Suggestions please - Tame that icepick!

G_Man · February 25th, 2008, 02:55 PM

HI Everyone

I have been reading round the forums as I am looking for an answer to the questoin - How can I tame the ice pick in my 2006 US Tele and retain some recognisable tele tone.

It is a 2 colour sunburst with a BKP Mississippi Queen P90 in the neck (Amazing..keeping it...try one..)

Maple neck and board

4 position switch

stock tone pot

I want to get a smoother, more middle n bass less glass shattering icepick bridge sound with beef - rock/blues rather than chicken pickin.

Choices are
Rio Grande Muy Grande
Dimarzio Pre-B1
Dimarzio Virtual hot
SD STL2

I don't like winding the tone back as it makes it a pain to swithc to the p90 as that needs fully open tone.

I have read a lot of posts and know a lot is subjective. I even considered brass saddles. What do you guys suggest for taming the icepick.

FredDairy · February 25th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Brass saddles will tame it a bit. I love that "peel the paint off the walls" screaming sound of a Telecaster. I've always admired how Robbie Robertson and Mike Bloomfield just cranked those mid-60s teles and ripped away. But that doesn't help you.

Steve Cropper had essentially the same guitar Bloomfield and Robertson had and Cropper's tone is much less ice picky and that's because he'd just simply roll back the tone knob.

Is it really that difficult to just roll back the tone knob and then readjust it for your p90? It sounds like you really want a Gibson Les Paul Goldtop.

ganttmann · February 25th, 2008, 03:18 PM

The amp matters. What do you play thru?

Also - Try rolling your tone control back a little.

Gantt

pengipete · February 25th, 2008, 03:27 PM

Don't forget the EQ or tone controls of the amp and especially any pedals in use.

Your perception of sound is also influenced by the environment so an empty rehearsal room with mostly hard surfaces will reflect more treble sound back to your ears. In a room with soft seating and even softer people you'll could lose too much if you only setup for the practice room.

Axis29 · February 25th, 2008, 03:31 PM

Check the pickup height too.

Lance was over at the house last week and had me grab two nickels and a screwdriver. I actually raised my bridge pickup up just about 3/32? maybe less and it tamed the icepick right out of it. Suddenly sounded fantastic!

He said the nickels were an Ole Fuzzy trick that he's been using for years. I think I like it's simplicity and results! Try it before spending any money. Less of course you gotta get change!

teleyouk · February 25th, 2008, 03:44 PM

As I previously said in another topic, the US tele bridge PU has no baseplate.
Replacing it by any baseplate-equipped pickup can give enhanced basses for a less edgy sound; In your case, it's better to get one with a copper plate rather than tin silver ; the first one is the choice for a more tamed sound; (it's really true! I' ve made the experience in comparing the sound with each baseplate type for the same pickup; definitely there's a difference).

G_Man · February 25th, 2008, 03:57 PM

Thanks for the quick replies guys. I know it is easy to just roll the tone off. I suppose the shrillness of it is subjective and Robertson did good - but I don't have a Bassman! I use either a Laney VC30 - Class A but with a crappy Chinese Celestion and probably dubious valves, or a Marshall DSL50 into a 2x12, which sounds great esp with the deep switch in.

Thing is at home I use a computer programme called amplitube2 and the Jimi Hendrix version of it too. I have a 1 year old ankle nibbler and volume is an issue at night so this is an easy headphones fix. I suppose it is here that I most notice it and the psychoacoustics of headphones wont help. It just sounds like it needs some middle. I am getting a THD Hot PLate soon so maybe I will see how it sounds with that then re-assess.

Or maybe I am just looking for an excuse to buy some new stuff

Thanks guys - btw seriously, the P90 neck option is a great move and I wont be changing that anytime soon. Maybe I could just bypass the neck P90 from the tone circuit

TG · February 25th, 2008, 05:32 PM

An alnico2 bridge pickup will help a lot, especially if you keep an alnico5 pickup at the neck. The alnico2 magnets smooth the top end a bit but it still sounds classic 'telecaster'.

I used a Duncan AlnicoIIPro bridge pup for years with a regular USA Fender standard neck pup. Worked a treat and I could play all night with all 3 positions without having to touch the tone control.
But lately I've been using Dimarzio Virtual Vintage tele bridge pups...which are alnico2... and Fender Vintage Noiseless neck pups. Virtually the same sound and response as the above, but noiseless.
I won't be doing any more pickup experimenting on this telecaster. This is it.

The Dimarzio VVtele regular output pup is my favorite, but it's been replaced in the Dimarzio line by the AreaT model. I assume it's much the same.

I've also got a VVtele hot bridge pickup on another guitar which also is very good. Just a tiny bit more like a P90 then the regular one, but still 'telecaster'.

w0odman · February 25th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Man

Thanks guys - btw seriously, the P90 neck option is a great move and I wont be changing that anytime soon. Maybe I could just bypass the neck P90 from the tone circuit

All that you have to do is move the wire that goes from the tone pot to the volume pot. Make it go to the same lug on the switch where the bridge pup lead wire is. You'll most likely need a wire that is a bit longer. I've done this on my tele that has a neck humbucker.

RomanS · February 25th, 2008, 07:18 PM

The easiest and cheapest thing you could try is wiring a load capacitor parallel to your bridge pikckup - just get some small value silver mica caps (from around 100 pF to around 820pF (they only cost a few cents a piece, so you better get a selection to experiment), and solder one, with one leg at the point where the hot wire from the bridge pickup is connected to the switch; the other leg of the cap is soldered to ground.

This will lower the resonance frequency of your pickup a bit, so you will get more mids and less icepick; by choosing the right value, you can make changes from very subtle to rather extreme!

Oh, and if this doesn't work for you (and I really want to encourage you to try - this worked extremely well for taming the harsh treble on a lap steel I built, and right now I'm experimenting with this to make the Nocaster pickup on my Thinline sound a bit jazzier/darker), really try a Seymour Duncan Alnico II pickup: plenty of twang, but more warmth and less icepick!

tlsmack · February 25th, 2008, 09:37 PM

I have an Am Std that needed taming, SD Alnico II Pro and Tusq saddles did the trick for me. Elixir strings also help warm up a shrill tele.
Still sounds like a tele, just without harsh overtones. The Tusq saddles really give a well balanced tone.

Geo · February 25th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Back off on the tone control and if a DBX tone control back to the
middle detend then a tad more after.

February 25th, 2008, 02:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
G_Man TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lancashire U.K Posts: 12	Suggestions please - Tame that icepick! HI Everyone I have been reading round the forums as I am looking for an answer to the questoin - How can I tame the ice pick in my 2006 US Tele and retain some recognisable tele tone. It is a 2 colour sunburst with a BKP Mississippi Queen P90 in the neck (Amazing..keeping it...try one..) Maple neck and board 4 position switch stock tone pot I want to get a smoother, more middle n bass less glass shattering icepick bridge sound with beef - rock/blues rather than chicken pickin. Choices are Rio Grande Muy Grande Dimarzio Pre-B1 Dimarzio Virtual hot SD STL2 I don't like winding the tone back as it makes it a pain to swithc to the p90 as that needs fully open tone. I have read a lot of posts and know a lot is subjective. I even considered brass saddles. What do you guys suggest for taming the icepick. __________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Dr Hunter S Thompson 1938-2005

February 25th, 2008, 03:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
FredDairy Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: chicago Posts: 708	Brass saddles will tame it a bit. I love that "peel the paint off the walls" screaming sound of a Telecaster. I've always admired how Robbie Robertson and Mike Bloomfield just cranked those mid-60s teles and ripped away. But that doesn't help you. Steve Cropper had essentially the same guitar Bloomfield and Robertson had and Cropper's tone is much less ice picky and that's because he'd just simply roll back the tone knob. Is it really that difficult to just roll back the tone knob and then readjust it for your p90? It sounds like you really want a Gibson Les Paul Goldtop. __________________ The Stacks The Reluctant Aquanauts

February 25th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
ganttmann TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland Age: 56 Posts: 93	The amp matters. What do you play thru? Also - Try rolling your tone control back a little. Gantt __________________ Gantt Kushner Gizmo Recording Company Silver Spring, Maryland www.gizmorecording.com

February 25th, 2008, 03:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Axis29 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 40 Posts: 1,069 1 Photos	Check the pickup height too. Lance was over at the house last week and had me grab two nickels and a screwdriver. I actually raised my bridge pickup up just about 3/32? maybe less and it tamed the icepick right out of it. Suddenly sounded fantastic! He said the nickels were an Ole Fuzzy trick that he's been using for years. I think I like it's simplicity and results! Try it before spending any money. Less of course you gotta get change! __________________ John F. TDPRI # 1764

February 25th, 2008, 03:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
G_Man TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lancashire U.K Posts: 12	Thanks for the quick replies guys. I know it is easy to just roll the tone off. I suppose the shrillness of it is subjective and Robertson did good - but I don't have a Bassman! I use either a Laney VC30 - Class A but with a crappy Chinese Celestion and probably dubious valves, or a Marshall DSL50 into a 2x12, which sounds great esp with the deep switch in. Thing is at home I use a computer programme called amplitube2 and the Jimi Hendrix version of it too. I have a 1 year old ankle nibbler and volume is an issue at night so this is an easy headphones fix. I suppose it is here that I most notice it and the psychoacoustics of headphones wont help. It just sounds like it needs some middle. I am getting a THD Hot PLate soon so maybe I will see how it sounds with that then re-assess. Or maybe I am just looking for an excuse to buy some new stuff Thanks guys - btw seriously, the P90 neck option is a great move and I wont be changing that anytime soon. Maybe I could just bypass the neck P90 from the tone circuit __________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Dr Hunter S Thompson 1938-2005

February 25th, 2008, 03:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
pengipete Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gloucester U.K. Age: 47 Posts: 1,583	Don't forget the EQ or tone controls of the amp and especially any pedals in use. Your perception of sound is also influenced by the environment so an empty rehearsal room with mostly hard surfaces will reflect more treble sound back to your ears. In a room with soft seating and even softer people you'll could lose too much if you only setup for the practice room.

February 25th, 2008, 03:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
teleyouk Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paris; FRANCE Age: 49 Posts: 161	As I previously said in another topic, the US tele bridge PU has no baseplate. Replacing it by any baseplate-equipped pickup can give enhanced basses for a less edgy sound; In your case, it's better to get one with a copper plate rather than tin silver ; the first one is the choice for a more tamed sound; (it's really true! I' ve made the experience in comparing the sound with each baseplate type for the same pickup; definitely there's a difference).

February 25th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
TG Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Beside a bog in the west of Ireland Age: 47 Posts: 4,500 7 Photos	An alnico2 bridge pickup will help a lot, especially if you keep an alnico5 pickup at the neck. The alnico2 magnets smooth the top end a bit but it still sounds classic 'telecaster'. I used a Duncan AlnicoIIPro bridge pup for years with a regular USA Fender standard neck pup. Worked a treat and I could play all night with all 3 positions without having to touch the tone control. But lately I've been using Dimarzio Virtual Vintage tele bridge pups...which are alnico2... and Fender Vintage Noiseless neck pups. Virtually the same sound and response as the above, but noiseless. I won't be doing any more pickup experimenting on this telecaster. This is it. The Dimarzio VVtele regular output pup is my favorite, but it's been replaced in the Dimarzio line by the AreaT model. I assume it's much the same. I've also got a VVtele hot bridge pickup on another guitar which also is very good. Just a tiny bit more like a P90 then the regular one, but still 'telecaster'.

February 25th, 2008, 07:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
RomanS Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vienna, Austria Age: 37 Posts: 2,890 14 Photos	The easiest and cheapest thing you could try is wiring a load capacitor parallel to your bridge pikckup - just get some small value silver mica caps (from around 100 pF to around 820pF (they only cost a few cents a piece, so you better get a selection to experiment), and solder one, with one leg at the point where the hot wire from the bridge pickup is connected to the switch; the other leg of the cap is soldered to ground. This will lower the resonance frequency of your pickup a bit, so you will get more mids and less icepick; by choosing the right value, you can make changes from very subtle to rather extreme! Oh, and if this doesn't work for you (and I really want to encourage you to try - this worked extremely well for taming the harsh treble on a lap steel I built, and right now I'm experimenting with this to make the Nocaster pickup on my Thinline sound a bit jazzier/darker), really try a Seymour Duncan Alnico II pickup: plenty of twang, but more warmth and less icepick! __________________ http://www.pbase.com/romans http://www.myspace.com/romans212

February 25th, 2008, 09:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
tlsmack Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lonk I-lant, New York Posts: 373 42 Photos	I have an Am Std that needed taming, SD Alnico II Pro and Tusq saddles did the trick for me. Elixir strings also help warm up a shrill tele. Still sounds like a tele, just without harsh overtones. The Tusq saddles really give a well balanced tone.

February 25th, 2008, 09:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Geo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hendersonville, TN Age: 59 Posts: 2,484 15 Photos	Back off on the tone control and if a DBX tone control back to the middle detend then a tad more after. __________________ "Somewhere between culture and agriculture"