What are you doing from U2's new album this weekend?

[patl]

I can imagine a bunch of churches doing Magnificent this weekend, maybe a few doing White as Snow.

Anybody working up a song from the new U2 album for a worship set this weekend?

[Dababy]

Nothing this weekend, but I'm going to be working on our worship leader about letting us play Magnificent. He's a BIG U2 fan so it shouldn't be too hard. We did "O Come O Come, Emanual" (Sixpence None The Richer version) at Christmas, so learning White as Snow wouldn't be a stretch for anybody.

[mrSlush50]

I'm learning Magnificent at the moment, but not for church. Seriously doubt I could get it on the set list seeing as I can't even get "Still Haven't Found" or the intro rif from "Streets" approved. I don't think it's a religious thing as that really isn't the nature of my church, I just think I may be the only one on the team who is really into U2. You better believe we're closing with "40" every third week or so when I lead on Tuesday nights though.

[scooteraz]

Call me a curmudgeon, but none of these songs raise to the level of worship songs at my church. While they may express some Christian thought somewhere, or have been inspired by (or even lifted whole verses from the Bible), as some point they fall off the theological band wagon. Take 40 for example, the entire "how long to sing this new song?" lyric seems to imply that praise is a chore. Or, the white as snow last verse, which seems to have forgotten where the pure heart comes from. Human experiences, yes, but not worship.

I'm not saying they are bad songs. And, in a Christian camp or coffee house sort of setting would be fine, in my view. But they do not meet the theological requirements of my church for worship.

I will admit that I am not that into U2. So any song from them gets an extra critical eye. And I have a general antipathy towards Bono. Don't know if he is truly bad or good, but the hagiographical nature of the coverage of his exploits became rather annoying a long time ago. Just me.

[Danno]

Agreed Scooteraz. Longtime fan but haven't seen where their songs could be incorporated into our church worship. I believe Bono and Co have some true convictions but the focus is more on the self IMHO.

Good memories of when The Joshua Tree came out. What a buzz that caused - and rightfully so. One of the greatest releases ever.

[asatattack]

"none of these songs raise to the level of worship songs at my church. While they may express some Christian thought somewhere, or have been inspired by (or even lifted whole verses from the Bible), as some point they fall off the theological band wagon."

Hope you hold the same standard towards some of the newer, unscriptual, flakey, self-centred contemporary songs that are generally accepted in christian circles today.

[mrSlush50]

scooteraz:

Ever been to a U2 show? One of the coolest moments of my entire life was when U2, the biggest rock band in the world got an arena full of people who I would assume to be mostly non-believers, 17,000 strong, to sing out the 40th Psalm. For a full ten minutes after the band had already left the stage, I was at a worship service. Does that make their music right for church? Not necessarily. It depends on the church. Just remember that "Christian music" does not have to be published by a Christian label.

Not trying to label U2 as a Christian band, just trying to point out that frankly it doesn't matter whose songs you're playing. If you are playing them for the Lord, he receives it as worship and is glorified by it. So much the better if it's a song that people new to church and/or to Christ can recognize and be familiar with.

EDIT: Fixed minor grammatical errors.

[WideAwake]

Originally Posted by mrSlush50

scooteraz:

ever been to a U2 show? One of the coolest moments of my entire life was when U2, the biggest rock band in the world got an arena full of people who I would assume to be mostly non-believers, 17,000 strong, to sing out the 40th Psalm. For a full ten minutes after the band had already left the stage, I was at a worship service. Does that make their music right for church? Not necessarily. It depends on the church. Just remember that "Christian music" does not have to be published by a Christian label.

Not trying to label U2 as a Christian band, just trying to point out that frankly it doesn't matter who's songs you're playing. If you are playing them for the Lord, he receives it as worship and is glorified by it. So much the better if it's a song that people new to church and/or to Christ can recognized and be familiar with.

Awesome.

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by asatattack

Hope you hold the same standard towards some of the newer, unscriptual, flakey, self-centred contemporary songs that are generally accepted in christian circles today.

Not trying to get any blood boiling or cause lost sleep, but I just have to ask the question..

Can you please share a list of the worship songs that fit your above description?

Thanks much

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by asatattack

"none of these songs raise to the level of worship songs at my church. While they may express some Christian thought somewhere, or have been inspired by (or even lifted whole verses from the Bible), as some point they fall off the theological band wagon."

Hope you hold the same standard towards some of the newer, unscriptual, flakey, self-centred contemporary songs that are generally accepted in christian circles today.

We do. There are a bunch of things that play on Christian Radio that do not meet the standards of worship music. Again, not that the music is bad, or that the lyrics are some sort of misogynistic, self loathing crap. For us worship music has to enhance worship, not just be general "playing for the Lord".

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by mrSlush50

scooteraz:

Ever been to a U2 show? One of the coolest moments of my entire life was when U2, the biggest rock band in the world got an arena full of people who I would assume to be mostly non-believers, 17,000 strong, to sing out the 40th Psalm. For a full ten minutes after the band had already left the stage, I was at a worship service. Does that make their music right for church? Not necessarily. It depends on the church. Just remember that "Christian music" does not have to be published by a Christian label.

Not trying to label U2 as a Christian band, just trying to point out that frankly it doesn't matter whose songs you're playing. If you are playing them for the Lord, he receives it as worship and is glorified by it. So much the better if it's a song that people new to church and/or to Christ can recognize and be familiar with.

EDIT: Fixed minor grammatical errors.

I would also like to point out (again) that 40 is not the 40th Psalm. Some of the lyrics are lifted from the 40th psalm, but the song deviates from the psalm to wonder, aloud, how long does the song have to be sung. That idea is not in the several interpretations of the Bible I have on hand.

Remember, I did NOT say the song was bad. I said it was not suitable for worship. Two completely different things. I think, in that instance, the human experience of "...do I have to do it again TODAY???" is ubiquitous. However, that is not an emotion or action useful to worship. I would not, again, object to the song being played in other Christian settings, non-worship gatherings. But, as worship, no.

As I noted in an earlier post, I'm not enamored everything from "Christian" publishing houses. So, I really don't look at those labels when choosing music. I would venture that the Doobie Brothers cover of "Jesus is Just Alright" is more worshipful than any of the U2 songs mentioned here, and that (just barely) doesn't make it above the bar.

Even a really theologically sound song like Petra's "If I Had to Die for Someone" (which I would like to play just after Easter) probably won't make the cut because it approaches a serious topic in such a flippant manner. Cute presentation, but not worshipful (that is, assisting the congregation in their worship; but I am working on that one).

I'm glad you had a Pauline moment at a U2 concert. The apostle himself was merely going down the road. But I would venture that most at the concert were not worshipping the great Jehovah Gira, but U2.

Re-read my original post. I was not making any slam at U2's music. Not a great fan myself, but like some pieces. I was just saying, after looking up the lyrics and making sure that my impressions of the music were correct, that they were not what I would call suitable for worship. I mentioned my antipathy towards Bono in particular, so that my potential prejudices were on the table in advance.

[refin]

Modern "Worship Music" has become a sellable product---chasing it's tail,and seemingly stuck in G-Em7-Cadd9-D.
Not judging the hearts behind the songs,but just an honest observation.............

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by refin

Worship Music has become a sellable product---chasing it's tail,and seemingly stuck in G-Em7-Cadd9-D.
Not judging the hearts behind the songs,but just an honest observation.............

'cept we keep moving it to Bb-Gm7-Ebadd9-F to match our leads voice! Oh, and if that doesn't work right, Eb-Cm7-Abadd9-Bb....

Not a bad observation, but it has always been a sellable product, and has always moved in fits and starts (just like secular music). Tell me again how Bach supported himself? However, I agree it is time for something a bit fresher.

Still, there are songs out there that are decent.

[mrSlush50]

scooteraz:

meh... so the actual lyrical content of a song is what makes it "suitable for worship?" Obviously you can't do any song you want. Many songs have lyrical content that makes them unsuitable for church use. (Let's spend the night together, etc...) But I don't believe there is some sort of spiritual or theological threshold that has to be met in the lyric before a song becomes worship material.

also, I would argue against your assumption that the correct interpretation of the chorus is essentially "holy crap, how long do I have to go on singing!?" This is rather short sighted, especially considering the lyrics leading up to it.

I will sing, sing a new song -->"How long do I GET to sing this song?" (Forever right? Sounds like a worship song to me.)

Many will see, many will see and fear -->"How long do I have to sing before others hear and understand?"

I waited patiently for the lord -->"I'll sing for as long as you'd like me to."

These are all valid interpretations of the actual lyric "...how long to sing this song." Pick one and run with it.

Again, U2 is not going to be right for every church. That's totally fine. But believe me, Beautiful Day, 40 and Still Haven't Found all work great as worship songs. (I even heard people change the words to "finally found what I'm looking for." Personally I like the original. I like the idea of telling God how I actually feel sometimes rather than telling him how I want other people to think I feel. But either way works.)

oh and nobody likes Bono. Respect him for his talent and for his humanitarian efforts yes, but like him? No.''

Also, I have to say that I respect the fact that you have clearly put some real thought into your opinion and are not simply dismissing U2 because they "aren't a Christian band." I'd worship with you any day. :-)

[Sproles40]

Well isnt this a heated discussion lol. but all arguements aside i think U2 is fine for church if you are playing for the lord and you play certain songs. The only hangup with playing U2 is the effects if you are playing electric. I usually play acoustic at my church but thats just me.

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by mrSlush50

scooteraz:

meh... so the actual lyrical content of a song is what makes it "suitable for worship?" Obviously you can't do any song you want. Many songs have lyrical content that makes them unsuitable for church use. (Let's spend the night together, etc...) But I don't believe there is some sort of spiritual or theological threshold that has to be met in the lyric before a song becomes worship material.

also, I would argue against your assumption that the correct interpretation of the chorus is essentially "holy crap, how long do I have to go on singing!?" This is rather short sighted, especially considering the lyrics leading up to it.

...I like the idea of telling God how I actually feel sometimes rather than telling him how I want other people to think I feel. But either way works.)

oh and nobody likes Bono. Respect him for his talent and for his humanitarian efforts yes, but like him? No.''

Also, I have to say that I respect the fact that you have clearly put some real thought into your opinion and are not simply dismissing U2 because they "aren't a Christian band." I'd worship with you any day. :-)

First:
It is not just the lyrics that make worship, but "improper lyrics" are a deal killer.
Second:
I am just stating the feeling I had when I heard the chorus the first time, but everyone is free to interpret the song as they see fit. But if a significant enough fraction get the same message as I do from the chorus, then, again, it is not suitable for worship. I am sure someone somewhere can get negative meaning out of "Amazing Grace" or "What a Friend We Have in Jesus".

Hey, I admitted in my first post I am a bit of a curmudgeon, so I understand songs that tell how I feel. Usually as a confessional. Used to have a blues kind of confessional way back in the day when I was in college, it was really a downer But I would not have used that song anywhere but as a confessional.

I do belong to a liturgical church (LCMS if anyone cares), so we do have songs for specific purposes during our normal services. So, our P&W team cannot be as freewheeling as in some others (think Church of Christ or Southern Baptist or Non-denominational). I enjoy going to those services for their freewheeling lack of exact structure; that is not my gig. I need to fit into my own (and my religion's) theological constraints.

BTW, I understand that no one likes Bono. There are a lot of rock stars that aren't particularly likable. I get really tired of the uncritical and fawning press he gets.

BTW 2, I'd enjoy worshipping with you.

[WideAwake]

Re: Nobody Likes Bono -

If that is what it takes to get the things done he has accomplished, I am sure he's not losing any sleep. For the record, I don't find any members of U2 "unlikeable." While I am not hanging out with them on weekends, given their status and fame, they seem like some of the most down to earth people as any you'll meet. The press he gets is for making a difference in the world, not how many women he sleeps with, or what drunken antics he's pulled lately, or being a general ass. They guy has more money than any of us will ever see in eight lifetimes, anything he needs at his beckoning, and he spends his free time in third world countries trying to make things better. What a jerk.

If you personally don't like the guy or his music, that's cool. But making broad statements like "nobody likes Bono" is petty and foolish.

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by WideAwake

Re: Nobody Likes Bono -

If that is what it takes to get the things done he has accomplished, I am sure he's not losing any sleep. For the record, I don't find any members of U2 "unlikeable." While I am not hanging out with them on weekends, given their status and fame, they seem like some of the most down to earth people as any you'll meet. The press he gets is for making a difference in the world, not how many women he sleeps with, or what drunken antics he's pulled lately, or being a general ass. They guy has more money than any of us will ever see in eight lifetimes, anything he needs at his beckoning, and he spends his free time in third world countries trying to make things better. What a jerk.

If you personally don't like the guy or his music, that's cool. But making broad statements like "nobody likes Bono" is petty and foolish.

I think you misread both mrSlush 50 and my comments on this. Bono's antics/actions/help/lack thereof are a topic for a different post, area or even forum. I believe what mrSlush 50 was trying to say (not putting words in his mouth, just my take on the comment) was that Bono has made himself a royal PITA, even for his friends. That is not a secret; one of the 60 Minutes hagiographic portrayals of the man pretty much gloried in that idea. I was merely responding that I understood that.

Again, I put out here in my original post that I am not a particular fan so that my prejudices were up front. And others could weigh my comments about the applicability of U2 music as worship music knowing that I would freely admit that prejudice. My personal feelings about the effectiveness of Bono's work are nowhere in any of these posts (nor do I feel this the proper area of this forum for that discussion, and since that would get political fast, probably not fodder for TPRI at all). No one was here disrespecting Bono, or U2. I get that you are a fan, and God bless you. Go on, be a fan; that doesn't make you a bad person in my book. But even if I see his actions/antics/help/lack thereof in a different light than you shouldn't make me a bad (or silly) person either.

My input to this discussion was intended to discuss how lyrics make or break a worship song for my group, and how U2's music does not cross that bar for us. It was not to discuss, directly, Bono or his work outside U2 directly (though we have touched on that). Sorry if you took my comments as a personal insult.

[WideAwake]

Nothing personal taken at all, I just took it as a broad statement vs. personal feelings. I didn't mean to refer to you (or anyone) personally as silly, that was more directed towards the comment.

But you are right, the topic does not need to derail any further from the original post.

[bosstone]

Originally Posted by Danno

Agreed Scooteraz. Longtime fan but haven't seen where their songs could be incorporated into our church worship. I believe Bono and Co have some true convictions but the focus is more on the self IMHO.

Good memories of when The Joshua Tree came out. What a buzz that caused - and rightfully so. One of the greatest releases ever.

Whether their songs are suitable for one's particular church is a judgment call each church must decide. Whatever their motives, their celebrity is enormous and they have chosen to use it for good purposes. The power of their recognition and exposure has allowed them to do more good than would be possible for many churches.

[Danno]

Originally Posted by bosstone

Whether their songs are suitable for one's particular church is a judgment call each church must decide.

Agreed. That was the reasoning behind my inclusion of "our".

[three barrel]

I once read the lyrics to a "worship" song that went something like this:
"Lord, how long will you forget me? Forever? How long will you look the other way? How long must I struggle with anguish in my soul, with sorrow in my heart every day?" Tell me, how many churches would sing a song like that on Sunday morning? (Hmmm, maybe "how long must I sing this song" does make some kind of sense....)

[TxTeleMan]

All Along the Watchtower was taken from the Bible, (Isaiah 21:8,9 if you're interested) but we don't sing it as a worship song in church.

Although back in the Folk Mass days, I did hear I Shall Be Released sung in churches. ?????

I can't comment on U2's stuff as I haven't heard any of it, and probably won't, but I do agree that there's a lot of CCM out there that shouldn't be used as worship music in church, that "There are a bunch of things that play on Christian Radio that do not meet the standards of worship music" as well as "unscriptual, flakey, self-centred contemporary songs" that we shouldn't be using as worship songs.

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by three barrel

I once read the lyrics to a "worship" song that went something like this:
"Lord, how long will you forget me? Forever? How long will you look the other way? How long must I struggle with anguish in my soul, with sorrow in my heart every day?" Tell me, how many churches would sing a song like that on Sunday morning? (Hmmm, maybe "how long must I sing this song" does make some kind of sense....)

Hmmm, direct quote from Psalm 13? (How long, O LORD ? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me?) But yes, that would require a specific setting.

Originally Posted by TxTeleMan

All Along the Watchtower was taken from the Bible, (Isaiah 21:8,9 if you're interested) but we don't sing it as a worship song in church.

Although back in the Folk Mass days, I did hear I Shall Be Released sung in churches. ?????

I can't comment on U2's stuff as I haven't heard any of it, and probably won't, but I do agree that there's a lot of CCM out there that shouldn't be used as worship music in church, that "There are a bunch of things that play on Christian Radio that do not meet the standards of worship music" as well as "unscriptual, flakey, self-centred contemporary songs" that we shouldn't be using as worship songs.

Did not realize that Isaiah was the inspiration to "All Along the Watchtower". Don't see much similarity between the song and the verses, other than a mention of the watchtower. However, during Dylan's "born again period" (to use a phrase used by several online biographies) he did pen "Gotta Serve Somebody", which is directly spiritual, but again would not make a particularly good worship song.

[mrSlush50]

Picked up the March issue of Rolling Stone yesterday. (The one with U2 on the cover.) I was not at all surprised to find this Bono quote, "All music for me is worship of one kind or another."

I don't really think reading that is going to all of the sudden make people be ok with U2 in church if they weren't already, but I do think it is telling of the type of music U2 puts out. Music that is written as worship rather than written for worship.

Because it's not written specifically for a worship environment (most of it anyway) U2 is not going to be right for many churches. But the fact is, U2's music, as well as the music of many other "non-Christian" artists can be used in that capacity.

As to the original topic, having listened to the new record a dozen times or so now, I don't really hear anything on there that I think I could take as-is and place in a worship service. I might try Magnificent or White As Snow as a piece of special music in church though.

[jcw]

I'm joining the discussion late, and I'm a pretty die-hard U2 fan, but I agree with scooteraz.

Also.. just because a song is based on scripture, IS scripture, or quotes scripture does not make it a worship song. But I suppose that comes back to your church's definition of "worship."

Today, suppose Don Moen writes a song that says, "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and I wouldn't consider that a worship song. Maybe an edifying song, a song of conviction, but not a worship song. I mean, what are you worshiping when you sing that?

There is a line between a spiritual song and a worship song. And then, like many have mentioned, there are lots of "Christian" bands out there releasing "Christian" music that are neither worship nor spiritual. :)