The Good The Bad The Ugly

[Saxguitar]

Man I had one of the best expiriences a few weeks ago in Worship, one of the orginal members of me churches praise band came back for his vacation(why in the world he came to Michigan instead of someplace nice is beyone me) but anyway when he walked in the door he was carrying a gig bag. I sat down and began to tune up the Ibanez Artcore I am borrowing from another church member and then out of nowhere this guy whips out a all original 72 Strat . He sat down and immedietly started warming up and playing like he used to. He was a amazing lead player with perfect pitch and could solo over anything. While we were running through the set he kept lifting it up to his ears so he could hear what he was playing, then he looked at me and asked if he could play the Semi-Hollowbody Ibanez I was playing so he could hear what he was playing, I said yes so I got to trade guitars for the service and got to play one heck of a Strat. That is the good part.

Now for the Bad, immedietly after he left to go home with that beautiful strat the PW leader came to me and said "man I miss having him on the team." Don't we all. So lately she has been looking at me and trying to get me to play lead, the only problem is that I don't know how and next thing I know I walked into praise team practice this week ready to just keep strumming and low and behold she tells me I am not playing chords this week but that I have to play lead so we can break in the new distortion pedal she bought that should make the sound guys happy, they don't even like my guitars clean sound but oh well no one argues with the PW leader, and I like a little distortion.

Here is the Ugly part, since I don't know how to play lead I am wigging out and stressing over this and a ten page research paper I have to do for college. Can someone offer me some tips on how to play lead, maybe some advice on what not to do, or even some websites I could go on and learn to play for free with minimal downloading. I am really stressing out because I stink at all things improve on my sax let alone on the guitar. Please offer any advice possible it will be much appreciated because right now I

[mrSlush50]

Just start with basic pentatonic scale stuff. Keep it simple and don't stop playing chords. If you're leader wants lead, YOU CAN do that. Find an open spot in the song and play a couple of notes from a scale in the proper key. Remember you're not playing rock n' roll. It's P&W. Remember also that there is a difference between playing lead and playing solos. Here is a link to get you started http://www.guitar-dreams.com/guitarl...ssonid-13.html

You can also do a google search for "pentatonic guitar scale" or something like that, and find all sorts of good stuff. Start there and build your repertoire on that. It's not the only way to play lead, but it is the simplest and most common.

And don't worry if you don't sound like what's on the CD or like your friend. (Also it sounds like he would be a great resource. Maybe give him a call and see what he says.)

[Saxguitar]

Thanks alot for that link, I have been there before and I know the first form of the Minor Pentatonic Scale and I know the blues scale that revolves around it but I have never seen the second form. I can play the first form of the scales in my sleep because I have played them so much, the problem is that whenever I begin to play them they just don't sound like they fit to well, I ment to talk to the guy who owned the strat but when he came back he came to our Baptist church while his wife went to the Catholic church she used to attend. He had to leave quick because he had to go pick her up then they had to hurry so they could get back to Virginia so he could get to his job on Monday. If he was still in this area I would talk to him but he lives way over in Virginia and no one has his contacts.
Will the minor pentatonic scale only work on songs wrote in minor keys or will they also work in songs written in major keys. My problem is that I know the notes and everything for the first four or five frets but once it gets to something like the ninth fret of the G string I have start counting my halfsteps. I guess I just need a little more fretboard knowledge.

[mrSlush50]

the same scale will work for both major and minor. it just depends on where you start. try a sliding scale like this in E:

e----------------------------12-14s16-16s14-12---------------------------
B----------------------12-14-------------------14-12---------------------
G--------------9-11s13-------------------------------13s11-9-------------
D---------9-11-----------------------------------------------11-9--------
A--7-9s11---------------------------------------------------------11s9-7-
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice the note I started on, 7th fret 5th string is an E, my root (tonic) note. Notice also that every fifth (penta) note played is an E. Hence, PENTA-TONIC. (Sorry if I'm oversimplifying or telling you things you already know.) So for a lead part for a song in key of E, find the spot you want to play in then grab a section of this scale that starts and (more importantly) ends on the root note and play it in tempo. That can function as a lead line on its own. You can then start adding variation and variety from there.

EDIT: Ok something about what I just wrote doesn't seems quite right to me. Can someone with more music theory knowledge tell me if all that is technically correct? Sax: it should work just the same, even if I haven't explained it correctly.

[jbmando]

I feel that I should say something which is not the answer you were looking for. I know I'm an old guy, but I have about 13 years experience as a church musician and since last February I have been playing for the best P&W leader I have ever met.

I know that there is probably a lot more to the story, but somehow, I don't think forcing a team member to attempt a style of playing that he is not yet comfortable or familiar with is God-honoring.

What I have learned under our new leader is that it isn't about making the sound guys happy, it's about leading the congregation closer to the Lord. The people in the seats should be where the emphasis is, not the players and singers and not the sound guys. They don't like your guitar's clean sound? What part of your sound do you think God does not like?

Clearly conveying the text of the song and the creation of a worshipful mood should be what they strive for. It's called "Praise and Worship" for a reason. It isn't a concert, your team is doing a ministry to the congregation. My advice is practice what you do know, add in as much as you feel comfortable with and pray that you will be honoring the Lord with your playing. God knows what all of our talents and limitations are and He does not expect more from us than we can deliver, and the person responsible for leading others in the worship of God certainly should not expect it either.

I am sorry if this doesn't seem to help you with your stress, but I am praying for the best outcome for everybody involved in your church's P&W team.

[buddywayne]

jbmando, you speak with much wisdom. I will also pray for the right outcome.

[RodeoTex]

My fake lead playing:
Keep fingering the chords but just pick single notes, sometimes twosies. It makes it a little more realistic if you use barre chords way up the neck - it sounds like the short notes of leads.

I know this is too elementary to even be considered beginning lead but it has gotten me out of jams a couple of times. With a little practice it is even passable and palletable.
Good luck to ya.

[mrSlush50]

jbmando: I actually had the same initial thought. It does seem a little strange, at least from the description given, to ask someone to do something they may not be comfortable with. However, it is the worship leader's job to lead the congregation yes, but in many churches it is also the worship leaders job to lead the other musicians; even to train and teach them. Perhaps sax's worship is leader is trying to give him a little nudge to explore other areas of playing and musicianship. I have no idea what the actual situation is, so I decided to try and answer the question as best I could.

RodeaTex: I do the same thing. To many in the non-guitar playing masses, just arpeggiating a chord qualifies as playing lead. Sounds pretty good too.

[Saxguitar]

Thanks again for the reply's, the reason my leader is nudginh me to play more of a lead part is because she wants me to have more freedom to express the music how I see it. It isn't that I am uncomfortable becasue I love improvising on the blues scale on my sax and even guitar. I guess I might have jumped the gun a little on this thread, I called and talked to her and I didn't talk to her about the lead part and out of nowhere she told me that if I didn't feel like trying to improvise quite yet it would be fine if I just play chords still to get a feeling for the songs and maybe next time we do the songs if I want I can put some lead into the song.
I love the simple chord trick, I used that alot the first time she told me to try and do something and I can't remember the song but the arpeggio figures from the chord fingerings actually sounded really good. Thanks for the prays looks like they helped, because now I am less stressed and I guess the way I am looking at it now is Hey at least I am getting up using the gift God has given me, it will sound however he wants it to sound. Every noise is a joyful noise I guess I should have remembered that before I started this thread. Once again thank you very much for the help and prayers.

[fuddy]

My old worship leaders (a husband and wife team) always tried to get me to stretch myself as a guitar player, and while it was a bit uncomfortable at times, it was the best thing for me and for our overall sound and worship experience.

Unfortunately, they had to leave the church a few years ago (because of a job transfer), and our current guy who does most of the worship leading is a fantastic blues player. The problem is, although he is a dear friend, he wants to play lead almost exclusively, and he wants me to just play chords. Makes me miss the days of being stretched.

So my point is, look at this request to stretch yourself as a fantastic opportunity to grow as a guitar player and a member of the worship band!

It always helps to have good resources, so here are a couple that have really helped me:

guitarpraise a fantastic website with videos for playing electric guitar in worship bands

A DVD called Electric Guitar with Paul Baloche and Ben Gowell(again, for the purpose of supporting worship)

[777Brad]

Originally Posted by mrSlush50

Just start with basic pentatonic scale stuff. Keep it simple and don't stop playing chords. If you're leader wants lead, YOU CAN do that. Find an open spot in the song and play a couple of notes from a scale in the proper key. Remember you're not playing rock n' roll. It's P&W. Remember also that there is a difference between playing lead and playing solos. Here is a link to get you started http://www.guitar-dreams.com/guitarl...ssonid-13.html

You can also do a google search for "pentatonic guitar scale" or something like that, and find all sorts of good stuff. Start there and build your repertoire on that. It's not the only way to play lead, but it is the simplest and most common.

And don't worry if you don't sound like what's on the CD or like your friend. (Also it sounds like he would be a great resource. Maybe give him a call and see what he says.)

I'm no expert, but the Pentatonic mode 5 (major pentatonic) looks different than I learned it. The way that I learned it, if in F it would be;
F, G, A, C, D

Am I wrong?

[jbmando]

You are not wrong, but that pentatonic major mode in the example is the Bb pent major, not F. As often happens, the originator used A# instead of Bb in the diagram, but the music is written with 2 flats - key of Bb major.

[scooteraz]

When I started to play in a P&W situation a few years ago, I couldn't improvise lead, or, more to the point, was very uncomfortable. But, the director wanted it (and I wanted to as well). In any event, still not great, but get by, because she was insistent. So take this as a learning experience.

A couple of hints. If you hit a note that is sour, slide up or down to resolve it back to the scale. Then, do it again later. Remember this phrase, "I meant to do that." After a while you will learn that some of the cooler riffs you have heard are folks sliding or bending to resolve notes onto the scale.

The other thing you can say if you land on a sour note and stay there too long, do it again and just say "Oh, I was inserting a jazz scale."

I know that sounds stupid, but thinking that does take some of the stress off. And really, most people don't notice. After a while, you get better at it.

If you really can't handle it, just tell the P&W leader. You may have to quit, but if you think you are becoming a distraction to the worship, that might be the better route. But I thinking, you will be able to step up and handle what the leader wants.

[jspeter51]

guitarpraise.blogspot.com
That guy covers and tabs a TON of P&W songs

[777Brad]

Originally Posted by jbmando

You are not wrong, but that pentatonic major mode in the example is the Bb pent major, not F. As often happens, the originator used A# instead of Bb in the diagram, but the music is written with 2 flats - key of Bb major.

You're absolutely right. How embarrasing.

I just assumed that the example would start on tonic. Moreover that A# (rather than Bb) really threw me.

[Detman101]

Originally Posted by buddywayne

jbmando, you speak with much wisdom. I will also pray for the right outcome.

WOOHOO!!! Another '51 player!!

Oh...back on topic.
I play lead guitar in my church and I try to accent what the singer is singing. It's kind of like you're singing words but through the notes on your guitar. You do have to know your scales and also a lot of improvisation. It has taken me 2 years of playing in my church to be able to keep up with the band/singers AND manage the audio at the same time.
But it's possible.
i didn't have a clue until I learned some scales, mostly the blues scale, the 5 positions of the pentatonic scale, the lydian scale and the major scale.

=)
Dm

[Bonneybear]

Take your minor pentatonic scale and move it down 3 frets towards the nut.So if you where playing Rock lead in A on the 5th fret, you slide it down to the 2nd fret, so it looks like Rock lead in F#. You are now playing Major pent in the key of A. Be advised your tonics are not in the same spot they where when you where playing minor pent /rock lead. Hope this helps...

[Southpaw Tele]

Our PW leader gave me similar flexibility and the permission to play more lead style pieces with my Tele at church. At first, I panicked, but now I'm enjoying the challenge and I also realized (once again!) it's not about me, but Him. I arpeggiate chords a lot and I use the pentatonic minor scale. It's forcing me to learn a lot and let go more when playing. Go get 'em!

[refin]

Originally Posted by jbmando

I feel that I should say something which is not the answer you were looking for. I know I'm an old guy, but I have about 13 years experience as a church musician and since last February I have been playing for the best P&W leader I have ever met.

I know that there is probably a lot more to the story, but somehow, I don't think forcing a team member to attempt a style of playing that he is not yet comfortable or familiar with is God-honoring.

What I have learned under our new leader is that it isn't about making the sound guys happy, it's about leading the congregation closer to the Lord. The people in the seats should be where the emphasis is, not the players and singers and not the sound guys. They don't like your guitar's clean sound? What part of your sound do you think God does not like?

Clearly conveying the text of the song and the creation of a worshipful mood should be what they strive for. It's called "Praise and Worship" for a reason. It isn't a concert, your team is doing a ministry to the congregation. My advice is practice what you do know, add in as much as you feel comfortable with and pray that you will be honoring the Lord with your playing. God knows what all of our talents and limitations are and He does not expect more from us than we can deliver, and the person responsible for leading others in the worship of God certainly should not expect it either.

I am sorry if this doesn't seem to help you with your stress, but I am praying for the best outcome for everybody involved in your church's P&W team.

I agree.
I have a problem with someone putting a task on someone else because they feel like it,without regards to how prepared the person is.That happened to me in the past,when I was easily intimidated.If someone told your worship leader that they were going to sing a solo and play piano next week or preach next Sunday,how would that go over? They might mean well,but I think you need to be honest with her if you aren't ready yet----good luck with the learning!

[Saxguitar]

Thanks, for the past few weeks I have taken it slow, I have only had the oppurtunity to lead on a few songs, one song I got to lead on was a song called Salt and Light, it was nice because instead of having to improvise the music the guitar was supposed to play was put in musical notation and I read the notes of the page, it seems like slowly as I play I am improving my ability to play what I am hearing pretty well on my sax, now I just need to begin bridging the gap between my ears and my fingers. Thanks for all your comments I have found that whenever I hear a song if I don't know anything about it(chords and key) I can usually find something which does accent what the singers are singing. Actually this week was the first week I brought my new SX Tele to church to play and the PW leader said "man what kind of guitar are you playing, that sounds so good." That was nice and now that I have a little twang to play around with I can't wait until I find a sound which I know well enough to try and lead with, she told me if I ever feel like playing lead I am more than welcome to do it, it isn't about how good it sounds to me but to Him, I still am playing chords for 95% of the songs we do but soon, hopefully by the end of the summer I will be a mean lean lead guitaring machine.

I can't wait to visit some other churches praise teams to see what kind of stuff they do, and I completely agree with jbmambo, we aren't putting on a concert we are leading a P+W service.

refin I would love to see the response to someone walking up and saying they were playing piano next week but sadly my church is having problems with anybody wanting to do anything (Hence the reason for the Wonderful Sound Techs Got to Love Them),there are people who know what to do but they don't seem to want to get involved, it seems the same people do everything, hopefully the new interum pastor can help stir up some renewal in our church.

Man am I long winded or what? Sorry about that.

[dale_c]

Saxguitar, glad to hear it's working out for you. I am also slowly trying to make the transition from playing rhythm to playing some lead stuff. In my case I think it will be a slow transition...

Ironically we just did Salt and Light yesterday also.