I can turn up the Line-6 loud enough to really rock out...lol.


Dm