Which is more important, skill or passion?

DADGAD · May 20th, 2008, 10:37 AM

Our church just bought a new state of the art recording system. They will be recording the live P&W music and releasing a CD about every six months. It will be a compilation of the best songs.

Last week, my band was on and, knowing we would be recorded, I executed my guitar playing with my utmost skill and precision. Afterwards, my wife said that my playing was perfect but totally lacked my usual passion. She said that I should go back to my usual way of playing as that is what most people enjoy.

What do you think is most important; skill or passion?

Gary

HOBBSTER01 · May 20th, 2008, 10:45 AM

passion.
Skill is the building block,but passion evokes the mood of a piece.

magicguitar · May 20th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Passion! It just makes the difference. I've seen guitar players with all the skill in the world, but sound dull and lackluster AND on the other hand I've seen players with little skill that sounded GREAT because they put themselves into the song.

andy__woods · May 20th, 2008, 11:29 AM

skill without passion isn't good for worship (not necessarilly bad, but is indeed lacking). On the other hand though, passion without skill becomes noise. If someone is really passionate, but not a great instrumentalist, they can still be passionate from the congregation or wherever they may be. I think it takes a good combination of both.

Very cool though that your church is going to compile a cd! Let us know when it comes out, I'd be interested to give it a listen

CatfishStudios · May 20th, 2008, 11:36 AM

It is only through passion, that one develops skill.

neocaster · May 20th, 2008, 11:49 AM

If you're doing it for the right reason, passion. If you're trying to impress anyone, you're playing in the wrong place.

refin · May 20th, 2008, 11:55 AM

Passion (as a player) is something that flows from years of connecting your fingers with your heart and soul----passion for worship,no instrument necessary.

BAW4742 · May 20th, 2008, 11:58 AM

I think passion is more important. Passion for the music will lead to skill. Music should be emotional and with out passion it just becomes technical.

Try to forget about the record button and play from your heart.

GoldieLocks · May 20th, 2008, 01:46 PM

I've jammed with alot of people with skill but no passion. Its always boring.

Then again I've played with some people with passion & no skill...it was chaos everytime.

I believe music is ART and Math at the same time.

DADGAD · May 20th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Great insights. Thanks for helping me wrap my mind around this.

Would you say that the passion or soul of the playing always carries through in the final recording?

octatonic · May 20th, 2008, 02:39 PM

Has to be both.

I'm not sure these binary questions are at all meaningful- it is like say "which is better, oxygen or gravity?"

aunchaki · May 20th, 2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octatonic

Has to be both. I'm not sure these binary questions are at all meaningful- it is like say "which is better, oxygen or gravity?"

OK, that's funny!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Would you say that the passion or soul of the playing always carries through in the final recording?

I'm sure that different people hear different things in live or recorded music. I'm sure there are very passionate recordings that won't come off that way to me. Rather than worrying if you sound passionate, try to simply be passionate and see (er... hear) what happens.

Blessings...

scooteraz · May 21st, 2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octatonic

Has to be both.

I'm not sure these binary questions are at all meaningful- it is like say "which is better, oxygen or gravity?"

Actually, it this pair, gravity

Without gravity it would be hard to collect enough oxygen to be useful...

However, point taken. Still, I think of the pair, passion. As Goldilocks said, skill without passion is boring. Some of both is needed, but for any music that I can think of I will take a reasonably skilled player with great passion over the stylist with amazing skill and no passion.

Of course, I have "a dog in this hunt", since my passion is MUCH greater than my skill

so, you have to take my comments with that in mind.

stephwills · May 21st, 2008, 01:20 AM

Give me passion over skill any day. If you have passion, you'll eventually get the skill.

Of course, my passion far exceeds my skill. And if I'm careful, it always will be.

bobthecanadian · May 21st, 2008, 01:21 AM

Do whatever you think is best and play for an audience of one. As a performer of this type of music you are equipped/skilled to play the way that you do.

I have heard this same basic argument, in one form or another, since I first got involved in worship service playing. I like the way you put your question, which is 'more' important. I have heard too many times that it is an either/or question, which really misses the whole point.

Some have said that I, as a younger worship player, was focused on the skills and not passionate enough. Others said that I was too passionate and not focused enough on the skills. However, whenever I was playing for the audience of one it was never either, or both. It it always acceptable. So, go figure. I am sure that you are putting your best foot forward.

So which is more important? I think what is most important is to be focused on what you're singing/playing for. If it is playing well to get a good recording, then that's fine. If playing in P/W setting and the focus is a church worship setting, then that's okay, too. The only warning that I could think of is that combining the two could lead to a little danger. For example, if the performance is to impress a digital recorder, or some other type of recording device, then the focus has shifted.

My experience regarding this has taught me to ignore the extraneous stuff and focus on the One. Let the other guys doing the recording figure it out later. If it is a live recording, certain things are expected as it is not a studio recording. Do you best at both, playing with skill and withpassion! You will set yourself apart and that will be a wonderful blessing!

Cheers,

Bob

PraiseCaster · May 21st, 2008, 05:44 PM

Skill without passion is sterile, bland.

Passion without skill is a train wreck.

Play from your heart. There, the desires where put in for you, and that very same passion/desire will drive you to perfect the skills needed to play passionately from your heart.

Dont think, "I'm gonna record!", rather think, "I'm gonna lead in Praise and Worship!"

PraiseCaster · May 21st, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Would you say that the passion or soul of the playing always carries through in the final recording?

Good question!

I would say yes, but other than my opinion based on my own playing, I have nothing else to quantify this. I can tell when I am playing "detached" or engrossed into the song. I doubt many around me would be able to tell the difference, unless of course, they are guitarists too.

mudbean · May 21st, 2008, 06:02 PM

50 - 50

mud

three barrel · May 21st, 2008, 08:48 PM

Passion is emotion. Skill is the result of dedication to an art and some innate ability. Both are a part of worship. In the worship setting, passion without skill could quickly get in the way of a meaningful worship experience. Think of the times you have had a passionate, but awful voice blaring behind you in worship. You may say "bless their heart" for their passion, but it still grates on you like fingers on a chalk board, doesn't it? Likewise, if someone keeps playing clams on their instrument, it will bring an unwanted tension to the experience. So for me, skill first. We are there to lead OTHERS into a meaningful worship experience.

Beerts · May 21st, 2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldieLocks

I've jammed with alot of people with skill but no passion. Its always boring.

Then again I've played with some people with passion & no skill...it was chaos everytime.

I believe music is ART and Math at the same time.

well put!

DADGAD · May 22nd, 2008, 10:01 AM

We are to, "...play skillfully..." and I do not see passion "mentioned" part of the equation. Therein lies the basis for my OP.

I had no problem delivering a perfect execution of the performed piece. However, when I play with more passion I tend to not play each verse, chorus or refrain exactly alike. Perhaps all those years of music study, chart reading, jazz, theory, song writing and guitar lessons has ruined music for me. Ha!

Perhaps it must be a blend of both; skillful playing with the realization that someone is examining the guitarist's heart or passion at the same time. We all know that nothing performed musically is ever hidden from the listener. You can't "lie" when playing guitar. Especially on a Tele....

Gary

tom grossheider · May 22nd, 2008, 12:08 PM

It isn't either/or, to worship as God intends I believe they both play an integral part of the worship experience. Passion is more an emotion, and personally speaking I am not always emotional ready to play. But if I use my skill to execute well, eventually the emotions (passion being one of them) will follow suit. My desire to worship God and to please Him in all things is what drives my desire to play well. Passion comes and goes, obedience does not.

Pickalittle · May 26th, 2008, 02:36 AM

Both. Skill first.

hotraman · May 26th, 2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADGAD

Great insights. Thanks for helping me wrap my mind around this.

Would you say that the passion or soul of the playing always carries through in the final recording?

Not all the time.
You'll know if you captured it, when you listen to your playback.
Its hard to do.
Like others have posted, with a blend of both.

May 20th, 2008, 10:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
DADGAD Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palmdale, CA Posts: 764	Which is more important, skill or passion? Our church just bought a new state of the art recording system. They will be recording the live P&W music and releasing a CD about every six months. It will be a compilation of the best songs. Last week, my band was on and, knowing we would be recorded, I executed my guitar playing with my utmost skill and precision. Afterwards, my wife said that my playing was perfect but totally lacked my usual passion. She said that I should go back to my usual way of playing as that is what most people enjoy. What do you think is most important; skill or passion? Gary __________________ "I need to learn some new scales and stop obsessing about this stuff." http://www.myspace.com/slickshoes

May 20th, 2008, 10:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
HOBBSTER01 Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North GA. Posts: 549	passion. Skill is the building block,but passion evokes the mood of a piece. __________________ The Hobbster

May 20th, 2008, 11:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
andy__woods Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 23 Posts: 1,158 60 Photos	skill without passion isn't good for worship (not necessarilly bad, but is indeed lacking). On the other hand though, passion without skill becomes noise. If someone is really passionate, but not a great instrumentalist, they can still be passionate from the congregation or wherever they may be. I think it takes a good combination of both. Very cool though that your church is going to compile a cd! Let us know when it comes out, I'd be interested to give it a listen __________________ -- Andy "Woods" Crowder --

May 20th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
neocaster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester County, PA Age: 35 Posts: 3,518 11 Photos	If you're doing it for the right reason, passion. If you're trying to impress anyone, you're playing in the wrong place. __________________ "...You don't need faith if you know it's gonna work!" "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

May 20th, 2008, 11:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
refin Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 52 Posts: 1,962	Passion (as a player) is something that flows from years of connecting your fingers with your heart and soul----passion for worship,no instrument necessary. __________________ "For You,Lord,are good,and ready to forgive,and abundant in mercy to all those who call upon You." Ps. 86:5 http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/refin_music.htm MASTER VOLUME? WHAT'S A MASTER VOLUME?

May 20th, 2008, 10:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
magicguitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fallon, Nevada Age: 60 Posts: 548	Passion! It just makes the difference. I've seen guitar players with all the skill in the world, but sound dull and lackluster AND on the other hand I've seen players with little skill that sounded GREAT because they put themselves into the song.

May 20th, 2008, 11:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
CatfishStudios Banned Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon , United States Age: 33 Posts: 727	It is only through passion, that one develops skill.

May 20th, 2008, 11:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
BAW4742 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland's Eastern Shore Age: 51 Posts: 630	I think passion is more important. Passion for the music will lead to skill. Music should be emotional and with out passion it just becomes technical. Try to forget about the record button and play from your heart.

May 20th, 2008, 01:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
GoldieLocks Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Posts: 833	skill or passion? I've jammed with alot of people with skill but no passion. Its always boring. Then again I've played with some people with passion & no skill...it was chaos everytime. I believe music is ART and Math at the same time. __________________ "How little I know inspires me tremendously! I'm a huge fan of other people's playing." Bonnie Raitt

May 20th, 2008, 02:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
DADGAD Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palmdale, CA Posts: 764	Great insights. Thanks for helping me wrap my mind around this. Would you say that the passion or soul of the playing always carries through in the final recording? __________________ "I need to learn some new scales and stop obsessing about this stuff." http://www.myspace.com/slickshoes

May 20th, 2008, 02:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
octatonic Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2007 Location: An Australian in London. Posts: 1,642	Has to be both. I'm not sure these binary questions are at all meaningful- it is like say "which is better, oxygen or gravity?" __________________ "A jazz musician is a juggler who uses harmonies instead of oranges." Benny Green

May 21st, 2008, 01:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
stephwills Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 257	Give me passion over skill any day. If you have passion, you'll eventually get the skill. Of course, my passion far exceeds my skill. And if I'm careful, it always will be. __________________ steph Think I'll just stay here and drink ...

May 21st, 2008, 01:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
bobthecanadian Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Age: 42 Posts: 1,536	My two cents worth. Do whatever you think is best and play for an audience of one. As a performer of this type of music you are equipped/skilled to play the way that you do. I have heard this same basic argument, in one form or another, since I first got involved in worship service playing. I like the way you put your question, which is 'more' important. I have heard too many times that it is an either/or question, which really misses the whole point. Some have said that I, as a younger worship player, was focused on the skills and not passionate enough. Others said that I was too passionate and not focused enough on the skills. However, whenever I was playing for the audience of one it was never either, or both. It it always acceptable. So, go figure. I am sure that you are putting your best foot forward. So which is more important? I think what is most important is to be focused on what you're singing/playing for. If it is playing well to get a good recording, then that's fine. If playing in P/W setting and the focus is a church worship setting, then that's okay, too. The only warning that I could think of is that combining the two could lead to a little danger. For example, if the performance is to impress a digital recorder, or some other type of recording device, then the focus has shifted. My experience regarding this has taught me to ignore the extraneous stuff and focus on the One. Let the other guys doing the recording figure it out later. If it is a live recording, certain things are expected as it is not a studio recording. Do you best at both, playing with skill and withpassion! You will set yourself apart and that will be a wonderful blessing! Cheers, Bob __________________ It don't mean a thang if it ain't got that TWANG!!!

May 21st, 2008, 05:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
PraiseCaster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Whittier, California Posts: 4,310 16 Photos	Skill without passion is sterile, bland. Passion without skill is a train wreck. Play from your heart. There, the desires where put in for you, and that very same passion/desire will drive you to perfect the skills needed to play passionately from your heart. Dont think, "I'm gonna record!", rather think, "I'm gonna lead in Praise and Worship!" __________________ Later! PraiseCaster Visit Guitarists Praise and Worship Forum!! Dance Like David, MySpace

May 21st, 2008, 06:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
mudbean Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SoCal Semi-Desert Semi-Paradise Age: 49 Posts: 1,675	50 - 50 mud __________________ www.mudbean.com "Do ya want it to be interesting, or do ya want it to be true?" "So far, it's neither."

May 21st, 2008, 08:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
three barrel Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wichita, KS Age: 53 Posts: 119	Passion is emotion. Skill is the result of dedication to an art and some innate ability. Both are a part of worship. In the worship setting, passion without skill could quickly get in the way of a meaningful worship experience. Think of the times you have had a passionate, but awful voice blaring behind you in worship. You may say "bless their heart" for their passion, but it still grates on you like fingers on a chalk board, doesn't it? Likewise, if someone keeps playing clams on their instrument, it will bring an unwanted tension to the experience. So for me, skill first. We are there to lead OTHERS into a meaningful worship experience.

May 22nd, 2008, 10:01 AM	#21 (permalink)
DADGAD Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palmdale, CA Posts: 764	We are to, "...play skillfully..." and I do not see passion "mentioned" part of the equation. Therein lies the basis for my OP. I had no problem delivering a perfect execution of the performed piece. However, when I play with more passion I tend to not play each verse, chorus or refrain exactly alike. Perhaps all those years of music study, chart reading, jazz, theory, song writing and guitar lessons has ruined music for me. Ha! Perhaps it must be a blend of both; skillful playing with the realization that someone is examining the guitarist's heart or passion at the same time. We all know that nothing performed musically is ever hidden from the listener. You can't "lie" when playing guitar. Especially on a Tele.... Gary __________________ "I need to learn some new scales and stop obsessing about this stuff." http://www.myspace.com/slickshoes

May 22nd, 2008, 12:08 PM	#22 (permalink)
tom grossheider Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mokena, IL Posts: 730	It isn't either/or, to worship as God intends I believe they both play an integral part of the worship experience. Passion is more an emotion, and personally speaking I am not always emotional ready to play. But if I use my skill to execute well, eventually the emotions (passion being one of them) will follow suit. My desire to worship God and to please Him in all things is what drives my desire to play well. Passion comes and goes, obedience does not.

May 26th, 2008, 02:36 AM	#23 (permalink)
Pickalittle Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Age: 56 Posts: 292	Both. Skill first. __________________ Don't die with the music still in you! Psalm 150

May 26th, 2008, 03:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
tjalla Tele-Afflicted