most important elements in church music worship

Matt Plescher · January 6th, 2004, 02:25 PM

What are the most important elements to make a great music worship?

here are some:
-band and worshippers all focused on God
-singers singing the words from the heart
-coming out of a meaningful section of the service
-great drummer

There are lots of others, what do you think?

Cheers
Matt

reverbbb · January 6th, 2004, 06:47 PM

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

The only reason not to smile is if you are being intense for the character of the song. Dramatic, sorrowful, humble, etc.

I agree with all the things you said. But I'm still wondering about the drummer thingy :? . Just kidding.

Congregation involvement is fairly high on my list. If we are just up there making music as entertainment, then we have not done our job correctly. The songs should invite the congregation to participate with the same enthusiasm the the P&W band is presenting. Therefore, the songs must be familiar, melodic, and easy for everyone to sing without thinking about difficult timing or changes. If there is a key change, it needs to be as smooth as silk that easily leads the congregation with no surprises.

Great topic BTW.

Oh, one more thing, a screaming guitar solo at the end of every song, like Michael J Fox on "Back to the Future".

Well, maybe not.

broadcaster · January 6th, 2004, 07:09 PM

I would say if there is a reverence for God by those involved, then it is good worship.

And a good drummer! :)

LesStrat · January 8th, 2004, 05:02 PM

God focus, and in order and submission (of course the former leads to the latter).

PVTele · January 10th, 2004, 07:04 AM

1. Love God, and do it all for him.
2. Love Jesus, and do it all in him.
3. Love the Holy Spirit, and do it all by his power.

The whole thing has to be to the glory of God, so while it's made as well as we possibly can (no shortcuts or sloppy under-rehearsed sets - except possibly in dire emergency!) it must draw attention to God and not to the musicians. We must (to quote a worship leader whose name I can't now remember) lead people to the throne of God and then step away, and let them meet with God and not with us.

DADGAD · January 10th, 2004, 03:15 PM

Playing for an audience of One. Everyone else may join in if they wish.

marvelous · May 22nd, 2008, 11:36 PM

1. Keep it centered around Christ (like Southern Gospel) & not centered aroudn man (Me, myself, & I).
2. Don't center it around one age group.

Marvelous
2000 Nashville Telecaster
1963 Gretsch Jet Frebird

RodeoTex · May 23rd, 2008, 12:21 AM

Most important element is NOT taking over the service and chasing off others.

hotraman · May 23rd, 2008, 12:59 AM

I agree with all of the previous posts,
including this:
playing in tune and come ready to rehearse

DADGAD · May 23rd, 2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelous

1. Keep it centered around Christ (like Southern Gospel) & not centered aroudn man (Me, myself, & I)....{snip}...

I'd just like to share my personal opinion on this. (Take it for what its worth.) The words, "me, myself and I" are not wrong to use in our songs. If you look at the lyrics in the Psalms, these words are there. If you removed every Psalm with those words in it, you wouldn't have many left. (If any at all.) Check out PS23.

It would be as if I wrote a love song about my wife without mentioning myself, our interactions or who I am. The listener would have no idea of my personal relationship to the one I'm singing about and would miss the point.

Again, IMHO.

Gary

wilkat1 · May 23rd, 2008, 08:25 AM

1. It should be participatory. If you get too stylized, the congregation is unconsciously discouraged from participating. Simplicity is key.

2. The arrangement should fit the liturgical flow of the service. "Softly and Tenderly" might be played differently as a prayer song in the middle of the service than as an altar call.

3. Every element of a worship service should be designed to facilitate an encounter with the living God. There's nothing inherently wrong with a congregation walking away from a service saying, "we have a good preacher," or "we have a good band," but ideally they should go forth saying, "we have a great God." Keep that in mind.

Revman · May 25th, 2008, 08:00 PM

1. You can't lead people where you have not been.

nuff said.

DADGAD · May 25th, 2008, 09:06 PM

Welcome Revman! Good point.

ravindave_3600 · May 25th, 2008, 11:52 PM

It may not be THE most important element, but could we get some songs on the worship list that have solid, theologically sound, Biblically truthful lyrics? I've been visiting churches the last few months and, while the musicianship is generally pretty good, I'm amazed at how many modern worship songs are disjointed, vague, or just plain don't make sense! Yet, they sound good, so they get played

Sigh............

refin · May 26th, 2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Playing for an audience of One. Everyone else may join in if they wish.

I like that.....

I remember someone describing Phil Keaggy in concert---although he involved the audience,it was like he was playing in a room to his King and we were peering through the window.
Play in church the same way you play alone at home..............to an audience of One,and others will follow.

wbm68 · June 10th, 2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravindave_3600

It may not be THE most important element, but could we get some songs on the worship list that have solid, theologically sound, Biblically truthful lyrics? I've been visiting churches the last few months and, while the musicianship is generally pretty good, I'm amazed at how many modern worship songs are disjointed, vague, or just plain don't make sense! Yet, they sound good, so they get played

Sigh............

I can second that. I would probably even say that the vast majority of "Christian" songs have no solid theological foundation at all. This is probably due to the complete lack of knowledge of bible history here in the US.

WallyArms · June 11th, 2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravindave_3600

It may not be THE most important element, but could we get some songs on the worship list that have solid, theologically sound, Biblically truthful lyrics? I've been visiting churches the last few months and, while the musicianship is generally pretty good, I'm amazed at how many modern worship songs are disjointed, vague, or just plain don't make sense! Yet, they sound good, so they get played

Sigh............

Check out the Reformed University Fellowship's (RUF) Indelible Grace Project and Red Mountain Church's Red Mountain Music. Both are projects that write new music for old, mostly lesser known hymns. Theologically sound lyrics, good tunes. Most of our "non-hymnal" songs are from these two resources.

GoldieLocks · June 11th, 2008, 10:57 AM

I remember when I was going to Churches that used Hymn books (80-90's). Some of those hymns were so complicated musically we could barely sing them - or understand their meaning? I think the writers were trying to impress Mozart or Bach.
Now they're so incredibly dumb and simple I can feel my I.Q. lowering as I sing them.
But we still have 100's of great ones...so I'm happy

With worship I try to always make sure the congregation is able to sing along.

Rick Towne · June 11th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WallyArms

Check out the Reformed University Fellowship's (RUF) Indelible Grace Project and Red Mountain Church's Red Mountain Music. Both are projects that write new music for old, mostly lesser known hymns. Theologically sound lyrics, good tunes. Most of our "non-hymnal" songs are from these two resources.

The Indelible Grace projects are very good. There are five out now. Great clean Nashville production, unlike the Les Paul/U2 delay tones that seem to be everywhere else these days.

unbridled · June 11th, 2008, 11:42 PM

I agree with everyone but would like to add that a good sound system and sound person are essential. Too loud / too quiet can be huge distractions and take the focus off of where it should be, on HIM. I think it is a very fine and difficult line to walk because the worship team needs to be focused on worship but they also are doing a job. The job is to help facilitate worship for the congregation. You have been annointed to do this job so, if you are able to help the congregation worship, you are actually worshiping by fullfilling your commitment to perform your job.

Does this make any sense?

I've just seen worship teams lost in the moment with the flock not even involved.

ravindave_3600 · June 18th, 2008, 09:56 PM

Thanks for the tips, Wally. One of my favorite exercises is to write new tunes to old hymn lyrics. That way we can have beautiful, deep poetry as well as some rockin' (or otherwise appropriate) sounds.

It's good to see you again.

Ptrallan01 · June 23rd, 2008, 10:02 AM

Silence to reflect on the meaning of the lyrics

periodic accapella singing to remind us that all we need to praise the Lord is our hearts

ravindave_3600 · June 23rd, 2008, 10:31 PM

Mmmm good points, brother Peter. Good to see you again!

HisFireWithin · July 3rd, 2008, 02:33 AM

So as to not break the "no theology discussion" rule, I'm going to stick to very practical stuff...

1. The leader must know how to arrange
2. The singers and musicians must be well rehearsed
3. Instruments must be in tune
4. The leader must intentionally engage those in the crowd...exhortations, interactivity, participation must be encouraged and reinforced. People will only go where they are led, and the leader must engage people.
5. The leader must know where he is leading the people, and with divine help, must create moments in the set for people to respond, interact, and internalize with the theme or focus.
6. The sound person must be properly trained and in sync with the platform leader in terms of where the gathering is going directionally and sonically. Incidentally, I believe it's very important for the sound crew to be treated as members of the team.
7. The senior leadership of the organization must all be on the same page directionally before the gathering.

In short:

1. Have a plan
2. Be skilled at communicating the plan
3. Have everyone be on the same page with the plan
4. Make sure the plan comes from God
5. Lead the crowd in the plan

January 6th, 2004, 02:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Matt Plescher Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 837	most important elements in church music worship What are the most important elements to make a great music worship? here are some: -band and worshippers all focused on God -singers singing the words from the heart -coming out of a meaningful section of the service -great drummer There are lots of others, what do you think? Cheers Matt __________________ She's not your satellite She doesn't miss you So turn off your smoke machine And Marshall stack

January 6th, 2004, 06:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
reverbbb Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Just Plano, Texas Age: 50 Posts: 3,683 33 Photos	Everyone MUST . . . :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D The only reason not to smile is if you are being intense for the character of the song. Dramatic, sorrowful, humble, etc. I agree with all the things you said. But I'm still wondering about the drummer thingy :? . Just kidding. Congregation involvement is fairly high on my list. If we are just up there making music as entertainment, then we have not done our job correctly. The songs should invite the congregation to participate with the same enthusiasm the the P&W band is presenting. Therefore, the songs must be familiar, melodic, and easy for everyone to sing without thinking about difficult timing or changes. If there is a key change, it needs to be as smooth as silk that easily leads the congregation with no surprises. Great topic BTW. Oh, one more thing, a screaming guitar solo at the end of every song, like Michael J Fox on "Back to the Future". Well, maybe not. __________________ "I come here to reflect a little."™ http://www.myspace.com/reverbbb2 Guitarist Praise & Worship Forum

January 8th, 2004, 05:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
LesStrat TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New Iberia, LA Posts: 28	God focus, and in order and submission (of course the former leads to the latter). __________________ Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be pleasing to You.

January 10th, 2004, 07:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
PVTele Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Wool, Dorset, UK Posts: 282	It's all about you, Jesus... 1. Love God, and do it all for him. 2. Love Jesus, and do it all in him. 3. Love the Holy Spirit, and do it all by his power. The whole thing has to be to the glory of God, so while it's made as well as we possibly can (no shortcuts or sloppy under-rehearsed sets - except possibly in dire emergency!) it must draw attention to God and not to the musicians. We must (to quote a worship leader whose name I can't now remember) lead people to the throne of God and then step away, and let them meet with God and not with us. __________________ The Lord will save me, and we will sing with stringed instruments all the days of our lives in the temple of the Lord - Isaiah 38:20

May 22nd, 2008, 11:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
marvelous TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Beebe, Ar Age: 50 Posts: 23	most important elements in church music worship 1. Keep it centered around Christ (like Southern Gospel) & not centered aroudn man (Me, myself, & I). 2. Don't center it around one age group. Marvelous 2000 Nashville Telecaster 1963 Gretsch Jet Frebird

January 6th, 2004, 07:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
broadcaster Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Midwest Age: 50 Posts: 525 1 Photos	I would say if there is a reverence for God by those involved, then it is good worship. And a good drummer! :)

January 10th, 2004, 03:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
DADGAD Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palmdale, CA Posts: 764	Playing for an audience of One. Everyone else may join in if they wish.

May 23rd, 2008, 12:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
RodeoTex Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,170	Most important element is NOT taking over the service and chasing off others. __________________ Turn it on, turn it up, turn me loose.

May 23rd, 2008, 12:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
hotraman Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Camas, WA Posts: 220	I agree with all of the previous posts, including this: playing in tune and come ready to rehearse __________________ www.stevehotra.com

May 23rd, 2008, 08:25 AM	#11 (permalink)
wilkat1 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: So. Illinois Age: 40 Posts: 1,554 20 Photos	1. It should be participatory. If you get too stylized, the congregation is unconsciously discouraged from participating. Simplicity is key. 2. The arrangement should fit the liturgical flow of the service. "Softly and Tenderly" might be played differently as a prayer song in the middle of the service than as an altar call. 3. Every element of a worship service should be designed to facilitate an encounter with the living God. There's nothing inherently wrong with a congregation walking away from a service saying, "we have a good preacher," or "we have a good band," but ideally they should go forth saying, "we have a great God." Keep that in mind. __________________ MySpace "That number don't mean nothing to me if the guitar don't sound right." - Buddy Guy on the year a guitar was manufactured.

May 25th, 2008, 08:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
Revman NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Plainfield, IL Age: 49 Posts: 2	Most Important elements 1. You can't lead people where you have not been. nuff said.

May 25th, 2008, 09:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
DADGAD Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palmdale, CA Posts: 764	Welcome Revman! Good point. __________________ "I need to learn some new scales and stop obsessing about this stuff." http://www.myspace.com/slickshoes

May 25th, 2008, 11:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 901	It may not be THE most important element, but could we get some songs on the worship list that have solid, theologically sound, Biblically truthful lyrics? I've been visiting churches the last few months and, while the musicianship is generally pretty good, I'm amazed at how many modern worship songs are disjointed, vague, or just plain don't make sense! Yet, they sound good, so they get played Sigh............ __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.brightredtie.com

June 11th, 2008, 10:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
GoldieLocks Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Posts: 821	Tunes I remember when I was going to Churches that used Hymn books (80-90's). Some of those hymns were so complicated musically we could barely sing them - or understand their meaning? I think the writers were trying to impress Mozart or Bach. Now they're so incredibly dumb and simple I can feel my I.Q. lowering as I sing them. But we still have 100's of great ones...so I'm happy With worship I try to always make sure the congregation is able to sing along. __________________ "How little I know inspires me tremendously! I'm a huge fan of other people's playing." Bonnie Raitt

June 11th, 2008, 11:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
unbridled Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dillon, Mt Age: 33 Posts: 241	I agree with everyone but would like to add that a good sound system and sound person are essential. Too loud / too quiet can be huge distractions and take the focus off of where it should be, on HIM. I think it is a very fine and difficult line to walk because the worship team needs to be focused on worship but they also are doing a job. The job is to help facilitate worship for the congregation. You have been annointed to do this job so, if you are able to help the congregation worship, you are actually worshiping by fullfilling your commitment to perform your job. Does this make any sense? I've just seen worship teams lost in the moment with the flock not even involved. __________________ Just about everything I say has been stolen from someone else.

June 18th, 2008, 09:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 901	Thanks for the tips, Wally. One of my favorite exercises is to write new tunes to old hymn lyrics. That way we can have beautiful, deep poetry as well as some rockin' (or otherwise appropriate) sounds. It's good to see you again. __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.brightredtie.com

June 23rd, 2008, 10:02 AM	#22 (permalink)
Ptrallan01 Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 547 3 Photos	Periodic Silence to reflect on the meaning of the lyrics periodic accapella singing to remind us that all we need to praise the Lord is our hearts __________________ Ooh, I want my guitar to sound like Jimmie Smith's organ!!!

June 23rd, 2008, 10:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 901	Mmmm good points, brother Peter. Good to see you again! __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.brightredtie.com

July 3rd, 2008, 02:33 AM	#24 (permalink)
HisFireWithin NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hanford, CA. Age: 30 Posts: 8	Opinions... So as to not break the "no theology discussion" rule, I'm going to stick to very practical stuff... 1. The leader must know how to arrange 2. The singers and musicians must be well rehearsed 3. Instruments must be in tune 4. The leader must intentionally engage those in the crowd...exhortations, interactivity, participation must be encouraged and reinforced. People will only go where they are led, and the leader must engage people. 5. The leader must know where he is leading the people, and with divine help, must create moments in the set for people to respond, interact, and internalize with the theme or focus. 6. The sound person must be properly trained and in sync with the platform leader in terms of where the gathering is going directionally and sonically. Incidentally, I believe it's very important for the sound crew to be treated as members of the team. 7. The senior leadership of the organization must all be on the same page directionally before the gathering. In short: 1. Have a plan 2. Be skilled at communicating the plan 3. Have everyone be on the same page with the plan 4. Make sure the plan comes from God 5. Lead the crowd in the plan