am i crazy?? i like modern tele bridges better!!!

Bluewolf · August 5th, 2003, 01:37 AM

Listen brothers and sisters,
I have a tele with the old style bridge and a tele with the modern style bridge. Believe it or not i like the modern bridge better, seems to stay in tune better, easier bending, and overall playing. The old style bridge doesnt seem to stay in tune as well and its harder to bend. I play blues, so i sm not an all out country twanger. I like the old style twang of fifties blues so thats why i play a tele. Ok, anybody agree or disagree with me about the different bridges?

chrishay · August 5th, 2003, 02:50 AM

Man, here's my chance! :) I've been lurking and occasionally posting here for a few weeks, but too chicken to ask...what am I missing by not having a brass saddle bridge?? Why do the modern bridges not stand up? I've played an American Standard for about 10 years (played pointy rock guitars before that), and just got a 96 Tele Plus (a pointy rock guitar minus the pointy parts, perhaps, but it makes my country cover band gig easier!), yet I'm fairly well-schooled in twang. I'm all of 32 yo, but grew up listening to Dad's Duane Eddy, Haggard and Buck 8-tracks, plus have always had a soft spot for Tele's as I'm a huge Stones and Petty fan. What is it about the old style bridges that sends everyone over the moon? Keep in mind, I played a couple of Ibanez's with whammy bars and razor sharp headstocks in the late 80's, so I'm probably a few cards short.... :D

Dacious · August 5th, 2003, 03:08 AM

Whatever works for you and keeps you playing a Tele is good.

Silverface · August 5th, 2003, 03:35 AM

The bridge will have zero effect on bending...also no effect on the guitar staying in tune. Those are setup issue - guitars with either bridge type can be set up properly for bending and stability.

The vintage-style saddles are generally used for their superior tone & improved sustain. Some people like brass; others prefer steel or stainless. Each gives a different tone, with brass providing a little less bite and a warmer sound. But the 3-saddle types will normally provide better sustain than 6-saddles types.

The 6-saddle bridge was developed to improve intonation, but with intonated saddles (or even the old "bent screw" method we used in the 70's) there's really no tonal (or setup) reason to use 6-saddle bridges IMO.

bruce t · August 5th, 2003, 03:53 AM

An AS bridge is pretty different from an ashtray bridge with six brass saddles. The latter is notorious for rattling, unless the six bridge pieces are perfectly level. Even then, there's not enough string tension to hold them down well. The AS is a nice stable bridge, as is the Wilkinson (that I still have on one of my Tele's). And I'll admit it, I'm a retro-grouch who loves the sound of my oldest fifties country records.

My first two "Tele's" were 1985/86 Schecter PT's, with a roller bridge and a coil splittable humbucking. Very well behaved, great sounding guitars. But they didn't sound like that classic "Tele" I wanted to hear. I could split a single coil off, didn't get it. HB sounded full, and quite Tele like, but not the accentuated bass tones and twang I wanted to hear. I finally got the first one close by installing a Barden bridge P/U on a plastic plate, and retrofitting it into the big H/B hole in the bridge. Eventually I installed a Wilkinson bridge, just because it looked a little messy.

The second Schecter, I put a vintage ashtray three-saddle bridge, and a vintage late sixties single coil Tele pickup. Way closer (to what I wanted to hear). And it had this great feature, that if I pulled the neck up way high while playing, I could stick a couple fingers under the ashtray bridge and pull the guitar body back level. :) I got used to it.

The Tele with the Wilkinson/Barden combo became my "bad room" guitar -- where the lights or power were bad enough to demand HB pickups. But it just sounds a little sterile to me now, that I've gotten used to the old-fashioned single coils, and three barrel bridges. The pickups have grit, hair and air, and the bridges have a solidity. (and I can straighten out my guitar :) ).

If I can get away with it, I'll always pick one that has a traditional SC pickup, and an ashtray three saddle. Right now, that's four out of five in my Tele collection. But the other one really sounds about 95%, and certainly stays in tune well (but, they all do). But go with what you're comfy with. And, just to reconfirm my retro-grouch status, my two favorite electric guitar sounds are a classic Tele bridge pickup, and a Charlie Christian Gibbie. One of these days, I'll retrofit a Tele with one of these. They're archetypal. But if you play blues, or distortion, you may well have a different aesthetic.

And for bending, a top-loader may well be the ultimate bridge. Shorter string length, means shorter bends. (My other guitar is a pedal steel) and keyless -- don't have to bend that extra six inches of string between the nut and the tuning key.

So don't go too crazy listening to us, we all have our preferences, and all do different things with our Tele's. Cheers, bt

undafonk · August 5th, 2003, 04:58 AM

On the one hand, three way brass bridge saddles are said to have superior tone, because of the inherent qualities of the brass, and because of higher pressure exerted on the bridge through a two string saddle - on the other hand, Keith Richards has a modern style bridge on his 5 string Teles (including Micawber), and nobody has complained about his tone being bad, on the contrary, it is often mentioned as ultimate Tele tone ...

Modern bridges have at least the obvious advantage that you can intonate each string perfectly, where on traditional style Tele bridges intonation will allways be an approximation, even with compensated saddles (think of open tunings) - on the other hand, many brilliant songs in the 50'ies were recorded on Telecasters with old style bridges, and I have never heard any complaints about "those notes not being spot on"...

I have both bridges on Teles. Regarding my verdict - the jury is still out ...

TeleGeir · August 5th, 2003, 06:42 AM

Not at all. I have all kinds now, though I haven't really done any scientific comparisons. That includes:
The Tux: Modern bridge and saddles
Albert Collins: Vintage 6 saddle ashtray
Silver Sparkle: Vintage 3 saddle brass.
Buck Owens: Vintage 3 saddle gold plated.
MIJ 62RI: Vintage 3 saddle threaded
90s Thinlines: Modern narrow slit saddles

And I have to say up until I got the Tux, my favourite was the 6 saddle vintage Albert Collins, also for twang and sustain. Leading me to believe that the pickup had more to say than the bridge. Would it have been even better with a 3 saddle? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it would mean that much.

And the Tux is real nice sounding, good sustain and sound. Is it because of the Rio Grandes, or because it is a Thinline? Don't know. Would a vintage bridge have sounded better? That I will never know, I am not going to wreck that neautiful guitar by drilling for a different brige.

Also worth noting is that none of my vintage saddles are compensated. Not really that much of an issue. Do they help? Yes I am sure they do. But that is one advantage of the modern bridges.

I am planning on experimenting a bit. One of my 90s Thinlines (the sunburst one) will probably get a set of Larry's saddles. That will let me compare two equal guitars side by side. (Except on is maple and the other rosewood.) Also, I have one or two projects in the works that will introduce even more variations to test.

Geir :)

John E · August 5th, 2003, 11:25 AM

Just kidding... it's all good to me. I've played plenty of different types of bridges - AS, G&L toploaders, Schaller 475, etc., etc., and so on and so forth... can't say a bridge has ever stood out to me as being really "bad." I personally prefer the vintage saddle because I think they look cool, and the vintage bridge because I like resting my hand on the top lip when I'm picking really fast(most people think I'm nuts when I tell them that - just my style I guess, bad or good).

Andy R · August 5th, 2003, 11:44 AM

I am admittedly a traditionalist, and I strongly prefer the three saddle bridge. The reason is the rock solid rigidity of the setup. With intonated saddles, my tele are the most in tune guitars I own, which surprised me. However, the real advantage is feel.

T-Joe · August 5th, 2003, 01:10 PM

I rest my hand on the lip of the bridge plate when playing as well. I just like the feel of those little screws on the vintage saddles poking me in my hand when I play. Yeah I guess that's a little crazy. I think it really fascilitates my palm muting technique.

Darrell · August 5th, 2003, 01:38 PM

The only modern bridge that is outright "rank" to me is the MIM standard. I did sustitute that bridge with a vintage bridge, and it helped considerably. But then after I put the vintage bridge on, played for a while, and then jumped on my AS, the sustain and tone was about the same.

I don't think the AS modern bridge is bad at all, but the modern bridges on the MIM's are kinda, how do you say, "need help".

Bob Rogers · August 5th, 2003, 02:23 PM

You're not crazy at all. While I love the three saddle bridge, there are a lot of people who use the modern bridge to get their sound. Some people like the sound of the modern bridge (to my ears, a bit more high mids, fewer highs) and of course it is easier to intonate. Actually, Fender obviously believes that a lot more people like the modern bridge or else they'd just use the vintage.

Anyway, tonal comparisons of any single component of a guitar/amp setup are always a little suspect. We are sort of saying "all other things being equal" the three barrel bridge does this. But of course, whenever we do a mod we tweek the tone controls on the guitar and amp, maybe try some different strings, maybe try a different pick attack. We hardly ever just change one thing. Singling out a bridge, or a cap, or body wood, or pickups as a key or essential ingredient of tone is probably always an exaggeration.

Scott M · August 6th, 2003, 10:48 AM

Everytime I pick one up in a music store, I embarrass myself. My right hand thinks that piece of metal sticking up is a high 'A' string. When I try hybrid picking it gets in the way of my ring finger. Maybe someday I'll learn, but for now I like a flat heavy brass bridge plate.

-Scott

Bluesbob · August 6th, 2003, 07:08 PM

I've been giving this some thought lately, and I'm going to say something now that may or may not be what everybody wants to hear. A telecaster, whether it's AS or MiM or CiJ or whatever, MUST have a single coil bridge Pup and 3-saddle bridge, else it's not a tele. There. I said it. I don't know if I should have. But I did. Now I'm going to duck.

Andy B · August 6th, 2003, 07:51 PM

Personally I like the heavy modern bridges like Stew-Mac sells best. I never cared for the old 3 saddle bridges & the stamped 6 saddle bridges weren't much better. At least you could get better intonation. This was before anyone made compensated saddles. The brass bridges seemed to work better for me anyway. I also like the American Standard style bridges. You know, whatever works!

Adam Waldron · August 6th, 2003, 08:25 PM

I have only ever owned my Am. Std. Tele.

I play a Tele with a vintage bridge and the lower lip gets in the way until I get used to it.

I would probably Gatton mod a vintage bridge if I had a guitar with one.

I can hear the difference, the vintage bridge is more classic Tele sounding.

Honestly, my guitar got the twang once I got a bridge PUP in there with a baseplate. Reckon that makes a huge difference.

Yep.

Cheers,

Adam

Chrismeyer · August 6th, 2003, 09:25 PM

I REALLY REALLY like the look and feel of the old ash try style bridge,but again,when I was playing HARD ROCK,I beat the crap out of the guitar when I strum,and those darn ash try types will have you bleeding in NO time flat!(and Scruggs

)
I like the look of the old ones,but for pure comfort and playability,the new style bridge wins.I think it allows you to pick however you need to to get your sound without the bleeding part.
Blood+guitar finish=just gross.

August 5th, 2003, 01:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Bluewolf TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 97	am i crazy?? i like modern tele bridges better!!! Listen brothers and sisters, I have a tele with the old style bridge and a tele with the modern style bridge. Believe it or not i like the modern bridge better, seems to stay in tune better, easier bending, and overall playing. The old style bridge doesnt seem to stay in tune as well and its harder to bend. I play blues, so i sm not an all out country twanger. I like the old style twang of fifties blues so thats why i play a tele. Ok, anybody agree or disagree with me about the different bridges?

August 5th, 2003, 03:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,612 35 Photos	Whatever works for you and keeps you playing a Tele is good. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

August 5th, 2003, 03:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
Silverface Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach CA Age: 56 Posts: 1,923	The bridge will have zero effect on bending...also no effect on the guitar staying in tune. Those are setup issue - guitars with either bridge type can be set up properly for bending and stability. The vintage-style saddles are generally used for their superior tone & improved sustain. Some people like brass; others prefer steel or stainless. Each gives a different tone, with brass providing a little less bite and a warmer sound. But the 3-saddle types will normally provide better sustain than 6-saddles types. The 6-saddle bridge was developed to improve intonation, but with intonated saddles (or even the old "bent screw" method we used in the 70's) there's really no tonal (or setup) reason to use 6-saddle bridges IMO. __________________ “No Chops – Great Tone” ©

August 5th, 2003, 03:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
bruce t Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 164	there's modern, then there's modern An AS bridge is pretty different from an ashtray bridge with six brass saddles. The latter is notorious for rattling, unless the six bridge pieces are perfectly level. Even then, there's not enough string tension to hold them down well. The AS is a nice stable bridge, as is the Wilkinson (that I still have on one of my Tele's). And I'll admit it, I'm a retro-grouch who loves the sound of my oldest fifties country records. My first two "Tele's" were 1985/86 Schecter PT's, with a roller bridge and a coil splittable humbucking. Very well behaved, great sounding guitars. But they didn't sound like that classic "Tele" I wanted to hear. I could split a single coil off, didn't get it. HB sounded full, and quite Tele like, but not the accentuated bass tones and twang I wanted to hear. I finally got the first one close by installing a Barden bridge P/U on a plastic plate, and retrofitting it into the big H/B hole in the bridge. Eventually I installed a Wilkinson bridge, just because it looked a little messy. The second Schecter, I put a vintage ashtray three-saddle bridge, and a vintage late sixties single coil Tele pickup. Way closer (to what I wanted to hear). And it had this great feature, that if I pulled the neck up way high while playing, I could stick a couple fingers under the ashtray bridge and pull the guitar body back level. :) I got used to it. The Tele with the Wilkinson/Barden combo became my "bad room" guitar -- where the lights or power were bad enough to demand HB pickups. But it just sounds a little sterile to me now, that I've gotten used to the old-fashioned single coils, and three barrel bridges. The pickups have grit, hair and air, and the bridges have a solidity. (and I can straighten out my guitar :) ). If I can get away with it, I'll always pick one that has a traditional SC pickup, and an ashtray three saddle. Right now, that's four out of five in my Tele collection. But the other one really sounds about 95%, and certainly stays in tune well (but, they all do). But go with what you're comfy with. And, just to reconfirm my retro-grouch status, my two favorite electric guitar sounds are a classic Tele bridge pickup, and a Charlie Christian Gibbie. One of these days, I'll retrofit a Tele with one of these. They're archetypal. But if you play blues, or distortion, you may well have a different aesthetic. And for bending, a top-loader may well be the ultimate bridge. Shorter string length, means shorter bends. (My other guitar is a pedal steel) and keyless -- don't have to bend that extra six inches of string between the nut and the tuning key. So don't go too crazy listening to us, we all have our preferences, and all do different things with our Tele's. Cheers, bt

August 5th, 2003, 04:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
undafonk Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Posts: 534 47 Photos	Two sides to every story .... On the one hand, three way brass bridge saddles are said to have superior tone, because of the inherent qualities of the brass, and because of higher pressure exerted on the bridge through a two string saddle - on the other hand, Keith Richards has a modern style bridge on his 5 string Teles (including Micawber), and nobody has complained about his tone being bad, on the contrary, it is often mentioned as ultimate Tele tone ... Modern bridges have at least the obvious advantage that you can intonate each string perfectly, where on traditional style Tele bridges intonation will allways be an approximation, even with compensated saddles (think of open tunings) - on the other hand, many brilliant songs in the 50'ies were recorded on Telecasters with old style bridges, and I have never heard any complaints about "those notes not being spot on"... I have both bridges on Teles. Regarding my verdict - the jury is still out ...

August 5th, 2003, 02:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
chrishay TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: KS Posts: 39	Man, here's my chance! :) I've been lurking and occasionally posting here for a few weeks, but too chicken to ask...what am I missing by not having a brass saddle bridge?? Why do the modern bridges not stand up? I've played an American Standard for about 10 years (played pointy rock guitars before that), and just got a 96 Tele Plus (a pointy rock guitar minus the pointy parts, perhaps, but it makes my country cover band gig easier!), yet I'm fairly well-schooled in twang. I'm all of 32 yo, but grew up listening to Dad's Duane Eddy, Haggard and Buck 8-tracks, plus have always had a soft spot for Tele's as I'm a huge Stones and Petty fan. What is it about the old style bridges that sends everyone over the moon? Keep in mind, I played a couple of Ibanez's with whammy bars and razor sharp headstocks in the late 80's, so I'm probably a few cards short.... :D

August 5th, 2003, 06:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
TeleGeir Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 1,998	Re: am i crazy?? i like modern tele bridges better!!! Not at all. I have all kinds now, though I haven't really done any scientific comparisons. That includes: The Tux: Modern bridge and saddles Albert Collins: Vintage 6 saddle ashtray Silver Sparkle: Vintage 3 saddle brass. Buck Owens: Vintage 3 saddle gold plated. MIJ 62RI: Vintage 3 saddle threaded 90s Thinlines: Modern narrow slit saddles And I have to say up until I got the Tux, my favourite was the 6 saddle vintage Albert Collins, also for twang and sustain. Leading me to believe that the pickup had more to say than the bridge. Would it have been even better with a 3 saddle? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it would mean that much. And the Tux is real nice sounding, good sustain and sound. Is it because of the Rio Grandes, or because it is a Thinline? Don't know. Would a vintage bridge have sounded better? That I will never know, I am not going to wreck that neautiful guitar by drilling for a different brige. Also worth noting is that none of my vintage saddles are compensated. Not really that much of an issue. Do they help? Yes I am sure they do. But that is one advantage of the modern bridges. I am planning on experimenting a bit. One of my 90s Thinlines (the sunburst one) will probably get a set of Larry's saddles. That will let me compare two equal guitars side by side. (Except on is maple and the other rosewood.) Also, I have one or two projects in the works that will introduce even more variations to test. Geir :) __________________ "This is a room in Paul's house."

August 5th, 2003, 11:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
John E Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,396	Oh yeah, you're totally nuts! Just kidding... it's all good to me. I've played plenty of different types of bridges - AS, G&L toploaders, Schaller 475, etc., etc., and so on and so forth... can't say a bridge has ever stood out to me as being really "bad." I personally prefer the vintage saddle because I think they look cool, and the vintage bridge because I like resting my hand on the top lip when I'm picking really fast(most people think I'm nuts when I tell them that - just my style I guess, bad or good).

August 5th, 2003, 11:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
Andy R Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nashville Posts: 652 4 Photos	I am admittedly a traditionalist, and I strongly prefer the three saddle bridge. The reason is the rock solid rigidity of the setup. With intonated saddles, my tele are the most in tune guitars I own, which surprised me. However, the real advantage is feel.

August 5th, 2003, 01:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
T-Joe Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Whidbey Island,WA Posts: 190	I'm with JohnE I rest my hand on the lip of the bridge plate when playing as well. I just like the feel of those little screws on the vintage saddles poking me in my hand when I play. Yeah I guess that's a little crazy. I think it really fascilitates my palm muting technique. __________________ Cheers from Beer Lake, T-Joe

August 5th, 2003, 01:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,485	The only modern bridge that is outright rank... The only modern bridge that is outright "rank" to me is the MIM standard. I did sustitute that bridge with a vintage bridge, and it helped considerably. But then after I put the vintage bridge on, played for a while, and then jumped on my AS, the sustain and tone was about the same. I don't think the AS modern bridge is bad at all, but the modern bridges on the MIM's are kinda, how do you say, "need help". __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

August 5th, 2003, 02:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bob Rogers Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,710	You're not crazy at all. While I love the three saddle bridge, there are a lot of people who use the modern bridge to get their sound. Some people like the sound of the modern bridge (to my ears, a bit more high mids, fewer highs) and of course it is easier to intonate. Actually, Fender obviously believes that a lot more people like the modern bridge or else they'd just use the vintage. Anyway, tonal comparisons of any single component of a guitar/amp setup are always a little suspect. We are sort of saying "all other things being equal" the three barrel bridge does this. But of course, whenever we do a mod we tweek the tone controls on the guitar and amp, maybe try some different strings, maybe try a different pick attack. We hardly ever just change one thing. Singling out a bridge, or a cap, or body wood, or pickups as a key or essential ingredient of tone is probably always an exaggeration.

August 6th, 2003, 10:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
Scott M Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vincennes, IN Posts: 116	I can't play an ash tray... Everytime I pick one up in a music store, I embarrass myself. My right hand thinks that piece of metal sticking up is a high 'A' string. When I try hybrid picking it gets in the way of my ring finger. Maybe someday I'll learn, but for now I like a flat heavy brass bridge plate. -Scott __________________ Scott M

August 6th, 2003, 07:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bluesbob Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: East Suffolk L.I. Posts: 1,049 20 Photos	$.02 worth (maybe not) I've been giving this some thought lately, and I'm going to say something now that may or may not be what everybody wants to hear. A telecaster, whether it's AS or MiM or CiJ or whatever, MUST have a single coil bridge Pup and 3-saddle bridge, else it's not a tele. There. I said it. I don't know if I should have. But I did. Now I'm going to duck. __________________ What, me worry?

August 6th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Andy B Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 289	Modern Bridges Personally I like the heavy modern bridges like Stew-Mac sells best. I never cared for the old 3 saddle bridges & the stamped 6 saddle bridges weren't much better. At least you could get better intonation. This was before anyone made compensated saddles. The brass bridges seemed to work better for me anyway. I also like the American Standard style bridges. You know, whatever works! __________________ Andy

August 6th, 2003, 08:25 PM	#16 (permalink)
Adam Waldron Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 607	I have only ever owned my Am. Std. Tele. I play a Tele with a vintage bridge and the lower lip gets in the way until I get used to it. I would probably Gatton mod a vintage bridge if I had a guitar with one. I can hear the difference, the vintage bridge is more classic Tele sounding. Honestly, my guitar got the twang once I got a bridge PUP in there with a baseplate. Reckon that makes a huge difference. Yep. Cheers, Adam

August 6th, 2003, 09:25 PM	#17 (permalink)
Chrismeyer Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Age: 34 Posts: 625	Sorry if this has been said.... I REALLY REALLY like the look and feel of the old ash try style bridge,but again,when I was playing HARD ROCK,I beat the crap out of the guitar when I strum,and those darn ash try types will have you bleeding in NO time flat!(and Scruggs ) I like the look of the old ones,but for pure comfort and playability,the new style bridge wins.I think it allows you to pick however you need to to get your sound without the bleeding part. Blood+guitar finish=just gross.