Dirty little secret...Performance Tracks!!!!

[JKSteger]

I found out this dirty little secret from a buddy of mine that plays for one of the P&W bands at a local church. They have 1 acoustic, 2 electric, bass and drums as their lineup. I've been to the church before and on some songs a keyboard or synth was used for the intro but I didn't see any keyboard.

Later in conversations the topic came up about the keyboard and how they get such a "full" sound with the 2 electrics and Acoustic. And when I mean "full sound" I mean like multi-layer, studio recordings! And how they never seemed to hit any bad notes...ever! He said that they use "performance tracks". Basically they have the set list for each Sunday and either use the CD recording of the original or the P&W leader records the keys, guitar and bass during the week then layers the recording for a full sound. The sound guys (tech team) basically plays the recording and mixes the house band into the output!

No wonder they sound so good!

So,
Does anyone else P&W band/team do anything similar? Let me hear you if you do and what do you think about this "playing along with a recording" idea.

J:

[guitarzan13]

They are going to Hell!!! Just kidding....IMO that is cheap and cheezy..........I'd love to be sitting there when the track crashes.....

[SatelliteOrders]

Our music pastor wants to use mixable pre-recorded tracks to allow the worship band to play on choir specials. The track needs a trumpet? We don't have one -- mix it in. Also an electric guitar break? Learn it, Tony. But playing along w/ the CD? That's ... just ... I don't have words.

[gitold]

I was on a worship team and they always played music before the service through the P.A.
and when someone sang a song ( I called it Christian Kareoke).The worship team pailed in comparison.We also hired people to run the music program and it was always some guy looking to make it in the Christian music business.They never lasted very long so there was a large turnover.I go to a church now where we do all our own music, even if it's not perfect it's us.

[JKSteger]

I'm not sure how they mix it with the band but this is one of thoes "high dollar", multi-media churches, stage, video screens, stage lights sync to music, sound area is surrounded by numerous Apple-Mac screens, etc. You think your at a big name concert there.

[jarrodmichael]

Yuck. Double-yuck.

I've played out with people who do something similar. (Fewer musicians = more pay per musician.) Run an iPod/laptop/CD/whatever through the PA with a bunch of background tracks and play over it ... instant "reliable" rhythm section ... it almost works until the track skips, cord comes unplugged, or any other thing that can go wrong. Just like guitarzan13 said. Plus, it sucks to be one of the musicians playing along with it. There is no "feel", no "energy", no nothing, just an empty "music product". Gimme real live music played by real live musicians every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

-jm

[Southern Ill Electrics]

If someone has a lovely voice it'll sound great acompanied by only a horse-hair broom.....I'm cool with a vocalist singing to some pre-recorded music......If we know the song we give them the option of us playing or the CD......

But what is total hokey and a complete sham is when they bring instruments...usually big dollar things and then pretend to play them....I watch one gentleman pretend to blow harp for about 3 songs and I could not help but laugh and then go busy myself up in the sound booth......I just don't get it.....

What upsets me is how some of those in the pews don't realize it and you hear the comments about how proffesional sounding and how great they were......

Oh well,All for HIM!!!

[giantslayer]

I've seen that a couple times at professional concerts. Once for Kutless to put in that piano part for "sea of faces," and there was another band I thought might have been putting in an extra guitar track here or there. It wasn't on the level they were doing, though, because none of those were replacing what the musicians on stage were playing.

As far as what they are doing, it disgusts me on several levels. As a musician, I hate the idea of lip-syncing with recorded stuff. I know how to play my instrument and if I can't cut it live, I'd sooner step off the stage than pretend to be playing. Where is their pride as musicians?

Second, at that point, worship officially turns into a performance. This is not a performance for God, but for people. God isn't interested in a perfect polished performance, especially not to the point of using pre-recorded tracks. God wants it to be real and He is looking for hearts that are seeking Him.

Third, there is no room to improvise. This doesn't even have to be ultra-spiritual. IMHO, a good band can flow and change things up on the spot and do it together and make it sound good. It could be on a whim of the moment or maybe they see that the crowd is really getting into a song. For a worship band, this becomes even more important because the Holy Spirit can also lead in different directions. But with a pre-recorded setup like that, if God wants to camp out on one song a little longer, too bad. If He wants to do a song they hadn't planned, too bad. If everyone is dancing and having a blast on one song the last time through the chorus and want to keep going, too bad. If they just feel like rocking out and changing things up, not necessarily at the Spirit's direction, they can't.

Sorry if I may sound like I'm coming down too hard on that worship leader. I'm not saying to judge him or leave that church. For me, I've tasted too much real worship to like something like that. It's like I've had real food and twinkies don't do it anymore. At my church, we are like the polar opposite of that. We used to have rehearsals and song lists like most places, but as we have continued to REALLY seek God and allow Him to take over our services and schedules, He kept moving us away from that. We've had services where we just did 2 hours of worship. We try to follow His leading and go where He wants to go. We have been to wonderful places of intimacy in worship that most people won't take the time to get to and, if they get there, move on too quickly. I can guarantee you they won't get within 10 miles of those places with those tracks.

That's why that "performance tracks" thing disgusts me. Not only does it put worship into a tiny little box and tell God He has to get in the box if He wants to be in the worship, but it also prevents the band and congregation from being able to move in the direction of allowing God to direct worship. It is a process. It took us years to get to where we are now. As long as they are playing with those tracks every week, they are stuck exactly where they are.

[JKSteger]

Agree with everyone. Now just so everyone knows, the musicians ARE playing, they are just mixed in with the pre-recorded stuff under them to give a big, full sound. Kind of like playing with a "computer" as another guitarist. I still think it's fake on some level.

Also these guys play with click tracks, etc. It really feels like a performance and not a worship setting. It gets people in the door though. I must say that the pastor rocks at this church.

J:

[62Caster]

A couple buddies of mine are in a P&W band that uses backing tracks. Mostly for horns/strings, and other things they can't play live. Sometimes it gets funny thought; there was a time when one of the 4 singers was sick, so what did they do? Play his recorded voice =).

[Robbied_216]

I don't regard this as "lip syncing"..here's my view

I oversee a children's praise and worship program, and the fact is that our studio albums don't sound quite like the live versions on a weekend. One session we did, had over 100 tracks of just sounds and layers and fun stuff before there was even any vocal parts....you can't re-create that live. We do have screens and the multimedia capabilities, so I want to utilise it where I can.

What I want to do is look at using something like Ableton so that way some of the pre recorded elements can be introduced live. This isn't like playing along to a CD, as the structure and layout can be changed on the fly by a keyboardist / drummer / whoever has a free hand to trigger the different parts. Its not there to put vocal parts in the mix, or main instrumentation, but things like claps and shakers, and whistles and other fun stuff that just sits under the band...

I think that would be cool. I wouldn't have main vocal melodies or harmonies coming off the tracks, or even any main rhythm instrument parts or solo's.

So, thats how I feel about tracks....(didn't really help anyone ......SORRY!!!!)

[teleftcaster]

Sigh...

[PraiseCaster]

Milli-Vanilli Praise and Worship?

Oi-Vai!

[emiller45]

Regardless of the sentiment expressed in this post, "tracks" are used frequently in Christian music, perhaps more than any other genre. When I was recording Christian artists providing tracks (sans vocals) of the recordings was part of the package.

So to all of the purists, good on you, but don't get overly frustrated with the idea of using tracks. They have been around a long time and will probably outlast all of us.

[gstrat59]

Greetings to all, I am a newbie here and ran across this thread.
I have been using some backing tracks in our small church, I agree there can be some pitfalls that can come with using these tracks but for my situation it seems to work out ok. The primary reason for using the tracks is the lack of musicians in my area (small town out in the middle of Texas Panhandle) I do record my own backing tracks even going so far as to include imperfections and subtal mistakes, I dont use these tracks exclusivly as they do leave you to follow whats there and not have the options of extending the song or doing extra chorus ect, most of the songs I record this way is the more upbeat PW and then the quieter worship is done on my keyboard or acoustic guitar. I pray that I have the same anointing as a musician whether it is played live or pre-recorded and that would be manifest during times of worship.

[Royal Tele]

Originally Posted by giantslayer

I've seen that a couple times at professional concerts. Once for Kutless to put in that piano part for "sea of faces," and there was another band I thought might have been putting in an extra guitar track here or there. It wasn't on the level they were doing, though, because none of those were replacing what the musicians on stage were playing.

As far as what they are doing, it disgusts me on several levels. As a musician, I hate the idea of lip-syncing with recorded stuff. I know how to play my instrument and if I can't cut it live, I'd sooner step off the stage than pretend to be playing. Where is their pride as musicians?

Second, at that point, worship officially turns into a performance. This is not a performance for God, but for people. God isn't interested in a perfect polished performance, especially not to the point of using pre-recorded tracks. God wants it to be real and He is looking for hearts that are seeking Him.

Third, there is no room to improvise. This doesn't even have to be ultra-spiritual. IMHO, a good band can flow and change things up on the spot and do it together and make it sound good. It could be on a whim of the moment or maybe they see that the crowd is really getting into a song. For a worship band, this becomes even more important because the Holy Spirit can also lead in different directions. But with a pre-recorded setup like that, if God wants to camp out on one song a little longer, too bad. If He wants to do a song they hadn't planned, too bad. If everyone is dancing and having a blast on one song the last time through the chorus and want to keep going, too bad. If they just feel like rocking out and changing things up, not necessarily at the Spirit's direction, they can't.

Sorry if I may sound like I'm coming down too hard on that worship leader. I'm not saying to judge him or leave that church. For me, I've tasted too much real worship to like something like that. It's like I've had real food and twinkies don't do it anymore. At my church, we are like the polar opposite of that. We used to have rehearsals and song lists like most places, but as we have continued to REALLY seek God and allow Him to take over our services and schedules, He kept moving us away from that. We've had services where we just did 2 hours of worship. We try to follow His leading and go where He wants to go. We have been to wonderful places of intimacy in worship that most people won't take the time to get to and, if they get there, move on too quickly. I can guarantee you they won't get within 10 miles of those places with those tracks.

That's why that "performance tracks" thing disgusts me. Not only does it put worship into a tiny little box and tell God He has to get in the box if He wants to be in the worship, but it also prevents the band and congregation from being able to move in the direction of allowing God to direct worship. It is a process. It took us years to get to where we are now. As long as they are playing with those tracks every week, they are stuck exactly where they are.

+1!!!!!! I was scrolling down ready to type up the same thing. But here it is already! Worship is not a performance. Period. The moment you move into "making sure everybody sounds as good as the recording", then you've lost focus on what really matters--who you're worshiping.

[scooteraz]

I have no problem with performance tracks for backing kids groups, sometimes for individuals and for small churches that cannot put together a P&W team. But, it seems to me that it is sort of the equivalent of a pre-recorded sermon. Just has a yuck factor that I can't quite get past, except in VERY limited circumstances.

[tom grossheider]

Our kids choirs rehearsed to CD tracks, then the live band played it for the performance. When it got complicated with schedules for the musicians they went to using the CD tracks, it was much easier for the kids as that's what they rehearsed with. As far as a worship service, I personally don't care for using tracks, as it seems to place the importance of musical performance above the reason for worship in the first place. Without knowing the hearts of those who makes those decisions, it would be wrong for anyone to judge their motives. Trust that they are doing it all for the right reasons, and that we do as well. As far as our Sunday worship team, we have never used tracks, and the big Christmas and Easter concerts we use an approx 25 piece orchestra with the choir. Each to their own.

[psychotelepathic]

Is this church in Nashville :)

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by psychotelepathic

Is this church in Nashville :)

Maybe it is the Milli Vanilli house of worship.....

[surfco]

Originally Posted by scooteraz

Maybe it is the Milli Vanilli house of worship.....

LOL!!!!

[broadcaster]

Sounds like an incident of "instrument syncing" to me, LOL.

[TelecasterSam]

I sure wouldn't enjoy that..........playing along or sitting and listening. I can see using a backing track for a song now and then if the band can't quite handle it, but don't pretend to play along with it. There is no point. Go sit in the front pew and take a break!