Question for Finishers/ReFinishers (pics included)

[keto]

This is a question pertaining to my build in the thread 'First Build(s)'. I'm posting its own topic as hopefully I will get more replies, educating both me and other builders.

The pics below aren't great, so I will have to describe what may or may not be a problem. The paint I bought is supposed to be a gloss paint. Side note - rattle can cap to indicate colour is beside the main body top photo. Anyways, I'm about 6-7 coats on and relatively happy with the result - there are 3 *tiny* spit marks behind the bridge, as I intend to relic this anyways I'll just put dings there.

Now, the actual question: The paint isn't glossy smooth, it's almost like 400 grit sandpaper, rough and crystalline in its finish. Will the lacquer fill it up and give an acceptable appearance or will the (again, quite fine) crystalline surface show thru the gloss of the lacquer? Should I

a) leave it and go to lacquer, as the lacquer will fill it smooth and shouldn't show the sandpaper-like paint finish
b) keep adding paint until it smooths out, possibly obscuring the grain
c) scrap it and find better paint

**EDITED** to note that there is grain filler (2 applications) and vinyl based sanding sealer (2 coats) underneath the paint.

Your feedback is appreciated. Future related posts will be back in the original thread.

[giraffecaster]

by spit marks do you mean an extra drip of paint?

if that's the case sand it out lightly. do another light coat of color. then just sprat the clear. lots of coats to build up thickness. then finish wet sand moving up to really fine grit. polish out.

lots of good info at reranch

[magicguitar]

Don't worry about it. I have found that it makes no diff if you use gloss or satin in either color or clearcoat. You are going to be wet sanding before you buff and shine so the finish will look very dull regardless of whether you used high gloss or satin or whatever. After you have wet sanded to a uniform smoothness... using various grades of paper from 800 to 2000 grit, then you can start to buff and ploish and when you're finished it should have a finish that looks at least a foot deep.

[Jack Wells]

You only need to spray enough colored paint to get a uniform color. Once you get a uniform color you can start spraying clear lacquer. You should consider Deft Clear Gloss. You could go broke buying enough ReRanch clear lacquer for all those guitars. You should spray at least two cans of clear on each guitar. I used satin paint for color .......... sprayed, sanded and polished the clear coat and ended up with a nice glossy finish.

[0le FUZZY]

I intend to relic this anyways I'll just put dings there

...With a hummer route inna lead and noe neck P/U







...Nice color and werk BTW.








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[keto]

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

...With a hummer route inna lead and noe neck P/U (?)


...Nice color and werk BTW.
[B]

Thank you

and with regard to the first, I'm not ever going to try and fool someone for real This is my first build, and it's strictly for me, both as a player and as a learning experience. For those who may not have seen my other thread, I am building 4 (at least to start), one for me and one for each of my 3 kids. After that, who knows

Thanks a ton for the replies, folks. I will continue on then, forward HARCH!

[SteveY]

Originally Posted by jwells393

You only need to spray enough colored paint to get a uniform color. Once you get a uniform color you can start spraying clear lacquer. You should consider Deft Clear Gloss...

+1 on the Deft.

[reddogbass]

The "sandpaper" type finish you describe is either dust in the finish, or most likely sprayed very dry.

Personally I like a wet color coat, and then sand before the application of the clear. Then wet clear coats, with as few as possible to obtain the desired finish. The reasoning is that- the thinner the finish, the more durable, and more resistance to chipping.

I do all the "bodywork" in the primer stage, and don't try to use the color and clear coats for filling.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by reddogbass

The "sandpaper" type finish you describe is either dust in the finish, or most likely sprayed very dry.

Personally I like a wet color coat, and then sand before the application of the clear. Then wet clear coats, with as few as possible to obtain the desired finish. The reasoning is that- the thinner the finish, the more durable, and more resistance to chipping.

I do all the "bodywork" in the primer stage, and don't try to use the color and clear coats for filling.

Having known the original Painter for PRS (when he was small)...Reddogbass knows of what he speaks...also having once had a Harley Shop, that's how our Painter always approached it....

[keto]

OK so to Redd, I can definitely say that it's because it was sprayed very dry and thin, I did NOT go heavy thick coat, due to my extreme fear of drips and runs based on previous painting experience.

As to the little spray drips (again, 3 tiny ones back of the bridge area), I am NOT going to sand the existing paint, too many horror storys on the reranch and other sites. I'm going with what I've got, I'll just stick a key or a screwdriver into the drip spots later on when I make my relicing attempt.

Deft - I have 4 cans here but....yesterday I bought a gallon of nitrocellulose lacquer (and the guy threw in a little container of amber tint), and I have a compressor and 2 (small and larger) paint guns, I think it's time I learned to use them. I got the lacquer cheap (less than the price of 3 rattle cans of Deft), I think he's blowing out old stock as the Deft type product has more or less eliminated demand for the gallons. I'd prefer to use the nitro, if I can learn to use it and get a decent tint colour, as I hear the Deft is bullet proof and wont yellow or crackle. And I want yellowing and crackling on this particular guitar.

Again I appreciate and thank yews for the info and tips.

[reddogbass]

That's the best thing about lacquer- if you get run, or dirt, or cat hairs, etc. in the finish, you just sand them out. If you cut through the top coats, no big deal. Just give her a couple more coats- block amd buff.

Honest- it won't take much to get the hang of the guns. I don't drag 'em out for small stuff because of the set-up and clean-up time. Then you have to have the materials on hand. If I painted at least one guitar a day, I'd use spray equipment. You can really lay on the paint in quick order.

If you have a touch-up gun it's perfect for painting guitars. And because of the adjustability, it's great for bursts. Then you have the unlimited colors to choose from. One thing about guns though- they need to be clean and "in tune." You need to filter the paint going into the cup. And you need good, clean, dry air.

[Jack Wells]

I'm no expert but here's my theory on spraying without runs, drips or errors.

If you spray your initial coats wet you are almost guaranteed to get a run. I build up a few light coats first. As I get more and more coats on I move in closer with the spray can or gun and spray wetter coats. The earlier coats you've built up will suck the solvent out of the new wet coat and almost instantly thicken up that coat making it less likely to run.

Well ....... that's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.

[Buckocaster51]

Oh boy those look good!

I might be tempted to lightly run some 600 (or higher) grit paper over that color using as little pressure as possible to know down some of the high spots. But it looks to me like you are good to go on the clear.

You shouldn't have any trouble spraying with a gun. I'm with Jack on misting it first...then put the stuff on "wet" moving the gun as fast as you can while still getting a glossy wet finish over everything. When I do this I try real hard to keep the reflection of a light visible on the finish. It makes for some crazy contortions, but it works for me.

Keep im mind...you DO NOT WANT TO SAND THROUGH THAT COLOR! That is bad. Very bad.

[Dick Seacup]

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

...With a hummer route inna lead and noe neck P/U

I have nothing to add re: the OPs question, but wanted to thank Fuzzy for the only laugh I've had today. I just about shot cheap, watery American beer out my nose.



Thanks, I needed that.

[reddogbass]

There is always confusion about application of paint- be it color or clear coat. It's because of individual descriptions, and not necessarily preferences on what works.

First, if a coat goes on dry, and has that grainy texture with no gloss, it's because the solvents have evaporated before application on the subject. The carrier has left the building! The danger in this is that there is no binder to adhere the coat to the subject. Do not skimp on the intial coat! Subsequent coats will not "burn in" if the top of the previous coat is dry- and it will promote adhesion of the first pass to the substrate/subject.

Now- the question comes up- is it a coat or a "pass?" It is not a coat, because a "coat" is a series of passes. It could be two or more.

So when you spray paint you define an area that you can cover and come back over before it can flash completely. This is dependent on what's being painted, and how it's comfortable to break up the areas.

The intial pass should should be light (not cover) but wet. This is accomplished by moving the gun more quickly. Because of the thinness, it will flash quickly. Now the second pass will cover- not only because of the additional paint, but it will be aplied more slowly. Maybe a third pass will be necessary to get the desired effect, without runs, drips, and dry edges. Practice will allow you to make that determination. Now you have applied ONE COAT! Three series of three passes equals three coats.

Contributing to a dry pass is moving too fast, or having the tip too far from the work. Another contribution is paint mixture/ gun adjustment , and conditions, but when using pre-packaged paints, it's less of a deal.

With the pre-pak (aerosol) stuff you have less control, and less to worry about except practice. With a gun applied finsih you have more control, but a couple of adjustments to be familiar with- air pressure, fluid volume- air volume, and fan width (or spray pattern). If you've followed mfr's thinning recommendations, that would be all. While this may seem more complicated, it's really not.

The bottom line is, either method of application requires practice- so you can get enough paint on to cover with the thinnest film thickness.

DO NOT be afraid to lay on the paint! You are far better off to sand out a couple of drips, than trying to get a dry coat to adhere!