Are toploaders truly evil???

Will Ferrule · November 15th, 2006, 02:25 PM

Greetings all:

This is my first post as a member of this distinguished community, inspired by becoming for the first time (as of 9:30am yesterday) a Telecaster owner.

I had been thinking about getting one for decades, and seriously looking for about a year. I had found a great '73 that I was hesitating over because it was $3000. Then this '83 showed up on Elderly's website for $800, which made it an easy buy. When it arrived, it was one of the best guitars I'd played in 36 years of playing: great weight and balance, perfect (for me) neck profile, and without question the loudest, most resonant and downright twangy unamplified solidbody I've ever played.

What's my beef? I got a guitar that I really like and that makes me want to pick it up and play. So shut up and play, right?

I very nearly didn't buy it because of the toploading bridge that comes on the '83-4 models. The conventional wisdom is that the "string-through" bridge gets more of the true Telecaster tone. I'd really like to know if this is true. I thought the vibration of the string is transferred to the body at the saddle. The portion of the string between the saddle and the string anchor doesn't vibrate significantly if at all, so how can it affect tone?

We guitar players sometimes believe the myths about guitars instead of the facts. That's because we are emotional, sensitive and intuitive types. Maybe I think my '83 is great because the guitar-myth-loving part of me expected it be a tone-sucking boat anchor.

Anyone else had similar experience? Either with toploaders or guitar myths?

timgreene · November 15th, 2006, 02:30 PM

mostly, myth. I like that six barrel bridge on those. Others will swear you can tell the difference.

Fourth Feline · November 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Nice to have you on the forum.

IMHO top loaders are NOT evil, I have played one for 20 years and it sounds really nice. I am no expert on the difference, but I know I love my toploader.

I did however hear a big difference when I converted from a 6 saddle to 3 saddle bridge though, much more resonance and twang now !

Stuco · November 15th, 2006, 02:32 PM

probably not much difference. You could make it a string through though.

fullerplast · November 15th, 2006, 02:41 PM

Listen to just a little bit of Jim Campilongo and you'll have your answer....

0le FUZZY · November 15th, 2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

the loudest, most resonant and downright twangy unamplified solidbody I've ever played

...Its snotta mith if yew plug it in.

The STILLWATER SAVAGE BAND(click)
Terry Downs shows us how(click)
Terry Downs wanna be HEE! HEE!(click)

Please visit my page

Rich Rice · November 15th, 2006, 02:44 PM

I've had both string thru and top loaders, and loved them. I like the 3 barrel system better, but it is up to you as a player to decide if you are satisfied with your guitar- not our call. If it plays good, and sounds good, then it probably is good...

Glad to meet you, and welcome to the forum!

Rich Rice

Will Ferrule · November 15th, 2006, 03:36 PM

Thanks fer the advice Mr. Fuzzy. I just plugged it in and it sounded louder, resonanter and twangyer...

As to converting it to a string-through, I thought of that. $50 in parts and 6 holes. But for now, I'm prepared to say it ain't broke so I'm not fixin'.

0le FUZZY · November 15th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

I just plugged it in and it sounded louder, resonanter and twangyer...

...HEE! HEE! yew liddo dickins yew!

...The onlee real and true thang I kin say negative bout the top-load iss the fact that whence yer on stage a wankin away playin power chords the strings go jingle jangle tew much specially on em 83s with the Elite 6-saddle bridges.

...The really positive thang bout them iss yew kin change out the lead P/U without de-stringin them. Good fer A/B'in P/Us onna fly and at the same time and setting.

...OH! BTW, WELCOME!

The STILLWATER SAVAGE BAND(click)
Terry Downs shows us how(click)
Terry Downs wanna be HEE! HEE!(click)

Please visit my page

TG · November 15th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Les Pauls are top-loaded. Doesn't seem to bother them.

The tele Jimmy Page used on the early Led Zep and on Stairway to Heaven was a '59 top-loader, I think.
I think.....

Anyway...the only differences are the break angle over the bridge saddles, the direction of pull on the bridge itself (if that makes much difference to a screwed down plate anyway), and the overall length of the strings from tuners to ball ends. A shorter overall length will make the guitar seem a bit looser to play since you are stretching less length of metal when you bend/fret.

I'd have no complaints with a top-loader.

seafoamtele · November 15th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Jim Campilongo DEFINITELY sounds evil. . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullerplast

Listen to just a little bit of Jim Campilongo and you'll have your answer....

Bones · November 15th, 2006, 04:18 PM

The Sparkle one is a top loader with 3 steel saddles. It's a partscaster that I have about $160.00 into and I love it, sounds great, good sustain and all that(everyone here hates the black headstock

)

chickenpicker · November 15th, 2006, 05:11 PM

If I'd just spent $800 dollars on an '83 tele, I would not be likely to drill holes in it!

I converted my cheap Mexican tele to string through, but only because I wasn't happy with the low pressure on the bridge causing problems. If yours works ok, leave well alone.

reverberocket2 · November 15th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Ferrule

Thanks fer the advice Mr. Fuzzy. I just plugged it in and it sounded louder, resonanter and twangyer...

As to converting it to a string-through, I thought of that. $50 in parts and 6 holes. But for now, I'm prepared to say it ain't broke so I'm not fixin'.

Your '83 is a vintage guitar -- please don't convert. If you decide you need to have a string through just sell your toploader to someone who appreciates it and buy a string thorugh.

Jeff Buckley used an '83-'84 toploader and they are definitely becoming collectable

Other notable toploader users include Jimmy Page and Jim Campilongo

jfp · November 15th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Don't forget Kid Ramos' Esquire!

'caster oil · November 15th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Own 'em both, love 'em both... welcome, man.

JamonHamon · November 15th, 2006, 07:30 PM

I have a 83 Top Loader and love it!!!... I played it against a new 52ri and I liked the 83 better!!!... Then I put a Glendale Bridge with cutting edge twang saddles it even better now!!! I would like to put a treble bleed on the volume

I almost forgot to ask what color is yours ???? Mine is a sunburst

Will Ferrule · November 15th, 2006, 09:16 PM

Thanks to all for the advice and the welcome! Guitars are clearly more interesting and less dangerous than politics...

Although I never really thought of an '83 as a vintage guitar, I guess it is. Because they were produced right at the end of the CBS era, the '83 and '84 Teles and Strats are among the last made in Fullerton, the ancestral and spiritual home of Fenders. Hopefully that means it will go up in value like crazy. That said, there's no way I'll be taking the Black and Decker to it.

JamonHamon: It's black with a laminated black guard with 5 screws. One-piece maple neck with skunk stripe.

kp8 · November 15th, 2006, 09:26 PM

top loaders rock.

Boxelder · November 15th, 2006, 09:31 PM

i wish i had back all the toploaders i sold :(

Poppatwang · November 16th, 2006, 09:09 AM

I had an '83 for an extended test drive. It was a rip snorter and I'd of kept
it but the owner backed out of the sale. Not that it matters, but it looked
like the routing was done with a trained beaver.

tpaul · November 16th, 2006, 09:44 AM

Well, Mr. Ferrule, if you did decide to convert to a string-through, you'd have the right name for it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously, stop analyzing and play. If you want you can pick up a cheap string-through Squier Tele with your leftover $2,200 and compare (and still have another $2,000 left for buying a drill press).

Jelly · November 16th, 2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverberocket2

Your '83 is a vintage guitar -- please don't convert. If you decide you need to have a string through just sell your toploader to someone who appreciates it and buy a string thorugh.

Good point.

msteurbaut · November 16th, 2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

...HEE! HEE! yew liddo dickins yew!

...The onlee real and true thang I kin say negative bout the top-load iss the fact that whence yer on stage a wankin away playin power chords the strings go jingle jangle tew much specially on em 83s with the Elite 6-saddle bridges.

...The really positive thang bout them iss yew kin change out the lead P/U without de-stringin them. Good fer A/B'in P/Us onna fly and at the same time and setting.

...OH! BTW, WELCOME!

The STILLWATER SAVAGE BAND(click)
Terry Downs shows us how(click)
Terry Downs wanna be HEE! HEE!(click)

Please visit my page

I had to put heavier strings on my Squier top loader to get the same action as my tele. How come top loaders need heavier strings?

0le FUZZY · November 16th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

How come top loaders need heavier strings?

...I kant ant-sir that specifically but I kin in general from experience.

...Back inna day (I noe, I noe, none body cares) I used tew pick on my fiddy nine Esquire 4 nites a week. At the time (early 70s) the Super Slinkys were all the rage and I used them fer a few months but hadda drag along tew erry gig 4 or five extra liddo E and B strings cause I wassa trynna use 9 guage and wood break won er tew erry nite. They wood rattle and move round sunthin fearce even on those threaded bridge saddles and sounded weak and thin.

...I switched tew 10 guage GHS er Fenner 150s and it helped but still dent sound rite. Even the Thinline II sounded better over all.

...I jes think the strings ain't held down positive enuff fer a hard picker like me. I know there are sum like Jim C. that pick jes fine with em.

...Top loaders are fine iffin yew mute a lot and haff a lite touch onna strings.

...Heavy strings hold down better onna bridge iss all I kin figger in yer case.

0le FUZZY

November 15th, 2006, 02:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Will Ferrule TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 41	Are toploaders truly evil??? Greetings all: This is my first post as a member of this distinguished community, inspired by becoming for the first time (as of 9:30am yesterday) a Telecaster owner. I had been thinking about getting one for decades, and seriously looking for about a year. I had found a great '73 that I was hesitating over because it was $3000. Then this '83 showed up on Elderly's website for $800, which made it an easy buy. When it arrived, it was one of the best guitars I'd played in 36 years of playing: great weight and balance, perfect (for me) neck profile, and without question the loudest, most resonant and downright twangy unamplified solidbody I've ever played. What's my beef? I got a guitar that I really like and that makes me want to pick it up and play. So shut up and play, right? I very nearly didn't buy it because of the toploading bridge that comes on the '83-4 models. The conventional wisdom is that the "string-through" bridge gets more of the true Telecaster tone. I'd really like to know if this is true. I thought the vibration of the string is transferred to the body at the saddle. The portion of the string between the saddle and the string anchor doesn't vibrate significantly if at all, so how can it affect tone? We guitar players sometimes believe the myths about guitars instead of the facts. That's because we are emotional, sensitive and intuitive types. Maybe I think my '83 is great because the guitar-myth-loving part of me expected it be a tone-sucking boat anchor. Anyone else had similar experience? Either with toploaders or guitar myths?

November 15th, 2006, 02:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
timgreene Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,225 10 Photos	mostly, myth. I like that six barrel bridge on those. Others will swear you can tell the difference. __________________ opinions expressed are the view of the author, and are not necesarily correct.

November 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fourth Feline Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yorkshire, England. Age: 49 Posts: 669	Welcome Will ! Nice to have you on the forum. IMHO top loaders are NOT evil, I have played one for 20 years and it sounds really nice. I am no expert on the difference, but I know I love my toploader. I did however hear a big difference when I converted from a 6 saddle to 3 saddle bridge though, much more resonance and twang now ! __________________ " The blues is the truth : happy or sad - just the truth "

November 15th, 2006, 02:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rich Rice Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In a dream world.. Just ask my wife. Age: 53 Posts: 2,474 11 Photos	I've had both string thru and top loaders, and loved them. I like the 3 barrel system better, but it is up to you as a player to decide if you are satisfied with your guitar- not our call. If it plays good, and sounds good, then it probably is good... Glad to meet you, and welcome to the forum! Rich Rice __________________ Please visit my website! If you are driven to play, you will find a way.

November 15th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#16 (permalink)
'caster oil Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 692 1 Photos	Own 'em both, love 'em both... welcome, man. __________________ "Capo on the fourth fret." Keef

November 15th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stuco Friend of Leo's Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: GA Posts: 2,758	probably not much difference. You could make it a string through though.

November 15th, 2006, 02:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
fullerplast Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 953	Listen to just a little bit of Jim Campilongo and you'll have your answer....

November 15th, 2006, 03:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
Will Ferrule TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 41	Thanks fer the advice Mr. Fuzzy. I just plugged it in and it sounded louder, resonanter and twangyer... As to converting it to a string-through, I thought of that. $50 in parts and 6 holes. But for now, I'm prepared to say it ain't broke so I'm not fixin'.

November 15th, 2006, 04:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
TG Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Beside a bog in the west of Ireland Age: 46 Posts: 4,344 7 Photos	Les Pauls are top-loaded. Doesn't seem to bother them. The tele Jimmy Page used on the early Led Zep and on Stairway to Heaven was a '59 top-loader, I think. I think..... Anyway...the only differences are the break angle over the bridge saddles, the direction of pull on the bridge itself (if that makes much difference to a screwed down plate anyway), and the overall length of the strings from tuners to ball ends. A shorter overall length will make the guitar seem a bit looser to play since you are stretching less length of metal when you bend/fret. I'd have no complaints with a top-loader.

November 15th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bones Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,920 1 Photos	The Sparkle one is a top loader with 3 steel saddles. It's a partscaster that I have about $160.00 into and I love it, sounds great, good sustain and all that(everyone here hates the black headstock )

November 15th, 2006, 05:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
chickenpicker Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,060 14 Photos	If I'd just spent $800 dollars on an '83 tele, I would not be likely to drill holes in it! I converted my cheap Mexican tele to string through, but only because I wasn't happy with the low pressure on the bridge causing problems. If yours works ok, leave well alone.

November 15th, 2006, 07:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
jfp Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 267 3 Photos	Don't forget Kid Ramos' Esquire!

November 15th, 2006, 07:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
JamonHamon Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,245	I have a 83 Top Loader and love it!!!... I played it against a new 52ri and I liked the 83 better!!!... Then I put a Glendale Bridge with cutting edge twang saddles it even better now!!! I would like to put a treble bleed on the volume I almost forgot to ask what color is yours ???? Mine is a sunburst

November 15th, 2006, 09:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
Will Ferrule TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 41	Thanks to all for the advice and the welcome! Guitars are clearly more interesting and less dangerous than politics... Although I never really thought of an '83 as a vintage guitar, I guess it is. Because they were produced right at the end of the CBS era, the '83 and '84 Teles and Strats are among the last made in Fullerton, the ancestral and spiritual home of Fenders. Hopefully that means it will go up in value like crazy. That said, there's no way I'll be taking the Black and Decker to it. JamonHamon: It's black with a laminated black guard with 5 screws. One-piece maple neck with skunk stripe.

November 15th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
kp8 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 2,552	top loaders rock.

November 15th, 2006, 09:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
Boxelder Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Omaha Nebraska Age: 36 Posts: 176 2 Photos	i wish i had back all the toploaders i sold :( __________________ NOTE If I'm posting, I've been drinking. my website

November 16th, 2006, 09:09 AM	#21 (permalink)
Poppatwang Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 1,835 13 Photos	I had an '83 for an extended test drive. It was a rip snorter and I'd of kept it but the owner backed out of the sale. Not that it matters, but it looked like the routing was done with a trained beaver. __________________ The Dieselfitters http://www.dieselfitters.com Roy Hubbs http://www.royhubbs.com

November 16th, 2006, 09:44 AM	#22 (permalink)
tpaul Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 685	Ha! Well, Mr. Ferrule, if you did decide to convert to a string-through, you'd have the right name for it. Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously, stop analyzing and play. If you want you can pick up a cheap string-through Squier Tele with your leftover $2,200 and compare (and still have another $2,000 left for buying a drill press).