Flamey necks and old Teles

jz63 · January 25th, 2008, 04:29 AM

I was looking at some Custom Shop and AV52's the other day and I noticed that quite a few had really flamey maple necks. Did Fender send out many guitars in the 1950's with highly flamed necks?

Telemarkman · January 25th, 2008, 05:58 AM

Very few actually. Leo didn't like the thought of a standard guitar having a "custom" feature like that. But as always there were exceptions.

My 2004 '52RI has a very subtle flame pattern on the neck - absolutely beautiful

.

Scotland · January 25th, 2008, 06:04 AM

Leo was very much against elitism and therefore did not produce a flame neck unless it was part of the whole block used.
Custom shop uses it extensively. I always think that a real flamed or birdseye neck looks just so wrong on a Nocaster, 57 Strat etc.

J-man · January 25th, 2008, 06:06 AM

I've seen a few older Teles on eBay with flamed necks, never flamed to the degree that you see on modern guitars marketed as having flamed necks, but it does seem more commonplace on older ones than on newer Teles.

That's my extremely non-professional observation.

gtrman911 · January 25th, 2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

Very few actually. Leo didn't like the thought of a standard guitar having a "custom" feature like that. But as always there were exceptions.
My 2004 '52RI has a very subtle flame pattern on the neck - absolutely beautiful

.

he actually recognized the diff?....in the 50's?!?.......!!!!!

so can you show some examples of a *custom* AUTHENTIC 50's tele?
or a 50's tele w/ SPECIFIC custom features that was SPECIFICALLY ORDERED that way?

---------
and fwiw, i have an 88 stand i bought and had NO flame, but today, 20 yrs later, it's almost outta control w/ flames!

ehawley · January 25th, 2008, 07:14 AM

I think that I read somewhere that flamed and birdseye necks where thought to be unstable and where stayed away from in the 50s and 60s. Hmmm...

Telemarkman · January 25th, 2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrman911

he actually recognized the diff?....in the 50's?!?.......!!!!!

so can you show some examples of a *custom* AUTHENTIC 50's tele?
or a 50's tele w/ SPECIFIC custom features that was SPECIFICALLY ORDERED that way?

There's no reason to sound so shocked. The 50's wasn't the stone age

. The first "custom made" Telecaster to my knowledge was Jimi Bryant's early 50's whiteguard. (Call it "customized" if you like).

Leo always worked in close collaboration with guitar players, and you can bet he made some special orders for more than one of them.

Notice I put "custom" in inverted commas. Leo felt that flame necks was too fancy for a standard workingman's guitar, and should really be avoided. This is a well known fact, confirmed by people who worked with him.

I read Scotland's post to say the same thing.

Richdonald · January 25th, 2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

There's no reason to sound so shocked. The 50's wasn't the stone age

. The first "custom made" Telecaster to my knowledge was Jimi Bryant's early 50's whiteguard. (Call it "customized" if you like).

Leo always worked in close collaboration with guitar players, and you can bet he made some special orders for more than one of them.

Notice I put "custom" in inverted commas. Leo felt that flame necks was too fancy for a standard workingman's guitar, and should really be avoided. This is a well known fact, confirmed by people who worked with him.

I read Scotland's post to say the same thing.

I'd always heard the "unstable" explanation, but I'd just assumed that the flamey wood wasn't considered because of cost. Fenders were supposed to be low-cost working guiars.

TeleSlim · January 25th, 2008, 10:06 AM

is what was desirable for a neck as fine and straight as possible. I see discussion about why are so many Squire necks flamed. The less stable ones go onto the lower end production.
I have never had a bad twisted, bent or warped neck and have never re adjusted a neck after my first few days of tweekin.
sorry about the tangent.

TeleASlim

brianwenz · January 25th, 2008, 10:34 AM

Hello Hello--
I've owned several 50's Teles and Esquires with moderate flame in them and still own a !967 Custom Esquire [rosewood board] that is HIGHLY flamed from one end to the other. It's also one of the most solid and stiff necks I have.....it hasn't moved in the 30 years I've owned it! [ Except when I've adjusted the truss rod]. I've also had Teles with two different types of wood in the body but that's a different topic!
Brian.

Telemarkman · January 25th, 2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwenz

it hasn't moved in the 30 years I've owned it! [ Except when I've adjusted the truss rod].

If it hasn't moved, why did you have to adjust the truss rod

?

Scotland · January 25th, 2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

If it hasn't moved, why did you have to adjust the truss rod

?

Exactly.

tonewoods · January 25th, 2008, 11:24 AM

"Did Fender send out many guitars in the 1950's with highly flamed necks?"

Leo built necks from run-of-the-mill 4/4 lumber back in the day, and back in the day fiddleback maple was not pulled as something "special" and sold for premium prices as is the case today...

So it occurs in Blackguards in roughly the same percentage as it occurs in nature, which is not all that often....

In the Blackguard book, there's a Tele with a fabulously flamed neck, and it is just cooler than hell....
There are also a few others in the book with moderate amounts of figuring.....

Mark Davis · January 25th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Here is a 56 Tele with a real flamy neck. This has to be rare.

DavidE · January 25th, 2008, 11:53 AM

Fender most likely purchased wood in larger sizes than four quarter. Being only 1" thick, four quarter wouldn't actually be thick enough for a neck after planing and trueing. But who really knows, and I'm sure they bought maple in random sizes with only bare minimums places on thickness, width, and length. Otherwise they probably didn't much care what size it showed up as. Most of the 50s and 60s necks were either completely flat sawn or about 45 degrees off quarter. Very few approached quarter sawn status because that wood was more expensive. But again, random quarter sawn pieces did find their way in the door.

As for flame in the wood, you cannot look at a tree or even a rough sawn board and predict it. So surely the random piece arrived at Fender's doorstep and was used. There are a number of well known flamey neck blackguards floating around and Nacho had a nice '54 seen in the book until very recently. I don't know about the wood being used as a "custom" detail or not, that would have depended on the customer involved, but Bill Carson once said they didn't like to use it on the guitars because if people started seeing it in the stores right next to a "regular" necks then no one would have wanted the ones without flame and they could never meet demand for just the pretty ones!

Lastly, there is no concrete scientific evidence that flame or birdseye maple is less stable. I'm speaking of just maple here, not every other kind of wood that shows flame as well. There are lots of rumors on the subject but look it up or talk to a botanist and you will see there's nothing to really support it.

cheers,
david

BroadMaster · January 25th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeleSlim

clear grain is what was desirable for a neck as fine and straight as possible. I see discussion about why are so many Squire necks flamed. The less stable ones go onto the lower end production.
I have never had a bad twisted, bent or warped neck and have never re adjusted a neck after my first few days of tweekin.
<edit for brevity>
TeleASlim

I agree TeleSlim, especially about flamed squire necks.

I still prefer a very straight grain, quartersawn neck. The flames look nice on the ones I've seen and owned. I honestly never heard a difference in either. I just know physics wise, I believe, in heel to headstock tip, straight QS grain is the most stable, in regards to a one piece maple. I personally don't mind a trussrod-less neck if it is at least 1" thick at the nut at 12th fret. It is advantageous to cut the neck to spec with the pocket, or vice-versa, if rolling your own or ordering parts from a manufacturer/ indie builder.

A nice simple tinted neck finish with aforementioned specs, a lighter weight body (even hollow / no *f* hole), Nocasters and a 4 way........ one's choice of colors, quality hardware........ a good set up....... what more do you N_E_E_D?????????

oh yeah, a medium powered(35- 45 watt r.m.s. rated) preferably hand wired, 2- 10" speakered amp. Might as well wish for wheels and a popup handle built in to the cabinet, too, mrgreen:
and ummmm plug it in, 'n Let 'er rip, tater chip!
JMV/ OMMV

Bill · January 25th, 2008, 12:11 PM

Brian, don't go messing up a perfectly good discussion with actual, first-hand experience. You're throwing us off!

Telemarkman · January 25th, 2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jz63

Did Fender send out many guitars in the 1950's with highly flamed necks?

The answer to the original question still is: not really.

The reason for this may be subject to discussions though.....or so it seems

.

jz63 · January 25th, 2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Davis

Here is a 56 Tele with a real flamy neck. This has to be rare.

Holy snot that's flamed! I'd love to know the story on that guitar.

bglaze · January 25th, 2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jz63

Holy snot that's flamed! I'd love to know the story on that guitar.

Yeah no kidding, it's almost TOO flamy. My brain gets confused just looking at it.

brianwenz · January 25th, 2008, 02:51 PM

Hello Hello--
Telemarkman and Scotland-- Different string guages through the years and slight adjustments after refrets.

Hi Bill! --- Yeah, wouldn't wanna screw up anything with my own experience, would I??

The flamed necks that I've owned and seen are just as good / bad/ stable / unstable as any other Fender neck. I'm glad that there aren't alot of them around..... too much flame gets to be a bore after awhile.
Brian.

Telemarkman · January 25th, 2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwenz

Telemarkman and Scotland-- Different string guages through the years and slight adjustments after refrets.

I'm just a big teaser

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwenz

I'm glad that there aren't alot of them around..... too much flame gets to be a bore after awhile.

I agree!

boris bubbanov · January 25th, 2008, 05:28 PM

More power to the guys who like a lot of flame.

I prefer enough flame and/or birdseye to keep the eye entertained.

Bubbanov

gtrman911 · January 25th, 2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

There's no reason to sound so shocked. The 50's wasn't the stone age

. The first "custom made" Telecaster to my knowledge was Jimi Bryant's early 50's whiteguard. (Call it "customized" if you like).

Leo always worked in close collaboration with guitar players, and you can bet he made some special orders for more than one of them.

Notice I put "custom" in inverted commas. Leo felt that flame necks was too fancy for a standard workingman's guitar, and should really be avoided. This is a well known fact, confirmed by people who worked with him.

I read Scotland's post to say the same thing.

ok........

just seems weird that the electric guitar was only around for a few years, yet "everybody" knew about the flame maple.

does anyone know if pre-electric guitars had, or charged a premium for, flamed maple necks??

just curious is all.

January 25th, 2008, 04:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
jz63 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London U.K. Age: 38 Posts: 479	Flamey necks and old Teles I was looking at some Custom Shop and AV52's the other day and I noticed that quite a few had really flamey maple necks. Did Fender send out many guitars in the 1950's with highly flamed necks?

January 25th, 2008, 06:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,371 3 Photos	Leo was very much against elitism and therefore did not produce a flame neck unless it was part of the whole block used. Custom shop uses it extensively. I always think that a real flamed or birdseye neck looks just so wrong on a Nocaster, 57 Strat etc. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

January 25th, 2008, 06:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
J-man Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Wales/Scarborough Age: 19 Posts: 6,082 9 Photos	I've seen a few older Teles on eBay with flamed necks, never flamed to the degree that you see on modern guitars marketed as having flamed necks, but it does seem more commonplace on older ones than on newer Teles. That's my extremely non-professional observation. __________________ Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. - Unknown When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson

January 25th, 2008, 10:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
TeleSlim TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: dallas tx. Age: 61 Posts: 47	Clear grain is what was desirable for a neck as fine and straight as possible. I see discussion about why are so many Squire necks flamed. The less stable ones go onto the lower end production. I have never had a bad twisted, bent or warped neck and have never re adjusted a neck after my first few days of tweekin. sorry about the tangent. TeleASlim

January 25th, 2008, 11:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
tonewoods Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Orcas Island, Washington Age: 57 Posts: 581 18 Photos	"Did Fender send out many guitars in the 1950's with highly flamed necks?" Leo built necks from run-of-the-mill 4/4 lumber back in the day, and back in the day fiddleback maple was not pulled as something "special" and sold for premium prices as is the case today... So it occurs in Blackguards in roughly the same percentage as it occurs in nature, which is not all that often.... In the Blackguard book, there's a Tele with a fabulously flamed neck, and it is just cooler than hell.... There are also a few others in the book with moderate amounts of figuring..... __________________ Bruce "Mangler of Bluegrass" "Mandolin Graffiti"

January 25th, 2008, 05:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Telemarkman Friend of Leo's Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Age: 61 Posts: 4,063	Very few actually. Leo didn't like the thought of a standard guitar having a "custom" feature like that. But as always there were exceptions. My 2004 '52RI has a very subtle flame pattern on the neck - absolutely beautiful .

January 25th, 2008, 07:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
ehawley Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Keyport, New Jersey Age: 55 Posts: 938 48 Photos	I think that I read somewhere that flamed and birdseye necks where thought to be unstable and where stayed away from in the 50s and 60s. Hmmm...

January 25th, 2008, 10:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
brianwenz Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 325	Hello Hello-- I've owned several 50's Teles and Esquires with moderate flame in them and still own a !967 Custom Esquire [rosewood board] that is HIGHLY flamed from one end to the other. It's also one of the most solid and stiff necks I have.....it hasn't moved in the 30 years I've owned it! [ Except when I've adjusted the truss rod]. I've also had Teles with two different types of wood in the body but that's a different topic! Brian.

January 25th, 2008, 11:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mark Davis Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bakersfield Ca. Age: 57 Posts: 12,188	Here is a 56 Tele with a real flamy neck. This has to be rare. __________________ I'm so blind my seeing eye dog needs glasses.

January 25th, 2008, 11:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
DavidE Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 150	Fender most likely purchased wood in larger sizes than four quarter. Being only 1" thick, four quarter wouldn't actually be thick enough for a neck after planing and trueing. But who really knows, and I'm sure they bought maple in random sizes with only bare minimums places on thickness, width, and length. Otherwise they probably didn't much care what size it showed up as. Most of the 50s and 60s necks were either completely flat sawn or about 45 degrees off quarter. Very few approached quarter sawn status because that wood was more expensive. But again, random quarter sawn pieces did find their way in the door. As for flame in the wood, you cannot look at a tree or even a rough sawn board and predict it. So surely the random piece arrived at Fender's doorstep and was used. There are a number of well known flamey neck blackguards floating around and Nacho had a nice '54 seen in the book until very recently. I don't know about the wood being used as a "custom" detail or not, that would have depended on the customer involved, but Bill Carson once said they didn't like to use it on the guitars because if people started seeing it in the stores right next to a "regular" necks then no one would have wanted the ones without flame and they could never meet demand for just the pretty ones! Lastly, there is no concrete scientific evidence that flame or birdseye maple is less stable. I'm speaking of just maple here, not every other kind of wood that shows flame as well. There are lots of rumors on the subject but look it up or talk to a botanist and you will see there's nothing to really support it. cheers, david

January 25th, 2008, 12:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bill Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 2,501 56 Photos	Brian, don't go messing up a perfectly good discussion with actual, first-hand experience. You're throwing us off! __________________ B i l l B a e c k A journal of our year in London

January 25th, 2008, 02:51 PM	#21 (permalink)
brianwenz Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 325	Hello Hello-- Telemarkman and Scotland-- Different string guages through the years and slight adjustments after refrets. Hi Bill! --- Yeah, wouldn't wanna screw up anything with my own experience, would I?? The flamed necks that I've owned and seen are just as good / bad/ stable / unstable as any other Fender neck. I'm glad that there aren't alot of them around..... too much flame gets to be a bore after awhile. Brian.

January 25th, 2008, 05:28 PM	#23 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 6,981	More power to the guys who like a lot of flame. I prefer enough flame and/or birdseye to keep the eye entertained. Bubbanov