1meg pots w/bleeder caps are great!

Pete Galati · June 21st, 2006, 04:57 PM

I put this Tele together with a 250K volume pot, just to give the 250K pots a shot because so many Telecaster were built with them.

Trouble is, it lacked dynamics. And the overwound GFS bridge PU sounded too much like a humbucker. Not that I don't like humbuckers, but that's not what I was going for.

So last night, I removed the 250K volume pot, and installed a 1meg pot with a bleeder cap, because that's what my '69 Tele has.

NOW it's a Telecaster! Before, it only looked like one. Now it has a mean streak, and good dynamics. Good bite to it's sound now. Before, it might as well have had an on/off switch instead of a volume pot.

This is more of what I was looking for when I put this Tele together.

This rocking chair seems to work well for guitar pictures:

Johnny Caster · June 21st, 2006, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the advice.

Good lookin' gitar there. 8)

Pete Galati · June 21st, 2006, 08:00 PM

Thanks.

Ole Fuzzy tipped me off about my '69 having 1meg pots. All I knew is that it has a treble bleed cap, but I can't read the markings on those pots to save my life through all the solder globs.

Now the new Tele's close enough to the '69's sound that it's a suitable replacement.

Pete

tdowns · June 21st, 2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Galati

NOW it's a Telecaster!
This rocking chair seems to work well for guitar pictures:

Yes, yes, yes. 1Meg pots w bleeder caps is what I love. Of course some folks don't like high end, so it may not be for them, but I say turn the tone knob down if you want to roll off highs.

The only negative you get with a 1meg pot is that the cable capacitane will vary tone more. A longer cable will make the tuned resonance more observable.

Here is an article I wrote a while back about 1 meg pots and cables.
PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

YMMV.

Robert H. · June 22nd, 2006, 12:56 AM

Sorry Gents,
I had to take my 1 megs out---I couldn't stand the shrill, trebly sounds.
There's no accounting for taste.
Bob

crawdad · June 22nd, 2006, 12:56 AM

Hey guys--what do you mean when you say bleeder cap? Are you referring to the .001 between the in and out of the volume pot, the tone cap or something else?

I'm just a tad confused by the term. Thanks...

Pete Galati · June 22nd, 2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdowns

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Galati

NOW it's a Telecaster!
This rocking chair seems to work well for guitar pictures:

Yes, yes, yes. 1Meg pots w bleeder caps is what I love. Of course some folks don't like high end, so it may not be for them, but I say turn the tone knob down if you want to roll off highs.

You know.... I came this close to trying it with a 500K pot and bleeder cap first, but I decided I need to go with something I already knew would work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert H.

Sorry Gents,
I had to take my 1 megs out---I couldn't stand the shrill, trebly sounds.
There's no accounting for taste.
Bob

Well, it is more of a handfull, but like Terry says, you have to use the tone control if it's too much treble.

But this is the type of Tele I started out with. This one just wasn't happening for me until I installed the 1meg pot & bleeder cap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crawdad

Hey guys--what do you mean when you say bleeder cap? Are you referring to the .001 between the in and out of the volume pot, the tone cap or something else?

I'm just a tad confused by the term. Thanks...

Yep. Between the in & out of the volume pot. I used a .001uf ceramic cap, because that's what my '69 has. I guess you can use other values, but that's what I'm familiar with.

Pete

BrianF · June 22nd, 2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Yep. Between the in & out of the volume pot. I used a .001uf ceramic cap, because that's what my '69 has. I guess you can use other values, but that's what I'm familiar with.

1Meg wasn't ever a stock value though...correct? So it's not really a 'true' Tele tone...but a 'modified' Tele tone.

crawdad · June 22nd, 2006, 02:20 AM

Pete--When you use this setup, do you usually roll off some highs on the tone knob? I've never tried a 1 meg volume pot. Tried a 500k once and that seemed too bright to me, but maybe there is some magic that happens when you keep the highs in check. Is that the case in your experience?

tdowns · June 22nd, 2006, 02:28 AM

Like I said...some can't handle the high end. This is all subjective.

The beauty about the Tele is the wide range of use. A 1meg pot isn't for everybody. I'm just an old timer stuck in the Don Rich era, where a Tele cuts through a country mix.

Pete Galati · June 22nd, 2006, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianF

Quote:

Yep. Between the in & out of the volume pot. I used a .001uf ceramic cap, because that's what my '69 has. I guess you can use other values, but that's what I'm familiar with.

1Meg wasn't ever a stock value though...correct? So it's not really a 'true' Tele tone...but a 'modified' Tele tone.

1meg was stock for a while. I think the story is that Fender had a bunch of spare 1meg pots that they had to use up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crawdad

Pete--When you use this setup, do you usually roll off some highs on the tone knob? I've never tried a 1 meg volume pot. Tried a 500k once and that seemed too bright to me, but maybe there is some magic that happens when you keep the highs in check. Is that the case in your experience?

I use the tone control some. It's more of a balancing act this way. I almost never use the tone control on a humbucker guitar though. All of a sudden, the tone control becomes usefull.

Pete

RockinCarl · June 22nd, 2006, 03:26 AM

Ok, I might've missed it when I read it, but what value tone control are you using? I actually use a 1 meg tone pot, (.05 cap) and a 250k volume... incase you care.

Pete Galati · June 22nd, 2006, 03:39 AM

I've been using a 1meg tone pot all along. I'd heard that Bill Nash used that, so even when I wired it up at first with a 250K vol pot, I had a 1meg tone pot. .047uf cap on that.

I don't think I mentioned that in this thread. I think I mentioned that in the thread about the "only woodwork" etc... which is probably a couple forum pages buried by now.

Pete

lemmy99 · June 22nd, 2006, 09:27 AM

I guess using a 1meg tone pot would turn the tone control into a on/off switch, i find 250k gives a much broader sweep for tone controls.

JohnnyAtomic · June 22nd, 2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert H.

Sorry Gents,
I had to take my 1 megs out---I couldn't stand the shrill, trebly sounds.
There's no accounting for taste.
Bob

Apparently you didn't read the part about his pickups being dark and overwound.
As you wind a pickup hotter, it gets darker sounding. So pairing up a Hot pickup with 1 megs is a good way to bring the sparkle back. I hated texas specials until i heard them in a guitar w/ 1 megs, then they're not half bad. With a bright pickup often times 1 meg is too much. What i'm saying is "it all relative". It depends on your situation.

Johnny Atomic

Pete Galati · June 22nd, 2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmy99

I guess using a 1meg tone pot would turn the tone control into a on/off switch,

Not at all.

Although, I didn't like the 1meg tone pot when I had the 250K volume pot. It was too muddy then, now it's just fine.

I'll probably eventually switch the tone cap from the .047uf Mallory cap I'm using now, to a .047uf ceramic cap.

Pete

odiemann · June 22nd, 2006, 02:24 PM

Do you find that better than others, I need to know for a project? Is there any use in a median value like .33mF?

Pete Galati · June 22nd, 2006, 06:07 PM

I haven't done much experimenting with cap values at all. In that last Tele I put together with the GFS Filtertron knockoff in the bridge position, (that has two 500K pots fwiw) I found the Fender value of .047uf to be very muddy, so I switched it to the Gibson value of .022uf, and that was a lot better.

You may put your your project together, and find you need to experiment with other caps, which fortunately is sort of easy to do with a Tele. Claude was mentioning that what some people do is connect caps in with alligator clips to try them out. I haven't tried that, but I like the idea.

Pete

Robert H. · June 22nd, 2006, 09:29 PM

I read it all JohnnyAtomic. What I'm saying is that it depends on taste.

benbo · June 22nd, 2006, 10:20 PM

Thanks Pete, I think i'm going to go for that myself. I had a thread about my tone being too dark no matter how I wound the pickup in my Sammick POS. It has 250K pots, volume and tone. I think i'm going to mess around with that idea some. Thanks!!!

Pete Galati · June 23rd, 2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benbo

Thanks Pete, I think i'm going to go for that myself. I had a thread about my tone being too dark no matter how I wound the pickup in my Sammick POS. It has 250K pots, volume and tone. I think i'm going to mess around with that idea some. Thanks!!!

Good luck!

That stands for... Piece Of Samick... right?

I just pretty much did a remove & replace operation myself, but Terry Downs seems to understand guitar electronics a whole lot better than I do.

I'm going to have to read and try to understand what he wrote on his webpage about the subject: http://terrydownsmusic.com/technotes...itarcables.htm

Pete

BrianF · June 23rd, 2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

1meg was stock for a while. I think the story is that Fender had a bunch of spare 1meg pots that they had to use up.

Really? I've never heard or read that before. Is that documented anywhere? Just wondering...

Taking this a bit further...when folks say that the 1M tone reminds them of what a Tele is supposed to ound like...and quote players like Don Rich who had that tone in the early 60's ... Seems like again...this was a modded vintage Tele tone ...not stock. It's just confusing when this super treble tone is quoted as being vintage sounding when it's seems doubtful that 1M pots were stock in vintage years. Was this always a common and well-known modification for Tele's?

yegbert · June 23rd, 2006, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianF

1Meg wasn't ever a stock value though...correct? So it's not really a 'true' Tele tone...but a 'modified' Tele tone.

Page 64 of Duchossoir's The Fender Telecaster, aka the Tele bible says this about their use:

Quote:

...in 1969, the 250K pots were gradually superseded by 1 MEG units...by late 1981 the tone pot reverted to 250K...In late 1987 the American Standard came out...At the same time, the volume pot reverted to 250K instead of the 1 MEG value in use since 1969.

Pete Galati · June 23rd, 2006, 05:20 AM

I didn't realize that they used 1meg pots for that long. I always thought it was for only a few years.

You'd think they'd be easier to buy considering how long they were used. Not like I've done an exhaustive search for 1meg pot suppliers or anything, but the only place I've noticed selling them is Stewmac, which is where I got the ones I used.

Stewmac's are Alpha pots fwiw.

I don't know if the 1meg pot thing was a common mod, or if that's what Don Rich used. I was just trying to get the sound of my '69 Tele, and don't really think of it as a mod. Just part of the equation.

June 21st, 2006, 04:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	1meg pots w/bleeder caps are great! I put this Tele together with a 250K volume pot, just to give the 250K pots a shot because so many Telecaster were built with them. Trouble is, it lacked dynamics. And the overwound GFS bridge PU sounded too much like a humbucker. Not that I don't like humbuckers, but that's not what I was going for. So last night, I removed the 250K volume pot, and installed a 1meg pot with a bleeder cap, because that's what my '69 Tele has. NOW it's a Telecaster! Before, it only looked like one. Now it has a mean streak, and good dynamics. Good bite to it's sound now. Before, it might as well have had an on/off switch instead of a volume pot. This is more of what I was looking for when I put this Tele together. This rocking chair seems to work well for guitar pictures:

June 21st, 2006, 05:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Johnny Caster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Age: 22 Posts: 1,081	Thanks for the advice. Good lookin' gitar there. 8) __________________ "I'm gonna toss my telecaster through the television screen cause I don't like what's goin on!" - Radiators From Space

June 22nd, 2006, 02:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
tdowns Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wylie, TX US Posts: 2,647	Like I said...some can't handle the high end. This is all subjective. The beauty about the Tele is the wide range of use. A 1meg pot isn't for everybody. I'm just an old timer stuck in the Don Rich era, where a Tele cuts through a country mix. __________________ Best regards, Terry Downs http://terrydownsmusic.com Equine quadrupeds may be coaxed to the reference of specific gravity but may not be compelled to imbibe thereof.

June 22nd, 2006, 02:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
odiemann Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Denver Age: 41 Posts: 1,406	ceramic Do you find that better than others, I need to know for a project? Is there any use in a median value like .33mF?

June 22nd, 2006, 10:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
benbo Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hampton, Va Age: 44 Posts: 775	Thanks Pete, I think i'm going to go for that myself. I had a thread about my tone being too dark no matter how I wound the pickup in my Sammick POS. It has 250K pots, volume and tone. I think i'm going to mess around with that idea some. Thanks!!! __________________ Benny Trevillian. 90% of it is in the hands..

June 21st, 2006, 08:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	Thanks. Ole Fuzzy tipped me off about my '69 having 1meg pots. All I knew is that it has a treble bleed cap, but I can't read the markings on those pots to save my life through all the solder globs. Now the new Tele's close enough to the '69's sound that it's a suitable replacement. Pete

June 22nd, 2006, 12:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
Robert H. Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Age: 54 Posts: 785 7 Photos	Sorry Gents, I had to take my 1 megs out---I couldn't stand the shrill, trebly sounds. There's no accounting for taste. Bob

June 22nd, 2006, 12:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
crawdad Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,293	Hey guys--what do you mean when you say bleeder cap? Are you referring to the .001 between the in and out of the volume pot, the tone cap or something else? I'm just a tad confused by the term. Thanks...

June 22nd, 2006, 02:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
crawdad Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,293	Pete--When you use this setup, do you usually roll off some highs on the tone knob? I've never tried a 1 meg volume pot. Tried a 500k once and that seemed too bright to me, but maybe there is some magic that happens when you keep the highs in check. Is that the case in your experience?

June 22nd, 2006, 03:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
RockinCarl Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,477	Ok, I might've missed it when I read it, but what value tone control are you using? I actually use a 1 meg tone pot, (.05 cap) and a 250k volume... incase you care.

June 22nd, 2006, 03:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	I've been using a 1meg tone pot all along. I'd heard that Bill Nash used that, so even when I wired it up at first with a 250K vol pot, I had a 1meg tone pot. .047uf cap on that. I don't think I mentioned that in this thread. I think I mentioned that in the thread about the "only woodwork" etc... which is probably a couple forum pages buried by now. Pete

June 22nd, 2006, 09:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
lemmy99 TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 81	I guess using a 1meg tone pot would turn the tone control into a on/off switch, i find 250k gives a much broader sweep for tone controls.

June 22nd, 2006, 06:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	I haven't done much experimenting with cap values at all. In that last Tele I put together with the GFS Filtertron knockoff in the bridge position, (that has two 500K pots fwiw) I found the Fender value of .047uf to be very muddy, so I switched it to the Gibson value of .022uf, and that was a lot better. You may put your your project together, and find you need to experiment with other caps, which fortunately is sort of easy to do with a Tele. Claude was mentioning that what some people do is connect caps in with alligator clips to try them out. I haven't tried that, but I like the idea. Pete

June 22nd, 2006, 09:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
Robert H. Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Age: 54 Posts: 785 7 Photos	I read it all JohnnyAtomic. What I'm saying is that it depends on taste.