Black "Windsor chair" finish Telecaster project

appar111 · November 29th, 2006, 05:53 PM

Well, I received my alder tele body yesterday from Warmoth and it looks great! I originally wanted to do a Tru-Oil finish on the body, but realized that you can see the lines where the pieces were joined. Not a huge deal, but it would only be magnified with something like Tru-Oil.

So I decided to revive a project idea I had this summer-- using milk paint, varnish (i.e. Tru-Oil) and paste wax to give a tele body a black windsor-chair type finish. Kinda like this:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ndsorchair.jpg

I also plan on putting an initial coat of white milk paint on first, followed by some shellac to keep it separated from the coats of black milk paint I'll apply later. That way as it wears & checks, the white finish will show underneath.

Aside from figuring out the steps & allowing the proper time for each one (i.e. raising the grain, sanding it back down, applying a thin coat of shellac, sanding that down, applying the initial coat of white paint, etc.), I think this will be a really neat project.

I tried two coats of black milk paint on a scrap piece of 2x4, let it dry for a few days, sanded down, coated it w/ Tru-Oil then knocked that down w/ sandpaper again and added another coat of the Tru-Oil, and I gotta say, the patina on this finish looks just like an old Windsor chair - somewhat waxy, satiny, but with nice depth, despite only being a super-thin coat of actual paint & Tru-Oil. I mean, it's really very little finish on top of the wood.

If two coats of paint and two coats of Tru-Oil look this nice, I think taking a little more time with it will really make it look like a classy, aged & vintage inspired piece.

It will have a birdseye maple neck, white pickguard, white (or possibly creme & black "zebra") neck humbucker, and a vintage bridge w/ brass saddles.

Comments, thoughts, or suggestions as I venture forth?

Fatmanstratman · November 29th, 2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by appar111

...I decided to revive a project idea I had this summer-- using milk paint, varnish (i.e. Tru-Oil) and paste wax to give a tele body a black windsor-chair type finish. Kinda like this:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ndsorchair.jpg

....I gotta say, the patina on this finish looks just like an old Windsor chair....

Erm... is that Windsor chair a top-loader or a string-thru? .....

BritishBluesBoy · November 29th, 2006, 08:28 PM

What a great idea. Sounds really pretty too... Show us some pics when you're done eh??

Cheers!

BBB.

appar111 · November 29th, 2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritishBluesBoy

What a great idea. Sounds really pretty too... Show us some pics when you're done eh??

Cheers!

BBB.

Will do!

Oh, for Fatmanstratman - it's a string-thru windsor chair-- top loader windsor chairs don't have near as much sustain :)

aunchaki · November 30th, 2006, 09:48 AM

Sounds like it'll be unique! I love the look of yellow or red under black milk paint. Post picks as you go!

Little Nip · November 30th, 2006, 01:20 PM

We recently finished a table with milk paint. First time I'd used it in 15 or more years. I was reminded how hard it is. It eats sandpaper like a locomotive eats coal. We should have made the paint thinner and applied more, even, flat coats. It does look great when its well sanded and oiled though!

chickshannon · November 30th, 2006, 01:43 PM

Can anyone translate " milk paint " into U.K. please !!! ???
Cheers
Chick

Jelly · November 30th, 2006, 02:05 PM

Hey Chick, it's casein paint. Used to really have milk in it.

jhundt · November 30th, 2006, 02:31 PM

can you describe the products and process a little more? I've heard of milk-paint, but I thought that stuff disappeared 100 years ago.

daviddoubleu · November 30th, 2006, 02:31 PM

This sounds like it's going to be one classy looking Tele. I love the whole concept of combining that finish with the white pickguard, zebra/ white hummer and maple neck.

Can't wait to see the pics!

68tele · November 30th, 2006, 03:13 PM

I've sanded/planed some old doors that had been milk-painted @100 years ago...interesting aroma, to say the least.

pottedmeat42 · November 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM

this sounds like a *great* idea...i think this will turn out really nice. I've toyed w/the idea of using milk paints also (but never made it happen). Let us know how it turns out! -jason

appar111 · November 30th, 2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhundt

can you describe the products and process a little more? I've heard of milk-paint, but I thought that stuff disappeared 100 years ago.

check out: www.milkpaint.com I've been using their stuff for this project.

appar111 · November 30th, 2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddoubleu

This sounds like it's going to be one classy looking Tele. I love the whole concept of combining that finish with the white pickguard, zebra/ white hummer and maple neck.

Can't wait to see the pics!

Good to know so many others are interesting in seeing how this one turns out!

Here's what I've done so far:

1. ran a damp cloth over the whole body to raise the grain.

2. after drying completely, I used 320 grit sandpaper on the front & back (one of those 3M foam sanding blocks that reduces dust), and a really funky 220 grit 3M sanding pad that was purple & flexible for the sides & around the lower bout of the body near the neck joint.

3. put on an initial coat of Zinsser Bullseye Shellac (clear) as evenly as possible & let it dry (approx. an hour, but it was dry in about 20 minutes-- I like to be thorough :)).

4. took the same 320 sanding block & 220 grit sanding pad & took the shellac off (kind of a bear, I'll be honest!), leaving only what sunk into the pores (which ain't much on an alder body)

5. mixed up an initial coat of "Snow White" milk paint from milkpaint.com. I also mixed in some of their Extra Bond to make sure the initial coat of paint stuck. Initial coat is very streaky & uneven looking, although it felt pretty uniform

6. waited an hour or so and sanded the paint down using the same block & pad (much more lightly than I did when I took the shellac off, as I didn't want to sand through the paint)

7. applied a second coat of snow white milk paint, this time without the Extra Bond. The second coat really evens things out. Looks very even, but still very thin compared to something like a poly (I think I'm turning into one of those "thin skin" lovers...)

And that's all I've done so far. In my haste to get started, I didn't take any pics of the unfinished body before I started with the shellac'ing & painting. I did take a pic of the body after the 2nd coat of milk paint had dried overnight. I'll upload the pics when I get home.

I decided to leave the control cavity & pickup cavities unpainted for a really authentic and well... old look, I guess. It just looks like a musician's craft project from the late 40's :) I did put a light coat of shellac in these cavities, and will end up putting a thin coat of Tru-Oil on them when I do the final finish coats so that they're sealed from moisture.

Tonight:
Sand down the 2nd coat of milk paint and add a thin coat of shellac to seal it so that when I add the black milk paint over top, it will form distinct paint layers & not bleed into one another. I'll probably knock the shellac down a bit when it dries so that I have a nice, even surface. Plus, the first coat of black milk paint & Extra Bond will adhere better. But I won't be applying the black milk paint 'til this weekend.

Stay tuned!

freshmattyp · December 1st, 2006, 12:33 AM

I really want to see the end result. This sounds like a good finish to attempt.

daviddoubleu · December 1st, 2006, 12:57 AM

Thanks for the update, please keep it coming! These are my favorite threads.

appar111 · December 1st, 2006, 11:58 AM

Still no pics (haven't had the time to hook my digital cam up to my computer & upload pics.

I ended up using the 320 grit sponge sanding block on the back & sides, with the 220 grit around the edges. I'm amazed at how smooth the snow white paint is looking - smooth & satiny. Feels great & very durable, yet still thin.

I'm going to wait another day for the paint to cure even more-- 24 hours is all that's really needed, but I'm going to give it 48 hours and try to avoid putting shellac over the white paint. Instead I'll just start with the black milk paint on Saturday. This way I can avoid having to put Extra Bond in w/ the black paint (it makes the paint very "elmer's glue-like" in consistency). If the white is fully cured and sanded down, the black won't bleed into it. Old school, baby!

JMPRO · December 1st, 2006, 01:31 PM

This is how they did it on New Yankee Workshop
Finishes
Question:
I happened to miss every ingrediant for the distressing process from the windsor chair project. Could you please list the ingrediants and the process again? Also, would the distressing work on any hardwood?
Thanks
Anthony Overkamp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer:
The fantastic finish was Sally Wallicks special process. Apply the following, drying between each step:
1. Aniline dye (dark walnut powder mixed with water)
2. Coat of lacquer to seal the dye
3. Oil-based semigloss paint; first red, then cover with black-green

The first distressing is done with a semi paste paint stripper, applying only where natural wear would occur. Leave it for 24 hours, then scrape off. Rub entire chair with steel wool.

Add a third coat of paint, black.

The second distressing is done with blasted walnut shells using compressed air.

Apply a dark walnut oil base stain, wiping off after application. Dry for 24 hours. Lastly apply a paste wax and buff it out.

Good luck and enjoy.

appar111 · December 5th, 2006, 10:48 AM

Update:

I know, I know, I haven't posted pics yet-- but between work, the holidays, planning a work trip, I've been too busy using my free time to work on the project rather than upload pics of it (although I have been taking some pics along the way).

Anyway, since I decided to forego the shellac on top of the white milk paint, I started with the black milk paint on Friday night. First coat on, then waited for a couple hours, sanded w/ 320 grit sponge block, then added second coat of milk paint. For both coats, I used a roller as it made the paint go on much more evenly. I also used the 320 grit on the 2nd coat, but only after it had cured for 1-2 days.

Then last night (Monday night) I added two coats of Tru-Oil, with 2 hours in between coats. The milk paint really sucked up the first coat, and alot of the second coat! It's not near as glossy as I want right now.

I'll try adding a couple more coats of the Tru-Oil, using either 0000 steel wool or some 320 or 400 grit in between coats.

The weird thing is, my test scrap of wood (a 2x4) was alot shinier. For it, I only used one coat of milk paint, one coat of Tru-Oil, a very thorough sanding after the Tru-Oil had cured , and another top coat of Tru-Oil, and it turned out smooth and fairly glossy, with a nice waxy shine to it. The thing is, I let it sit for a month or two before I sanded it down and added the second coat of Tru-Oil, since this was a summer/fall project that I put on hold for a while. Maybe that thorough sanding was what made the surface smoother so that the Tru-Oil really looked glossy on it?

I'm thinking I really need to sand the body down more so that the surface is smoother, that way when the next coats of Tru-Oil go on, it will be easier to get it glossy. I have a feeling I'll just need to be patient and use thin coats of the Tru-Oil built up.

Either that or some Minwax Wipe-On polyurethane (gloss) and some Minwax Paste Wax. That may get me there quicker.

Any other advice to get it shinier?

jwells393 · December 5th, 2006, 11:08 AM

Sounds like you need a card reader for getting pictures into your computer. I can take a picture and have it in my computer in no time at all.

appar111 · December 5th, 2006, 11:54 AM

Yeah, my card reader crapped out on me, and I'd have to hook up my camera, then pull the images over, etc. and I'd rather just be workin' on the guitar :)

FrankB · December 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM

do an ebonized finish...keep it flat
You can do a thin Black lacquer and finish with a satin lacquer that will look really mellow and clean

appar111 · December 5th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankB

do an ebonized finish...keep it flat
You can do a thin Black lacquer and finish with a satin lacquer that will look really mellow and clean

Not sure what you mean by "ebonized finish"? I'm doing all the finishing by hand & brush, i.e. no spraying.

The finish on this chair is what I would like for the body of my telecaster:

Mr. Sparkle · December 5th, 2006, 07:16 PM

When I saw this post , I kept thinking I've seen a guitar before with a Windsor-chair-type finish. Now I remember: Zemaitis S-24. See pic:

appar111 · December 5th, 2006, 10:32 PM

Yeah, that's nice! I figured the tele, with it's primitive look, would benefit from this type of finish. It will wear over the years nicely, and look better the more wear it gets.

I've been on way too many great relic sites (aka greenwich village custom guitars, revelator guitar works, etc.) and decided I'd do my own take on things, 'cept I'll be putting the wear on in a normal fashion, rather than accelerating it.

Latest update:

The milk paint not being sanded down smooth enough was the culprit for my finish woes (i.e. not glossing up enough). When I did my sanding tonight (w/ 220 grit) and took my time and used some elbow grease, it definitely smoothed things out. The great thing about the milk paint is those tiny areas where the sanding reveals the undercoat of white. Looks genuinely like an old finish at that point.

I added a decent coat of Tru-Oil after sanding the whole body & wiping it down w/ a soft cloth to remove milk paint dust. It's already starting to get that slight shiny, satiny/waxy look to it-- with only this first coat. I'll use 0000 steel wool in between coats at this point (as recommended on the bottle), as well as leaving plenty of time in between coats.

I'm ass

November 29th, 2006, 05:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
appar111 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Age: 33 Posts: 1,341	Black "Windsor chair" finish Telecaster project Well, I received my alder tele body yesterday from Warmoth and it looks great! I originally wanted to do a Tru-Oil finish on the body, but realized that you can see the lines where the pieces were joined. Not a huge deal, but it would only be magnified with something like Tru-Oil. So I decided to revive a project idea I had this summer-- using milk paint, varnish (i.e. Tru-Oil) and paste wax to give a tele body a black windsor-chair type finish. Kinda like this: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ndsorchair.jpg I also plan on putting an initial coat of white milk paint on first, followed by some shellac to keep it separated from the coats of black milk paint I'll apply later. That way as it wears & checks, the white finish will show underneath. Aside from figuring out the steps & allowing the proper time for each one (i.e. raising the grain, sanding it back down, applying a thin coat of shellac, sanding that down, applying the initial coat of white paint, etc.), I think this will be a really neat project. I tried two coats of black milk paint on a scrap piece of 2x4, let it dry for a few days, sanded down, coated it w/ Tru-Oil then knocked that down w/ sandpaper again and added another coat of the Tru-Oil, and I gotta say, the patina on this finish looks just like an old Windsor chair - somewhat waxy, satiny, but with nice depth, despite only being a super-thin coat of actual paint & Tru-Oil. I mean, it's really very little finish on top of the wood. If two coats of paint and two coats of Tru-Oil look this nice, I think taking a little more time with it will really make it look like a classy, aged & vintage inspired piece. It will have a birdseye maple neck, white pickguard, white (or possibly creme & black "zebra") neck humbucker, and a vintage bridge w/ brass saddles. Comments, thoughts, or suggestions as I venture forth?

November 29th, 2006, 08:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
BritishBluesBoy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Age: 40 Posts: 4,722 62 Photos	What a great idea. Sounds really pretty too... Show us some pics when you're done eh?? Cheers! BBB. __________________ BBB.

November 30th, 2006, 09:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
aunchaki Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Western New York Posts: 1,308 24 Photos	Sounds like it'll be unique! I love the look of yellow or red under black milk paint. Post picks as you go! __________________ Two Teles, One Strat, Two Acoustics (6 & 12 strings), One Solidbody Acoustic, Two Mandolins (4 & 8 strings), One Bass (5 strings)

November 30th, 2006, 01:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
chickshannon Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: North UK Posts: 255	Can anyone translate " milk paint " into U.K. please !!! ??? Cheers Chick __________________ " If things don't change, they stay as they are...."

November 30th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jelly Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 1,423 10 Photos	Hey Chick, it's casein paint. Used to really have milk in it. __________________ "I got on a bus and I went to Fresno because I thought Merle Haggard lived there."

November 30th, 2006, 01:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Little Nip TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 70	We recently finished a table with milk paint. First time I'd used it in 15 or more years. I was reminded how hard it is. It eats sandpaper like a locomotive eats coal. We should have made the paint thinner and applied more, even, flat coats. It does look great when its well sanded and oiled though!

November 30th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
jhundt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Age: 54 Posts: 3,131 9 Photos	I'm with Chick, more info please! can you describe the products and process a little more? I've heard of milk-paint, but I thought that stuff disappeared 100 years ago.

November 30th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
daviddoubleu Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 579 7 Photos	This sounds like it's going to be one classy looking Tele. I love the whole concept of combining that finish with the white pickguard, zebra/ white hummer and maple neck. Can't wait to see the pics!

November 30th, 2006, 03:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
68tele Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northport LI Posts: 670	I've sanded/planed some old doors that had been milk-painted @100 years ago...interesting aroma, to say the least.

November 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
pottedmeat42 Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richardson, Texas Posts: 462	this sounds like a great idea...i think this will turn out really nice. I've toyed w/the idea of using milk paints also (but never made it happen). Let us know how it turns out! -jason

December 1st, 2006, 12:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
freshmattyp Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kansas City Age: 43 Posts: 970 18 Photos	I really want to see the end result. This sounds like a good finish to attempt.

December 1st, 2006, 12:57 AM	#16 (permalink)
daviddoubleu Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 579 7 Photos	Thanks for the update, please keep it coming! These are my favorite threads.

December 1st, 2006, 11:58 AM	#17 (permalink)
appar111 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Age: 33 Posts: 1,341	Still no pics (haven't had the time to hook my digital cam up to my computer & upload pics. I ended up using the 320 grit sponge sanding block on the back & sides, with the 220 grit around the edges. I'm amazed at how smooth the snow white paint is looking - smooth & satiny. Feels great & very durable, yet still thin. I'm going to wait another day for the paint to cure even more-- 24 hours is all that's really needed, but I'm going to give it 48 hours and try to avoid putting shellac over the white paint. Instead I'll just start with the black milk paint on Saturday. This way I can avoid having to put Extra Bond in w/ the black paint (it makes the paint very "elmer's glue-like" in consistency). If the white is fully cured and sanded down, the black won't bleed into it. Old school, baby!

December 1st, 2006, 01:31 PM	#18 (permalink)
JMPRO Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 269 4 Photos	This is how they did it on New Yankee Workshop Finishes Question: I happened to miss every ingrediant for the distressing process from the windsor chair project. Could you please list the ingrediants and the process again? Also, would the distressing work on any hardwood? Thanks Anthony Overkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Answer: The fantastic finish was Sally Wallicks special process. Apply the following, drying between each step: 1. Aniline dye (dark walnut powder mixed with water) 2. Coat of lacquer to seal the dye 3. Oil-based semigloss paint; first red, then cover with black-green The first distressing is done with a semi paste paint stripper, applying only where natural wear would occur. Leave it for 24 hours, then scrape off. Rub entire chair with steel wool. Add a third coat of paint, black. The second distressing is done with blasted walnut shells using compressed air. Apply a dark walnut oil base stain, wiping off after application. Dry for 24 hours. Lastly apply a paste wax and buff it out. Good luck and enjoy.

December 5th, 2006, 10:48 AM	#19 (permalink)
appar111 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Age: 33 Posts: 1,341	Update: I know, I know, I haven't posted pics yet-- but between work, the holidays, planning a work trip, I've been too busy using my free time to work on the project rather than upload pics of it (although I have been taking some pics along the way). Anyway, since I decided to forego the shellac on top of the white milk paint, I started with the black milk paint on Friday night. First coat on, then waited for a couple hours, sanded w/ 320 grit sponge block, then added second coat of milk paint. For both coats, I used a roller as it made the paint go on much more evenly. I also used the 320 grit on the 2nd coat, but only after it had cured for 1-2 days. Then last night (Monday night) I added two coats of Tru-Oil, with 2 hours in between coats. The milk paint really sucked up the first coat, and alot of the second coat! It's not near as glossy as I want right now. I'll try adding a couple more coats of the Tru-Oil, using either 0000 steel wool or some 320 or 400 grit in between coats. The weird thing is, my test scrap of wood (a 2x4) was alot shinier. For it, I only used one coat of milk paint, one coat of Tru-Oil, a very thorough sanding after the Tru-Oil had cured , and another top coat of Tru-Oil, and it turned out smooth and fairly glossy, with a nice waxy shine to it. The thing is, I let it sit for a month or two before I sanded it down and added the second coat of Tru-Oil, since this was a summer/fall project that I put on hold for a while. Maybe that thorough sanding was what made the surface smoother so that the Tru-Oil really looked glossy on it? I'm thinking I really need to sand the body down more so that the surface is smoother, that way when the next coats of Tru-Oil go on, it will be easier to get it glossy. I have a feeling I'll just need to be patient and use thin coats of the Tru-Oil built up. Either that or some Minwax Wipe-On polyurethane (gloss) and some Minwax Paste Wax. That may get me there quicker. Any other advice to get it shinier?

December 5th, 2006, 11:08 AM	#20 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,505 101 Photos	Sounds like you need a card reader for getting pictures into your computer. I can take a picture and have it in my computer in no time at all. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

December 5th, 2006, 11:54 AM	#21 (permalink)
appar111 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Age: 33 Posts: 1,341	Yeah, my card reader crapped out on me, and I'd have to hook up my camera, then pull the images over, etc. and I'd rather just be workin' on the guitar :)

December 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM	#22 (permalink)
FrankB Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Havertown, PA. U.S.A. Posts: 749	do an ebonized finish...keep it flat You can do a thin Black lacquer and finish with a satin lacquer that will look really mellow and clean

December 5th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#24 (permalink)
Mr. Sparkle Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Carlsbad, CA Age: 41 Posts: 1,313 4 Photos	When I saw this post , I kept thinking I've seen a guitar before with a Windsor-chair-type finish. Now I remember: Zemaitis S-24. See pic: