Level & Crown

[erlinger]

I've got a couple of embarrassing questions about fretwork. I had been using the same luthier for the last 15 years, but I moved and recently had the frets on my Telecaster "leveled & crowned." I've read many posts on the matter and Rob's fret level & crown tutorial, but here goes:

(1) After a proper level and crown, should the height of each fret be roughly the same?

(2) After a proper level and crown should there be a radius to the individual fret which mimics the radius of the fretboard? For example: should a particular fret on a '52 telecaster have a 7.25" radius and thus be the same height when measured under the low E string, the G string, and the high E string?

I ask because the recent level and crown left me with frets ranging from a 1st fret that is .052" tall to a 21st fret that is .038" tall. The frets in between are not uniform in heighth. For example: its .042" at the 6th fret; .045" at the 13th fret to .041" at the 17th fret. For each of these measurements, I measured the height of the fret in the area of the fret between the D and G strings.

Additionally, any given fret on my Telecaster is taller under the low E string than under the B string--on some frets the difference measures .005".


What prompted these questions is that I like a pretty flat fretboard. My Telecaster has 7.25" radius, I'm playing 11-52 gauge La Bella's, have the action at 1/16th under the high E string at the 12th fret and 5/64ths under the low E string. Currently, I need relief of at least .013 (measured with a notched straight edge at the 10th fret) to prevent the high E from buzzing. I'd like to take the relief down to about .006.

In short, I'm asking if the level & crown was not done well or if I'm just trying to set the action too low on my Telecaster.

Thanks for any help,
Mike

[GUITARmole]

Originally Posted by erlinger

I've got a couple of embarrassing questions about fretwork. I had been using the same luthier for the last 15 years, but I moved and recently had the frets on my Telecaster "leveled & crowned." I've read many posts on the matter and Rob's fret level & crown tutorial, but here goes:

(1) After a proper level and crown, should the height of each fret be roughly the same?

(2) After a proper level and crown should there be a radius to the individual fret which mimics the radius of the fretboard? For example: should a particular fret on a '52 telecaster have a 7.25" radius and thus be the same height when measured under the low E string, the G string, and the high E string?

I ask because the recent level and crown left me with frets ranging from a 1st fret that is .052" tall to a 21st fret that is .038" tall. The frets in between are not uniform in heighth. For example: its .042" at the 6th fret; .045" at the 13th fret to .041" at the 17th fret. For each of these measurements, I measured the height of the fret in the area of the fret between the D and G strings.

Additionally, any given fret on my Telecaster is taller under the low E string than under the B string--on some frets the difference measures .005".


What prompted these questions is that I like a pretty flat fretboard. My Telecaster has 7.25" radius, I'm playing 11-52 gauge La Bella's, have the action at 1/16th under the high E string at the 12th fret and 5/64ths under the low E string. Currently, I need relief of at least .013 (measured with a notched straight edge at the 10th fret) to prevent the high E from buzzing. I'd like to take the relief down to about .006.

In short, I'm asking if the level & crown was not done well or if I'm just trying to set the action too low on my Telecaster.

Thanks for any help,
Mike

1. Yes...'roughly'. Sometimes it's necessary to induce some 'falloff' into the fretboard by progressively filing down the higher frets if you want to get the action ultra-low so it wouldn't be unusual for fret 12 to be higher than 13, 13 to be slightly higher than 14, etc. You also have to take into consideration the fretboard itself...is it level? Does the fretboard have high/low spots? If so the base of the fret will follow the dips in the fretboard and to level the frets they will have to be taller wherever there is a low spot on the surface of the fretboard.

2. Yes and No. Yes, if that's what you desire ( a 7.25" radius fretboard ). If you have enough fret left (or install super tall frets) there's no reason not to take a little extra off in the center of the fretboard and make the radius flatter if that's what the player prefers. I personally like a 9.5" much better than the vintage 7.25" where others like more curve.

Simply put, if you're happy with the way your guitar plays it was done well and if not the setup sucks...assuming your guitar is in good shape (there's only so much correction or improvement possible with a fret level).

Also take into consideration that this is my non-expert opinion and that it's nearly impossible to make any conclusive statements without seeing the guitar in person.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by erlinger

I've got a couple of embarrassing questions about fretwork. I had been using the same luthier for the last 15 years, but I moved and recently had the frets on my Telecaster "leveled & crowned." I've read many posts on the matter and Rob's fret level & crown tutorial, but here goes:

(1) After a proper level and crown, should the height of each fret be roughly the same?

Yes.

(2) After a proper level and crown should there be a radius to the individual fret which mimics the radius of the fretboard? For example: should a particular fret on a '52 telecaster have a 7.25" radius and thus be the same height when measured under the low E string, the G string, and the high E string?

Maybe, if that's what you want. Frets can also be leveled to a different radius than the fretboard. You play off the frets, not the fingerboard.

I ask because the recent level and crown left me with frets ranging from a 1st fret that is .052" tall to a 21st fret that is .038" tall. The frets in between are not uniform in heighth. For example: its .042" at the 6th fret; .045" at the 13th fret to .041" at the 17th fret. For each of these measurements, I measured the height of the fret in the area of the fret between the D and G strings.

I wouldn't consider that kinda work, what you've just described, a proper "level and crown".

Additionally, any given fret on my Telecaster is taller under the low E string than under the B string--on some frets the difference measures .005".

What prompted these questions is that I like a pretty flat fretboard. My Telecaster has 7.25" radius, I'm playing 11-52 gauge La Bella's, have the action at 1/16th under the high E string at the 12th fret and 5/64ths under the low E string. Currently, I need relief of at least .013 (measured with a notched straight edge at the 10th fret) to prevent the high E from buzzing. I'd like to take the relief down to about .006.

In short, I'm asking if the level & crown was not done well or if I'm just trying to set the action too low on my Telecaster.

Given yer testimony, it appears as if yer L&C is lacking.

Thanks for any help,
Mike

All that matters is whether or not the guitar offers the playability that you seek.

[erlinger]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info. and the help.

Mike

[PK]

I think the definitiin of a float is for the frets to be ABSOLUTELY level, and the crown work to make the frets feel buttery smooth. I recomend anyone who buys a squire, MIM, or any knock off for that matter to do the float/crown work before any other mods. A good float/crown job will make almost any axe play as well as the best of the custom shop guitars. After the playability is perfect, then and only then would I think about pup mods. Just my opinion of course.

PK

[bwanasonic]

Originally Posted by PK

I think the definitiin of a float

A float? I am unfamiliar with that term in the context of guitar repair - is that a regional term for a fret level?

Kerry M

[PK]

Originally Posted by bwanasonic

A float? I am unfamiliar with that term in the context of guitar repair - is that a regional term for a fret level?

Kerry M

It might be a regional term to refer to leveling the frets as floating them. I had a squier years ago, and a luthier convinced me to let him "seat", "float", then crown the frets. I asked him what he meant and he told me the importance of level frets that are well seated, and convinced me the crowning gave them a buttery feel. He explained to me, that in his opinion, one of the primary differences between a less expensive production guitar and a hand built guitar was the finish work on the frets at the end of the line (lack of fret work to be more exact). He was right on the money! I swear that squier's playability was every bit as good as my custom shop guitar after he did the work. I"ve referred to leveling the frets as floating them evah since.

PK