How do you hook to PA with your electric?

[SatelliteOrders]

Originally Posted by Jenix

I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

It's his way of saying "Go away, kid. You're bothering me". At least, that's my guess.

At my church, we go a long way to minimize the volume on stage. Drummer in a cage. Used to be, synth drums. Every stringed instrument get D/I boxes. In-ear monitors for all the musicians and the worship leader. Axioms, as mentioned. The other other guy uses a Boss GT-7 among lots of other multieffect choices. I uses a ToneWorks AX1500G, which is a bit of a toy compared to the Boss, but I can make it work. I have a bank of tones for my acoustic/electric and the rest set up for the Tele.

Does your amp have a headphone out? I used to do that, before I got the good rig.

[buddywayne]

I use my Roland Cube 20. I was really surprised at how good it sounds.

[junk126]

I've used my POD XT Live hooked up to a Tech 21 Power Engine 60 for several years. It works great, as I can set the volume of the amp independent of the signal going to the board. This lets me turn up a little if I can't hear myself as well as I need to, but not loud enough to anger the sound guy or affect overall stage volume too much. I turn it facing me and tilt it back a bit. The open back of the cab faces the congregation. There's usually a small riser behind it so that helps since it's an open back cab.
Another option is one I used before I got my PODXTL. I have a small Marshall Lead 12, which is the older version of the Micro Stack they have now. It's a 12 watt solid state head with 2 separate 10" speaker cabs. I used the slanted cab with the head onstage and ran a long speaker cord to the other cab miked up with an SM57 under the stage. This worked really well also. Not as versatile as the PODXTL option, but, not much is when compared to all the stuff packed in there.

[jnapruitt]

I have been using a LINE 6 POD for about 6 years. I have it tweaked for all of my guitars with each guitar set up on it's own bank. My sound guys love it! Mine is dialed in and sounds amazing! I can go direct into my Marshall 8200 or direct into the board... sweet as honey.

Good luck and God Bless!

PJ

[scooteraz]

Currently I am using a Princeton Recording Amp. It has a DI out with independent volume. It also has the built in anttenuator. I currently love this solution.

This has been a superior solution to other low power amps or the POD (have two, ad POD II and a XT Live; the XT Live is better but still not a real amp). With low power amps, if you turn up to the point where you can get some good dirt during practice, the singers get it in their head that you are too loud and need to turn down. However, at the same volume during actual performances/worship, the overall level is so high that they cannot tell how loud you are if that is the only time you are at a specific level. So...you are left with practicing at a lower volume and only turn up during the service or antenuating somehow.

You could use your regular amp and a THD Hotplate. Those actually work pretty nicely, but I was only able to borrow one for a while, never bought one. A bit spendy at ~$350 delivered to your door, but not as bad as buying the Princeton (go figure on my priorities). There are other attenuators out there that have good reviews, maybe some are better than the Hotplate, but the hotplate has a PA out as well as the anttenuated signal to the speakers.

POD works OK. Most of the folks in the pews cannot really tell when everything goes through the POD. However, one thing is you ability to monitor your own playing is either you need a guitar only chanel (or an instruments channel) from the sound board, or you will only hear the final mix. We have been having problems with our guitar only monitor at our church, so...the guitars have a hard time hearing what they are doing. You can play the POD locally through an acoustic amp (I have used my AER) but...then there is yet another item in the link. POD, et. al. have the great advantage of being designed to provide output to a PA (although niether of mine have XLR outputs, need a matching transformer).

With the Princeton Recording, I leave the anttenuator volume down for practice, and turn it up for the worship, but the tones are pretty much the same. Use the DI out for the board. The built in effects are pretty good too. Not as cool as some of my better pedals, but if I want those instead, I can put my pedalboard in front of the Princeton. Best solution so far (short of a bigger building!)

[guit30]

My friend goes thru a LR Baggs Para Di and sounds real good, he used a Boss DD2 Delay first
Jim

[slashblack]

Well, IMO, it's hard to get good vintage tone out of a modeler. I always mic an amp. Of course, I do very modern worship music with distortion and the whole nine yards with effects. What style of worship do you do? Also, what type of PA gear are you running?

For instance, with modern worship and IEMs, my set up will be very different. But, I mic a Marshall 4x12 off stage and just run it into my ears as loud as I want. If you have an independent mix or have a person that will share with you, this is a good option. Just hearing an amp onstage will be different than what is heard through the front of house. Of course, the monitor will sound different from the front of house, but in finding your tone, hearing the cab/mic combo is very helpful.

The best thing with micing off stage is that the sound guys won't be so agitated by the inner guitar player- you know the one wants to crank it up;). You'll be able to turn up a tube amp more and get a better tone without scaring the church or your engineer. The sound isolation makes their job easier. There is a good chance that from the other comments, your sound crew doesn't know the difference between what's coming from your amp and what is in the front of house(basically, they need to control it).

Good luck and God bless!

[Schundog]

We mike my Vox AD50VT backstage (walled off from the congregation) and it works great. Sure I can't adjust anything on the amp during the service, but I have my pedals in front of me. Not optimal, but the amp onstage was too loud for our situation. I tried my PodXT, Meh. Contemporary stuff, Casting Crowns, Robbie Seay, David Crowder, etc.

[Jenix]

I think I may just give my sound guy the link to this thread

[giantslayer]

Originally Posted by giantslayer

I personally use a Vox Tonelab LE. It delivers some very nice, organic tones. The one downside is that the cab sim is mic'd on-axis and that's not adjustable. So, if you put that signal straight into a device like a Tech 21 Power Engine or Atomic amp and treat it like a regular guitar amp, it'll work great. But when you put it straight to headphones or live, it's really harsh. Point your ear directly at your guitar speaker and you get an idea of what I'm talking about.

The fortunate thing is this can be easiliy fixed with further EQ'ing. As you get a little off axis from a 12" speaker, you mainly lose the highs above 2-3k. So I got a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal and I cut the top two bands by several dB's. If you had it wired up to a mixer, you could center the mids at 5K and cut 3-6dB's. That would also fix it.

You might ask why I don't just use a modeler that has a selectable mic position? Because the Tonelab has an organic tube-like tone and feel to it that can't be added in to another modeler with EQ's.

I posted this earlier in the thread. I have since switched the tonelab from "line" mode to "amp" mode, which has a lot less highs and doesn't need an external EQ anymore. I did have to turn the treble settings on the amp models up a bunch, but I had the treble below 1 most of the time with Line mode, anyways.

I did an A/B test of my tone direct vs my tone mic'd through the Tech 21 Power Engine. The direct tone sounded the same as through headphones. I've actually come to a realization that the speaker sim on the tonelab isn't all that good - kindof 2-dimensional. However, the Tech 21 Power Engine has a real speaker and brings to the table what the Tonelab is lacking. They sound very good together (indistinguishable from a real tube amp) and very good mic'd. One advantage to this setup over a real amp is that the overdriven power amp tone comes from the Tonelab, not the amp, so it doesn't need to be cranked to get a better tone. (Of course, it still sounds way better loud.)

On mic position, the best position I found with my setup was the mic about 3-4 inches away, perpendicular to the amp, positioned about halfway between the center and edge of the speaker.

[Jazzphone]

We hook mic my cab off of the stage of my church. So the sound is directed away from the congregation and we leave my head on stage so I can still mess with it. It sounds great...much more natural.

Here is a video of how it sounds...you make the call. Tele with SuperSonic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpEsE__sjaI

[J-Twang]

I prefer to just mic my amp... our sound guy is good, and he and I both agree that the sound is better this way. Plus, since I'm one of the few without any monitors nearby, it helps me out alot.

[JAMilrod]

We've had volume problems on stage, so I went away from micing my amp. It's also nice to not have to lug it around since I play elsewhere. I use my standard pedal board and can either plug in to my vintage Fender tubes, or in to a SansAMP ParaDriver DI and into the board.

I've been playing for 30+ years, have toured and recorded, and am pretty saavy about tone with vintage amps and guitars - but in the house mix, I think this sounds pretty good. This also keeps everyone happier on stage and gives our hard working sound volunteers better control. Did I mention I don't have to lug my valuable amps?

The newer SansAmp Character series also looks interesting, but I'm pretty happy with my ParaDriver DI (it also works well for acoustics).

[Southpaw Tele]

This will sound really cheesy, but I picked up a Pocketpod for church work (my RP200 went south on me).

Pros: portable! I can fit it in the case with my Tele.

Cons: tone! It's tinny sounding and needs tweaking to get the right sounds. effects! the chorus is almost useless. no footswitch!

I'm really tempted to use my Toneport GX and laptop this weekend, but I'm unsure of how much RF noise I'll get. The toneport is WAY better than the pocketpod.

[telechucker]

+1 on the Roland Cube amps. I use a 60w model - gets a great tone (IMO) and the sound guys love the fact that it has a line out on the back. Even though it's a 60w I keep it turned down and it sounds good. You just have to be prepared to spend a bit of time with the amp and find it's sweet spots. The grit / od settings are good too - I use the "Modern Metal" od sound but run it a bit cleaner. A first class amp. Great for everything. Regards.

[robbysturgis]

press your face flat against the tolex....



Sennheiser

doubles as a backup vocal mic as well:::



but you gotta play like this guy.

[cpeters01]

Here's a few things I do...
-use an amp pointed at my head. (I usually don't move around too much) I put it on the floor and tilt it back with a little triangle of aluminum that I build for that exact purpose. My amp is a Marshall JCM900 that I run in the half power setting, usually the master is set to slightly under 3. Sometimes I use my 1963 Harmony 303A (champ sort of clone) but it gets lost very quickly if I don't have a good monitor mix. I am going to try micing a cabinet off/back stage though.
-mic the cabinet (I use a Shure sm57) and place it facing the cone of the speaker but at about a 30 degree angle or almost parallel to the side wall of the speaker. DON'T let the sound guy hang a mic in front of your speaker..sounds like poo...
-I have tried the direct box route and more often than not I get noise/buzz or worse...radio interference. You can never trust church wiring.
-I use a modeler direct to the amp to be able to get all the different kinds of effects I need without having a huge pedal board. Just a little Behringer X-vamp. I build a half dozen custom entries that have what I need all in consecutive patches so I can get to them fast and modify them slightly with the 'expression' pedal build onto the effect (IE turn the delay on or off or vary the timing, etc)
-smile lots

Cheers

[pshuffield]

Shure sm57 slightly off center from the speaker cone. Get a reasonable stage volume and pray that the sound man has a good ear for how a guitar should sound.

[CaptainJangle]

Originally Posted by Jenix

I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

what is the Watts of the amp, i use a Twin Reverb, and as long as i use the angleback legs or a tilting amp stand there usually is never a problem with it. the thing i did was buy my own mic(sm57), because the soundman would just toss a vocal mic infront of it, and i did some research on mic placement with amps.

most soundguys at churches dont know anything about micing an amp, so do some research on micing techniques and that might make things easier.

the real fixer i think was using the SM57 because the vocal mics where alot higher output making it hard to control the mic'ed signal into the PA.

[Rick Towne]

On electric guitar I've gone through a mic'd amp in every service I've played in for the last fifteen years; from the L.A. Coliseum and Greek Theatre, to local megachurches to small 30 person meetings and have never had a problem getting the right volume and tone for the venue. No pods or other direct devices, and I'm not sure I could do that...or would have any interest in trying. It would be like a keyboardist with all programmed tracks. The amp for the last four years is a 2x6L6 1x12 Allen Old Flame.