Weber...AlNiCo or Ceramic magnet ?????

[Eppo Franken]

Hi,

Wondering which one to choose; California 12 with an AlNiCo or Ceramic magnet.

What is the difference between those two speakers ????

What's your opinion ????? Experienced ?????



Eppo Franken
The Netherlands

[Dacious]

Do you want a more vintage, softer, warmer tone? Or a brighter cleaner more modern sound? Alnico tends to sound like you're playing through an old stereogram.

Ceramic sounds a bit more hi-fi and usually gives more headroom. Alnico magnets aren't as efficient, so at very low and high frequencies they tend to lose the plot a little. This gives a similar effect to compression.

Alnico is called the 'musical' magnet.

[telemann51]

Ted Weber told me that for my application (Peavey Classic 30) I would likely not be pushing the speaker hard enough to be able to tell the difference and recommended that I not spend the extra money for Alnico. I have not yet received the speaker so I don't have a review to give.

[Eppo Franken]

It's not clear to me what Headroom exactly means, I can't translate the word to a Dutch definition.

But for so far the Ceramic tends to be better for me.
Am I right?

I use a Fender Custom Shop Relic Nocaster and 2 Silverface Twin Reverbs, with Master Volume.
Playin' all styles of countrymusic.

I need a speaker with lots of definition in the lows and not to Icepicky highs......



Eppo

[Dacious]

Ceramic = brighter, perhaps treblier, slightly more response overall, bass and treble.

Alnico = more earthy, seems to 'sing', colours the sound in a 'ringy' sort of way, emphasises mids.

The Californias are all efficient loud, speakers, so this difference is not enormous - more a nuance.

To get the best of both worlds, some people use one of each.

Your MV amps will have ceramics now.

[eryque]

Originally Posted by Eppo Franken

It's not clear to me what Headroom exactly means, I can't translate the word to a Dutch definition.

Headroom is how far up you can turn the volume before you start to get distortion or breakup. Ceramic-magnet speakers typically stay clean up to higher volume levels, so they have more headroom.

[Eppo Franken]

Is it really an option to put 1 ceramic and 1 alnico speaker in one amp???

I understand that ceramics produce a little more treble, but due to that treble, does it have less treble than a Jensen ...?????????

At the moment I use the Fender speakers of my old Reissue '65 Twin Reverb Amp, but I don't like them very much. They have the brown/yellow paper on the magnet.

As I said earlier, I don't want to much treble.


:P

Eppo

[eryque]

Lotsa folks use two different speakers in their amps to combine the best qualities of the different speakers. Some speakers sound good together, and some don't compliment each other at all. A great place to ask more is on the bulleting boards at WeberVST, or to ask Ted directly. http://www.webervst.com/wwwboard/spe...spkboard.html?

I don't know if there's a Jensen model similar to the California, but I do know that the Jensen RI C12N speaker has a little bit of a shrill high end when compared to Weber's C12N.

[jvc]

I will paraphrase a quote from Impala, who spoke of this here a while back, " Don't all you vintage homos start crying". The Blindfold test is the true test. Teles and amps are like apples and oranges (no reference to Orange brand amps). Some people like Teles to squeal and break glass. Others like em warm and mean, like the humbucker models. The same goes for amps, some likes em to bite yer head off with thin treble and some likes em to be woman sounding (warm and fat). And the same applies to speakers. It's ALL subjective. I've played Custom Shop Teles and Strats that sounded and/or played better than real original vintage Fenders. I've also played some vintage Fenders that killed any other guitars on the planet. The bottom line is, try everything you can git yer hands on and if you like it, and can afford it (old or new) buy it! jvc

[Robin Nahum]

I play jazz and go for a smoother cleaner sound. I have a 74 Pro Reverb (2 x 12) and, more recently, a '69 Vibrolux Reverb (2 x10).

When I bought the Vibrolux, I installed reissue Jensen P10Rs which are AlNiCo hoping to get that 'more vintage, softer, warmer tone'. This seemed to be the thing to do as Jensens were used in the BF Vibrolux. The Jensens replaced the original ceramic speakers (CTS I think) that were sounding very flat.

I used the Jensens for about nine months but eventually came to the view that they were more... er... gritty than I wanted.... more of a rock and roll or country speaker to my ears. This was in contrast to the Pro which had the ceramics and a 'bigger' sound.

I've now installed two ceramic Weber 10F150s in the Vibrolux, and I'm much happier, even though they have made the amp a bit heavier.

I have discussed this with my guitar tech and his experience is that the old AlNiCo speakers have the 'musical' tone but if you want smooth tone off the shelf, ceramic is the way to go.

RN

[Dacious]

The caveat on Robin's post is the resissue Jensens are known for a bit of spiky top-end and breakup at volume, due to their design compared to the originals. Ted Weber who sold them for a while himself commented on this. I have a new Jensen P12R in a new 5E3 and it is a BRIGHT SPIKY speaker. I also have a P10R and it too is spiky. You can still pick both as alnico. It is not anywhere near as round and smooth as either a Rola 15" Celestion alnico copy I have, nor a 20 year old Japanese 'Voice' copy of what I believe is a Jensen P12N. It may even be a repainted, rebadged P12N - it looks that close.

There's not a lot in this, and Weber's alnico and ceramics in the same model are not worlds apart. I believe you would be very happy with either. Ceramics stay a little cleaner and neutral-sounding. Alnicos tend to add some colouration - for jazz perhaps not an ideal thing.

Given that MV Twins tend to bright, clean I just thought you might like something that gives them colour.

[Drak]

I've gone thru at least 1/2 of Ted's catalog over the years.

My generalization is:

Ceramics - better for country (twang), jazz, and high-gain Metal.
Alnico - better for blues, blues-rock, and old-school rock and roll.

This is just a generalization, but I think it (generally) fits.

I'd go for the ceramic Cali's. I had a pair in my old '72 Twin, sounded fabulous. Big, clean and meaty. Nothing shrill in them.

[jimmiboots]

As everyone has said so far, it gets pretty subjective, but the bottom line is that Ted Weber makes the worlds best speakers: buy whatever you want, and then buy the others later! I've got Weber speakers laying around all over my house, and they are all great....

[telemann51]

Originally Posted by telemann51

Ted Weber told me that for my application (Peavey Classic 30) I would likely not be pushing the speaker hard enough to be able to tell the difference and recommended that I not spend the extra money for Alnico. I have not yet received the speaker so I don't have a review to give.

I received my Weber CA this morning and posted in another thread about it. It's the thread I started, asking about speaker choices for the C30.

Short synopsis: the speaker gives a wonderful thick clean tone and sounds warmer and bigger than the old speaker. Makes the C30 sound like a more expensive amp!

[Eppo Franken]

In my '65 RI Twin Reverb Amp are Eminence speakers,
I think it's the G1.
At this moment they're placed in my 1973 SF Twin Reverb.

I don't like that sound very much....

What do you think....????


Eppo