Do the pros Fret Out???

[furrfurrfurr]

Or do they have a way to prevent it?

Do they just deal with it?

Do they avoid 7.25 radius necks?

What's their solution/remedy/coping mechanism?

[JerryPro]

Brad Paisley's main old 69 Paisley has a 7.5 radius. However, I don't see him do extreme bends very often, usually only a whole step and not usually above the 15th fret.

[Paul G.]

A pro setup, with frets levelled and crowned, correct relief set goes a long way. Most pros who use curved boards also set the high E, and to a lesser extent the B to a flatter radius (higher).

You really can't get much below 1/16" at the 12th fret.

P.

[dibber124]

They fret out but do not "fret" about it.

[BroadMaster]

Originally Posted by furrfurrfurr

Or do they have a way to prevent it?

What's their solution/remedy/coping mechanism?

Proper setup by a skilled tech will remedy this. If a good tech can't fix the problem, it gets sold. Usually on sleaze-bay to an unsuspecting bargain hunter. This is their face after the ups guy leaves and they play it:

[GUITARmole]

If your frets were tall to start with and you have a fret level or two done you can end up with a radius that's flatter than 7.5 anyway...especially on the higher frets where the flatter radius makes more of a difference and where they wear slower (assuming you're not Yngwie). It all depends on the Tech that did the leveling and setup.

[FredDairy]

Most professionals have balls and usually have their action set fairly high. I find when I lay off from playing with my band and do a lot of playing on my own I'm constantly lowering my action and making my guitar more playable. This sounds fine in my basement, but when I get to a live situation my guitar frets out and sounds like crap. I think of someone like Mike Bloomfield who was playing a lot in the 60s touring, etc, probably kept his guitar in unhealthy weather situations and I'm willing to be the action on his telecaster was not tended to very often.

[Telemarkman]

One of the really "Big Benders" of all time, Roy Buchanan, played a 7.25" radius board at least throughout the 70s, and I,ve never heard him fret out. But then he preferred a rather high action.

[Grin'n'pick]

Originally Posted by GUITARmole

If your frets were tall to start with and you have a fret level or two done you can end up with a radius that's flatter than 7.5 anyway...especially on the higher frets where the flatter radius makes more of a difference and where they wear slower (assuming you're not Yngwie). It all depends on the Tech that did the leveling and setup.

According to Dan Erlewine's book Eric Johnson plays a vintage radius neck but has the frets levelled to a much flatter radius, or at least he did before the EJ strat came along with a 12".

Being used to vintage shaped necks I can only feel that were I to get exactly the neck I wanted compound radius would have to be the way to go.

I'm sure the pros fret out sometimes, they just let that take go on the record.

[olewichita]

i can only speak for mysedlf and i do make my living playing guitar so i'll weigh in... i always play 7.25 radius with very high action... i never fret out... when it's time to replace frets i use a size slightly bigger than standard vintage... not because i don't like vintage size, with my action there's really no difference but because they last a bit longer... i pretty much play the same guitar at every occasion so it get's a lot of wear time... tj

[sean79]

What does it mean to "fret out" anyway? And why is it more of a problem on smaller radius necks? And why is olewichita's name olewichita?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by sean79

What does it mean to "fret out" anyway? And why is it more of a problem on smaller radius necks? And why is olewichita's name olewichita?

Fret out is the situation when a fret above the fret being fretted interferes with the fretted note...and it is something to fret about. Smaller radius necks necessitate higher action IF the palyer is going to bend. This happens because when a string is bent, the line of the string can come into contact with the arc of a fret on up the fretboard. AS noted earlier in the thread, with a vintage 7.25" radius, the high E string will need a minimum of 4/64" at the 12th fret in order to achieve a bend of 1 step without 'fretting out'. This is only if the line of the neck is proper...that is, the upper fretboard doesn't 'kick up'. A good line of neck will drop away slightly above the 12th fret. The necessary action for the high E dictates the action for the rest of the strings, imo. That is, with a high E at 4/64", the low E will need to be at 5.5/64" or 6/64" with the rest of the strings set in the proper radius if one wants the strings to react to pick attack uniformly.
Note that fret out can occur when not bending, too. This results from high/low fret situations and bad line of neck problems.
olewichita is getting old....hence the monniker...

[tele12]

Originally Posted by Grin'n'pick

According to Dan Erlewine's book Eric Johnson plays a vintage radius neck but has the frets levelled to a much flatter radius, or at least he did before the EJ strat came along with a 12".

I have that book also, Dan Erlewine measures and analyzes a lot of pro's guitars. Almost all of them have a flatter radius than 7 1/4". The conclusion I drew from the book was if the guitar is old its been refretted so many times the radius near the bridge end winds up being 10" to 12". So to answer the original question it would seem the pros avoid 7 1/4" radius necks.

[olewichita]

ah, at last the truth shall be revealed... i was nicknamed wichita by austin drummer lisa pankratz when we both toured with rock and roll legend ronnie dawson... wichita is the shy and outta tune guitar player on the lester roadhog moran and his caddilac cowboys albums... they were the "hillbilly comedy" alter ego of the statler bros. and probably the greatest thing the statlers ever did... it's really very, very funny... i guess i was either shy or outta tune;) in those days i could go on for days without speaking and all wichita ever said was; yup... lester would always introduce him as ole wichita... tj

[olewichita]

i'm getting old too... 34 years and counting... i will pick up my geezers chip shortly;) tj

[Wally]

So, wichita, your tag is not descriptive.
Regarding radiusing frets vs. fretboards, one thing to keep in mind that if one radiuses the frets, the middle of the fret will be closer to the board than the outside. some players might find this disconcerting...sensitive types, you know. I consider defretting, re-radiusing the board and refertting to be the better option. I also have seen vintage Fenders with no dots left due to this practice. work on enough of them and you will see it all. I have seen Fender necks that had line-of-neck problems with the board worked to near nothing in areas...low fret and/or high fret areas. 'Kick up' necks often have no board in the tongue area if they have ever been worked for the problem. When the fret tangs are into the maple, it was past time for a new board when the last person worked refretted.

[Southpaw433]

One mans gold is another mans poison -
You can pretty much correct fret-out to be compatable with your playing style by raising or lowering the saddles, adjusting the neck relief, leveling frets, installing taller frets, using a shim under the neck, or any combination of the above.

[Geo]

Pros that use vintage radius don't fret out.
Doubt string action or string height is really a factor.
Might be but might not be.
They just know how to do it second nature because
they never considered it an ISSUE.
You learn or teach yourself how to make it work and
often second nature. They don't ponder over it.
They just do it and whatever technique is necessary
be it additional string pressure or changing hand/fingers/
arm positioning or whatever....They just do it and
adapt. Often it is done without or Second Nature.

I never even considered it at all and granted I am not
what I consider a pro but prior to websites like this
never was a factor or a problem.

One should not ever get caught up in
MIND SETS in the music business.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Southpaw433

One mans gold is another mans poison -
You can pretty much correct fret-out to be compatable with your playing style by raising or lowering the saddles, adjusting the neck relief, leveling frets, installing taller frets, using a shim under the neck, or any combination of the above.

All of the above are part of a correct set-up except taller frets. Taller frets will not correct fret out....only a proper set-up.

Geo wrote: "Pros that use vintage radius don't fret out.
Doubt string action or string height is really a factor.
Might be but might not be.
They just know how to do it second nature because
they never considered it an ISSUE.
You learn or teach yourself how to make it work and
often second nature. They don't ponder over it.
They just do it and whatever technique is necessary
be it additional string pressure or changing hand/fingers/
arm positioning or whatever....They just do it and
adapt. Often it is done without or Second Nature"

There is nothing in a player's technique that will correct neck problems and/or a bad set-up. Pros con't fret out simply because the action is properly set for that neck and that player's style. Ex: Most players are satisfied with the ability to bend the hgh E one step...2 frets. Someone like Buddy Guy will want a set-up that allows him to take that high E almost to the other side of the neck without fretting out....2 1/2"-3 steps. This demand would require a much higher action...given the same radius...whatever that radius might be.

[kp8]

if you read that Dan Erlewine book you see lots of those players are playing guitars that have been refretted really aren't 7.25 anymore.