NTC- pod live scenario...looking for feedback (no pun intend

[FRETCOM]

Don't shoot me yet! I own and use a Fender HRD tube amp. But...I have a question regarding occassionaly using the POD in a live scenario for various reasons.

I will try before I but but I thought I would ask around...would hooking up a POD to say...a powered monitor...something that will not color the sound of the POD...work great in a live scenario? I would need stage/gig volume and I need to keep the POD guitar sound out of the pa (that's where we keep the vocals only).

I appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Regards,

fretcom
www.geocities.com/smilingrhinos

[Ward]

So like a keyboard amp behind you? I've tried it with a RP100 and J-station and had mediocre results. Tough to get it to cut through. However, I've heard pickers get great tones out of Line 6 stuff. So there's some secret that you've got to fiddle with it and the monitor you're using for a while. The sound you get through the headphones is not the same as you will get live. You've got to mess with it in a gig setting to get what you want to hear. Ward

[John Harrison]

I've seen/heard a couple of pro solo acts using a Pod (thru the PA), and wasn't really impressed. It was okay for some sounds and pretty awful for others. I suppose it's an answer for some situations (especially on a tight touring budget or who don't want to haul a lot of gear around), but I would give a thumbs down on the most important considation (sound).
I got a heads up on them, when they were first coming out, from a studio musician-friend in LA. His insights are pretty much what I've observed - they're very cool for recording, but not really suited for live applications.

[Bob Rogers]

I've used a POD through a PA extensively. While it is not a plug and play operation, it is not all that hard to get good sounds that sit well in the mix. As mentioned above, you need to tweak your settings through the equipment you intend to use (preferably with the band) to have a good idea how it will sound live. (If you have done any home recording, you know not to do the final mixdown through headphones - same idea.)

If you are using a POD 2.0 you can get a lot more control over the settings using the eMagic sound driver and your computer, but the software is pretty buggy. Expect to spend some time to get it working.

On a more basic level, you have to understand what a POD is trying to do if you are going to know what it can and can't do. The most important thing to remember is that the POD doesn't really model an amp and speakers or even the output of the amp. It models a miced amp and speakers. Some people get disappointed when the POD doesn't reproduce the sound that you get on stage from a Fender/Marshall/Matchless/etc. It is not trying to do that. It is trying to send the same signal to the PA that you would get if you miced the Fender/Marshall/Matchless/etc. offstage in an isolation cabinet.

The sound of a real amp is an infinite dimensional sound wave. The voltage delivered by a mic is one dimensional. They are not the same animal. But of course those one dimensional voltages have created great recordings and produced great PA mixes in large venues when treated right.

This is why I think the common wisdom “the POD is OK for recording, but doesn’t work live” needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If they are talking about a small venue where the audience is listening to the amps rather than the PA this might make sense (though I think that even in small venues you can get a better overall mix with PODs through a PA). However, if they are talking about a situation where the audience is hearing only the PA they are implying that the voltage signal that sounded good in a recording doesn’t sound good in a PA mix. I don’t believe this. The main difference between a recorded mix and a live mix is compression. If the signal was OK for recording but no good into the PA, then Line6 got the tone (the hard part) right, but got the dynamics (the easy part) wrong. My guess is that people form this opinion in small venues or on stage (where they are comparing live amp sound to PA sound). If you like recorded POD sounds, you can feed those same sounds into the PA mix with no bleed from the bass, drums, or roadies footsteps.

[John Harrison]

A couple of points:
I've never used a POD. The closest I've ever come to a POD is a Morley JD-10 and an early Scholz Rockman.

I based my opinion on word of mouth from a 1st call, L.A. studio musician (fwiw, his opinion is every bit as subjective as mine or anyone else's) who was, along with a bunch of others, putting the POD to heavy use in the studio recording environment. He gave it high marks in that application, but, whe he'e tried it in live applications, he hated it (again his subjective opinion).

As for the few times I've seen/heard it used, it was in theater-sized venues, my seats varied from 3rd row center, to middle of the floor section, to a balcony seat; so, I'd have to say I heard a pretty good mix of amp and/or p.a.. The musicians were solo acts (twice) and a trio (guitar, upright bass and percussionist). In the overdriven and/or heavily effected "simulations", the POD was passable. In the cleaner applications, I'd equate it's sounds to piezzo pickups - which I don't like - obvious and, to my ears, displeasing sound (both acoustic and electric guitars used).

Since the acts were professional (opening act-level); since the venues are reputable; since the sound was fine for the other acts (acknowledging that, sometimes, opening acts don't get adequate soundchecks); I can only assume that somebody knew what they were doing and I didn't appreciate the sound.

The opinion I shared is based upon what I've heard and what I was told, by someone who's insights and experience I trust. I don't dispute your opinion or experiences - I appreciate reading them - nor do I attempt to diminish them. I was only attempting to share what I "knew".

[trag-o-caster]

On my Tuesday gig, I'm hired as a solo act, hosting an open mic night. I usually play acoustic, but I'll take an electric as well because you just never know when someone will show up with a drum kit and a bass rig and want to play some electric stuff. For those times, I plug into my Digitech RP100 (which is pretty bad on it's own) and set it up for just reverb and compression (sometimes a pinch of delay). From there, I go into my Morley JD10, which stays on the clean side, speaker simulation on, gain up about half way, or a tad more. This gets a nice Fendery tone through the PA. I like it a lot - so much so that I've been tempted to try it for my regular band gigs.

The Morley JD10 is really the only amp simulator that I've tried that really works well through the PA. It also works well into a regular guitar amp (while the other simulators won't) as an overdrive box. It even sounds great into a bass amp for guitar use! It's my favorite guitar gizmo of all time.

[astro]

Not that you are trying to emaulte anything near what they are doing, but Weezer uses pod pros almost exclusively.

Rivers says that they put all of the gear on stage and A/B it evrytime they play and the pod usually sounds better so they go with the POD.

I say that it doesn't hurt to try it out once first.

[Bob Rogers]

John-

I'm not doubting your experience as a listener in the audience (which I think is the crucial thing here). But we've all been in concerts where pretty good players get bad tone (or at least tone we don't like) from good equipment. And I've heard (and mixed) lots of situations where the POD sounded great. (Though I admit that the cleanest tones are where it is weakest - recorded or live.)

Also, I'm not trying to shill for the POD. It's only the unit of this type that I've had the most experience with. I'm just a firm believer that you can deliver great sound to the audience with an "ampless" setup. I think the fact that in many cases an ampless setup delivers worse sound to the stage has prejudiced many musicians against the POD, etc. Bad stage sound is an argument for better monitors, not for getting rid of PODs. (And remember, there are usually no paying customers on stage.)

I think that exploring the "good recorded, bad live" wisdom is important. Why do the artificial, displeasing sounds you hear disappear when they get recorded? Why do they show up in a live PA mix? We do know one thing - in the studio you can do a true apples to apples comparison - recorded POD to miced amp. The POD comes out pretty well. But if we believe the conventional wisdom, when we listen to the same two signals in a room of 1000 people through a hugh PA we will hear subtle difference that were not apparent through the Sony headphones and Tannoy near field monitors in the nice quiet studio. I dunno... sounds suspicious.

[Rusty]

Bob Rogers covered most of it. The only thing I would add is that running through the PA and using in-ear monitors is the best format in which to use an amp modeler onstage.

As a "baby act" opening for the big boys, I've always liked having such a compact rig (J-Station btw) that I could get my same sounds out of in any room or on any stage with no surprises or headaches. If the gig permits, I can always run my tweed Bassman cab for some stage fill, but that's just for my ego mostly and for "the look".

Most of the touring acts I've ran across use in-ear monitors, so even the amp guys have their amps offstage and rely on their ear buds to do the rest. If you need a guitar amp onstage, I'd stick with a guitar amp.

Hope this helps!