Building a guitar. . . . Hummmm...

[Voodoo Child]

Thanks for sharing your build with us Ron. You do fine work.

This forum is great!

[RichardWitt]

Thank you Ron!

Your skills and knowledge are invaluable to this forum!
I'm trying to do builds, finding the time is the hardest thing of all (stupid work! It keeps getting in the way!). I'll get there though!

It's pretty clear that you and a handful of others here have influenced many people on the forum to build their own already, to which you should be very proud. But this build should kick a few people in the butt and get them moving!

Thanks again!

[bglaze]

This thread has been like a beautiful poem that has finally come to it's grand climax! And what an end indeed! You, Ron, have outdone yourself. All of your guitars are truly immaculate, but this is a masterpiece! And the fact that you took the time to share with us the building process is enormous! Thank you!

[ehawley]

OUTSTANDING!!

[mowcheeba]

Absolutely amazing!

[Arlo]

Ron, what an amazing thread and this guitar is truly one of a kind brother.

I am glad to know you and to have you helping me with some of my builds.

One more thing your nephew! Sweet mother of pearl that guy can play!!

I encourage any of you who have not checked out his my space page to do so it IS worth a listen.

Was the Strat he is using in the Patty Davis songs one of yours? Gawd aw-mighty what a tone!!

You never cease to amaze me Ron.

OK, I gotta get my ass in gear I have a plane to catch to LA today.

[Ronkirn]

Sweet mother of pearl that guy can play

Yeah boy…. It’s quite a story…..

Jon’s Father, my brother ‘n law, was a Captain in the St Augustine Fire Dept, a Paramedic. One Afternoon while water skiing he had an accident, 3 days later he passed on.

Jon was an early Teen then and just getting into the guitar, his Father had been teaching him, so Jon came to me. He wanted to re-finish a Flying V if I recall, or some Shredder’s ax, I helped, and that really got him fired up, I few years later he was gigging in a local dive and the head of the music department of Florida State University saw ‘im, gave him a Scholarship right there.

By this time it was pretty certain he had one hellova Muse, he could play Guitar, Trumpet, Drums, and about anything else that produced a note. He didn’t know it, but he inherited that from his Great Grandfather, who could play a few things that didn’t make a note. Family rumor is, he invented the Auto Harp.

In College he pursued a Music Major, gravitated to Classical Guitar, and just took off like a José Ramírez was part of his DNA. He went on to School in Atlanta, then on to the University of Texas, where he is completing his Doctorate now.

I have always been a classical guitar fan, with the obvious, Segovia being my fav, and Julian Bream being my favorite contemporary artist, Jon, is the equal of either, he is stunning to watch. It doesn’t matter what he is playing.

Yep, that is indeed one of my Strats he’s playing. It too has had a rather interesting life. Made in 1995, I sold it to his uncle, also a hellova guitarist… but he was in school to become a Medical Technician, after spending several years as a Paramedic too, so being in school he was a poor student like most, so he sold the guitar to Jon, who needed a guitar, because he too was a poor student, and had sold most of his guitars to eat.

So that guitar bounced back and forth between Jon and his Uncle Jay about a half a dozen times, before they got to a point they didn’t have to sell it back and forth. It wound up in Jay’s hands, and Jon has been lobbying Jay to sell it to him for about 5 years now. To no avail.

So I just presented Jon with a new one, he has just hauled it back to Austin, where the 6 pound Strat is getting a lotta buzz among the quite elite community of guitarists Jon hangs with.

He says for some reason, seasoned Les Paul players, really smile large and sigh with relief, when they strap that rascal on… hhehehe.

Ron Kirn

[Scott McCray]

the sheer talent here is amazing! Thank you for sharing this build with us! (shuffles off to see what other gems he can find on this forum - whilst shaking head and mumbling).

Thanks again - simply gorgeous work.

[Easydog]

And building one you yourself will leave to your child cannot be described… I have given one to all 3 of my Grandchildren, and will do a 4th in a few years. None of them are guitarists, but somewhere among my Great grandchildren, one will arise. That alone makes it worth it.

This actually brought tears to my eyes.

Thank you Ron. What a way to commemorate a birth.
-Easy

[Dep]

Ron, is your nephew's mother's name Barbara?

I used to work with her at the Sheriff's Office in St Johns. I haven't seen her in a while.

Small world.

Dep

[Ronkirn]

Nope...Sandy, she was married to Jem Dotson.

Ron Kirn

[HiggyDude]

Ron,

Great build and thread. What a great gift to a grandchild - a true family heirloom.

I do have a question - I have paired up your Tele templates to an AllParts body, a Warmoth finished Tele body and my Fender Am Std Tele - your templates are slightly smaller all around (I understand that on my Fender and Warmoth there is finish buildup etc. but the AllParts body is unfinished ash) - maybe 1/8" or more. Is this due to different years being differnt sizes? What year or timeframe are your templates based on?

Anyone else notice this?

[Dep]

Got her mixed up with someone else at the office.

I did know Jem though. Working st SJSO, you meet up with all the fire rescue people eventually.

Dep

[Ronkirn]

I have paired up your Tele templates to an AllParts body

Those templates were made back in the early 80’s from a ’54 I was refinishing. There are some who have challenged that. But since it was about 15 years prior to the proliferation of the internet, there was no reason for me to photograph it to validate it.

’54 was when Fender’s sales were really taking off, and demands were out-pacing production, thus Fender began out-sourcing some of the basic production. Thus it’s entirely possible the one I used was from an outside source. Also in 1982, no body gave much of a hoot about the Tele, except for a few very astute C&W players. You could pickup a 1950’s Tele in a pawn shop for 50 bux. I don’t know how much sanding, refinishing, rat chewing, whatever, the original had gone through either, ‘cause like I said, no body gave a rat’s azz…BUT…

It really doesn’t matter because the chief criteria is does it produce a body that is usable, one that accepts standard Fender parts, to that one I answer UmmHummm, yessiree Bob… jest take a look at my site, or Brock’s guitar above…. Not too shabby huh?

Now, here’s what’s looming on the horizon. I had in my chubby little fingers what is rumored to be a 1950 Broadcaster body to make a new set of templates. I compared it to the info in Nacho’s book and it’s lookin’ darn good. The owner let me head up to his place and make templates, but he wouldn’t let it out of his sight. It’s in rank shape, and is going to cost me a complete refinish and rebuild to get my hands on it again with the permission to clean out the neck pocket to see what lurks under several coats of paint, if he accepts the offer. This one will be photographed for those naysayers lurking, waiting, to pounce. I’m not calling it anything yet, not till I’m pretty sure. But again, all the parts fit in the right places and that’s what really matters.

Ron Kirn

[bglaze]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

jest take a look at my site, or Brock’s guitar above…. Not too shabby huh?

After playing this guitar, I don't care if Ron drew a picture of a Tele using sidewalk chalk and made his templates from that, this thing is perfect in every way. I have every reason to believe his templates are the best you can buy. (I just got my guitar yesterday. A pics and review post is coming as soon as I can pull myself away from this guitar! Which could be a while...)

[Little Nip]

Ron,
That is spectacular work. The details are outstanding.
I have a question. If you always shim teles, why rout a neck pocket parallel to the face and shim, why not taper the pocket? Tapered template, shimmed template?

[Ronkirn]

why not taper the pocket?

Because guitarists are always fiddling with their instruments, and if they wanted to reduce the relief over the pickguard, it would require a shim at the exposed end of the neck pocket, looking rather tacky..

Ron Kirn

[Taipan]

I have paired up your Tele templates to an AllParts body, a Warmoth finished Tele body and my Fender Am Std Tele -Anyone else notice this?

Yes, I am sure that we have all noticed this as well when the early - pre CNC days Fender bodies were hand made they were all slightly different. I am also sure that we have all see that all the custom bodies very from Manufacture to Manufacture.

What I am really sure of is that Ron's templates are the best overall tele body shape and size that I have come across for me. ( I don't know the man , I just use his product) I don't care where he got the original design from as that is not important to me. I have even gone so far as when I have ordered bodies from some place else - ( either because the price was right or I was just to busy to cut my own), I have reshaped their outside profile using Ron's template "where ever the meat was hanging out"

If I every come across a Tele body that really wows me more than the ones that I have cut using Ron's templates I will use that one to make a set of templates from.

[HiggyDude]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Those templates were made back in the early 80’s from a ’54 I was refinishing. There are some who have challenged that. But since it was about 15 years prior to the proliferation of the internet, there was no reason for me to photograph it to validate it.

It really doesn’t matter because the chief criteria is does it produce a body that is usable, one that accepts standard Fender parts, to that one I answer UmmHummm, yessiree Bob… jest take a look at my site, or Brock’s guitar above…. Not too shabby huh?

Ron Kirn

Ron,

Thanks for the info. You're right -the templates work great - just wanted to educate myself about the discrepancies.

Taipan - I agree!

[Ronkirn]

Yes, I am sure that we have all noticed this. . .

Indeed….. as have I…..

Hot flash… those that think the last Tele to roll off the assembly line Friday has the same exact body shape as the first Esquire cranked out in 1950 . . . heheh… HAHAHA. .. . BUWAAAYAYAYAAA. . .. Sorry…. And there have been bunches of variations over the years, some slight, some not so. . .

I restate, back when I made the originals of my templates. NO one gave much of a hoot about the long check list of details that are so diligently checked and re-checked today when looking for a real vintage guitar.

A guitar that would easily bring 30,000 bux today could be had for 50 bux in any one of a number of pawn shops back then. This might come as a surprise, but people rarely spend time and money verifying that a 50 dollar guitar is all original. Today it’s a different story. When you’re plopping down 30 large on a collector’s item, you wanna be certain it didn’t originate in some obscure shop in Kowloon, thus, people are now hyper detail oriented.

All I really recall about the original guitar I made the templates from was it was a rank old piece that had been refinished several times, and the date on the neck was from ’54.

Now, last night I sat down with Nacho’s book and did a bit of reading and comparing…. While the neck was indeed from a ’54…I remember that vividly, I now don’t think the body was. I’d love to go back 25 years and check again, but that ain’t gonna happen, so all I have are memories and Nacho’s book.

Why don’t I think the body came from ’54? Well first, while it was indeed a Fender body, in the early ‘80’s I don’t know of anyone that was making replacement bodies for guitars that could be had for 50 bux from the used market. So that rules out Warmoth, USACG and a handful of others that didn’t exist then.

As I go through Nacho’s book, I see there is only one time frame where a body similar to the templates I made existed. No notch, very slight or no neck pocket lip, virtually no flat spot, although I DID remove that from the templates to facilitate drilling the 7/8th inch hole, and the electronics rout had round ends on both ends. . . see page 40 in the Blackguard book. And, of course the neck pocket lip could have been removed by whatever good intentioned person doing one of the many refinishes.

I see there is virtually no flat spot on the body in the book and the return to the bass side of the neck pocket is skewed slightly as it is on my templates, as SOMEONE so kindly and erroneously pointed out as being a flaw in my templates as he flamed them in virtually every forum in which he could find bandwidth. SO if I could only remember if there was the name Eddie in the pickup route . . .hehehe. Thus the body may have an even earlier origin than the ’54. It may be one of the earliest of Esquires, which would be a truly remarkable find today, not so remarkable 25 years ago. But don’t argue the point, there’s no way to verify one way or the other.

Now those gasping for air… remember, I’m recalling this based on the mind-set of the early 80’s, when for the most part, Teles, Esquires, et. al. were NOT the universally highly regarded guitars they are today. This was the early age of Shredding. Also the body I used to make templates had been refinished several times, you know how that goes, and Lord knows what was removed while it was being sanded, if anything. It’s entirely possible the body from one guitar was put with the neck from another, remember its 1982 here…

Since this is a recurring theme, perhaps common sense will put it to rest. Naaaah. . I know better, but none-the-less, consider . . . Anyone have any idea how many prime candidates for templates come through the door over time in this business? How many Kids that have no idea what they have, but just want their Grandpa’s guitar fixed so they can learn Stairway. I can tell ya . . . bunches.

Over the recent years I have made templates from the original guitars of a ‘55 Tele Bass, 56 Precision bass, a ’62 Jazz Bass, ‘61 Jazz Master, ’54 (subject of discussion) Tele, ’62 Strat, ‘91’ CS Strat (way different from the ’62) and there are bunches others I have passed on. And probably others I did make and have just forgotten that are stashed out back somewhere. Note, none are made from no stinking blue prints, these were all the real deal and I have photos of the process, or most of ‘em. So when some detail oriented woodworker emails flaming me for something that is present, or not present… well yeah… you DID want ‘em like the originals didn’t ya?

The only time I make a change is when something is a major hang-up for the amateur, for instance, the ’62 Strat clearances in some of the electronics routs allow virtually NO wiggle room, so I corrected that, and the ferrules routs/string holes on the Tele are now straight. These are both features that varied over the years, so there is NO universal standard.

Now here’s where common sense comes in, why would I make templates of a Tele using any other method/body than I did with all the rest….? I could have used any one of all the Vintage Reissues that walk in. The only reason I don’t have photos of making the originals is it was 1982 (as I recall) and there just wasn’t any dawggone reason to do so. There was no Internet, no TDPRI, and no dorks trying to shoot down every accomplishment anyone achieves. (Not you guys, there are some evil forums out there; I just don’t go there anymore.)

But. .. just to make the naysayers happy, I have zeroed in on what is believed to be a 1950/’51 Broadcaster or Nocaster body, an ugly body. . . I went to the guys place and made templates from it, and am negotiating with the guy now to let me scrape paint out of the neck pocket, to see if it’s what we think… that’s gonna cost me a whole guitar.

For those that want dead on accuracy, just remember this little rant the next time you’re taping a picture of a guitar to a piece of MDF….there IS a better way.

And for those that for some reason wonder if all the parts fit and the guitar plays, there’s a few within the TDPRI that can so attest. Just ask.

Sorry, it’s just another nasty, cold, rainy day and I don’t wanna be out there seeing how painful my knees can get on a day like this. I’d rather be in here typing forgetting that there is a splinter right smack dab in the middle of my finger. OUCH!!


Ron Kirn

[Wild Rice Chris]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Sorry, it’s just another nasty, cold, rainy day and I don’t wanna be out there seeing how painful my knees can get on a day like this.

I'll trade you my -17°F for your cold and rainy. ;)

[Ronkirn]

kinda hard to get lacquer to dry on a -17 degree day....

rk