new buid advice

firefrets · May 11th, 2006, 04:27 PM

Hi.
I've just had 2 tele's made for me.First is pine body(solid),21 jumbo fret AAA b/eye maple neck/board(watco oiled) 7.25 radius,black dots etc..2nd is ADIRONDACK spruce body(solid),22 fret's,same neck wood,abalones,amber nitro,compound 9.5 to 12 with carved boardtail.Both have 10mm tuner holes,and will get black bakelite guards.Problem is..no hardware,or pickups,as i'm sooo confused.NEVER had a tele.I'm prepared to splash out,but not needlessly.Advise regarding the following would be appreciated:NEW barden rail's v Fralin/gfs/other's...(I'd like to avoid too bright a sound)..pot values for best sound..Bridges..do i really need a vintique or callaham?Best 10mm tuners.What the body tones are like?I'm ex blues,getting into (the tele player's?)Thanks very much

maestrovert · May 11th, 2006, 04:38 PM

i've often wondered about using spruce as a body wood.....

there's really no "best" when it comes to parts/hardware, only preferences.....

the interaction of various components with differing body/neck woods is quite impossible to predict, tonally speaking.....

the Callaham stuff is top notch, but that's not to say that a $7.99 bridge plate from Musician's Friend won't sound just as good or even better on your guitar....

Pete Galati · May 11th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Thos sounds like they'll be real nice guitars. I'd like to try a pine Tele some time.

I'm really enjoying the GFS repro '50s pickups that I put in my old Tele. They remind me a lot of the pickups the guitar came with.

The pots in my old Tele are 1meg pots. Those seem to make they guitar unusually bright. I'm not sure if I'd recommend them for someone who's never owned a Tele.

I'm busy collecting parts to put together a traditional Tele, and I'm planning to split the difference and use a 500K volume pot, and a 1meg tone control. I want to come close to my old Tele, but with some variations.

IMO, use 250K pots though. That seems to be pretty standard. Of course, if you're going to take the Barden route, that's pretty far from a traditional Tele pickup. I have no idea what's recomended for Bardens.

Pete

odiemann · May 11th, 2006, 05:06 PM

I do think that a bridge changes the sound a lot! I just took off a Gotoh vintage space six saddle from a one piece ash body from USA Custom guitars with Duncan p/u's. For two years I hated the sound of that guitar, it sounded "blocked." I replaced the bridge with a Glendale, and it is now my favorite. The whole instrument vibrates better and sounds acoustically nice now.

In fact, the change really did more than a p/u swap. Top dollar control plates, ????? Pickups have various flavors. Fender puts the same hardware on the bottom of the line RI's as they do CS models. Therefore I don't think tuners beyond the standard Kluson style are needed.

If you can't hear the instrument unplugged, the pickups will have a hard time hearing it plugged. Also saddles to a ton to change tone for less than pickups.

Now there is my two cents, go forth and have fun deciding and even more fun playing the guitars when finished.

firefrets · May 11th, 2006, 05:08 PM

The Adirondack spruce was apparantly used by the pre war martins,but depleted due to being used for war plane wing's.I was told by the builder that it has the best overall frequencie response,but never knowingly heard it.Pine apparantly older instruments?I've been told to use ferrous bridges for coils and NON ferrous for rail's.Remember i need 2 sets of pup's.I've already bought a notched fender compensated saddle bridge in chrome,which is ferrous.I play through peavey triumph 60,and an Alan Stratton amp(messa mk11 copy).What concerns me about the barden reviews is some say it's over harsh,while other's say perfect.Apparantly bridges can change tone much more so on a tele.I believe maple is much brighter than the rosewood i've been used to.

Ronkirn · May 11th, 2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

there's really no "best" when it comes to parts/hardware, only preferences.....

That is one of the best comments I have seen recently.

Remember, most of the guys responding in the forum are working musicians, and as such are known for grossly abusing their hearing, as such, what one may consider the best sound, may be totally inaudible to another.

The guitarists that sound the best are typically those that have practiced the longest, conversely, those with the worst sound usually find something else to do when it's practice time.

Sooo build something ya like and play like a banshee….

Ron Kirn

firefrets · May 11th, 2006, 06:47 PM

THANKS TO YOU ALL BY THE WAY.

I'm not really looking to add something to the sound,but more safeguard what energy i put in.I've been playing mainly strats and gibsons before now.My biggest hate is the overly treble,harsh,almost fizzy sound some pups throw out in combination with bright amps.I alway's sound like me,regardless of guitar,in the respect of my personal approach to it all,i guess,but i'm trying to avoid pitfalls,where the telecaster is concerned.For instance,i've heard about thing's like bridges loosing sustain through material,&thickness,and also fit.I'm not naive enough to think i could copy a gatton strat,and sound like gatton.Firstly,i play differently,and second,i play differently,lol.I'm more confused with all the contradiction from the top suppliers.Is there a barden user listening,who can tell me they're unhappy,or a vintique bridge owner,who feels they wasted money?I cant believe a $240 bridge is majoraly different to a $80,if they're the same steel.

TDPRI · May 11th, 2006, 07:10 PM

The first thing I'd do is.... fix that space bar on your computer. It's only working about 50% of the time. Maybe some contact cleaner would help it out.

Spruce is a great wood for the top of an acoustic guitar, but folks generally haven't made solid body electrics out of them. I had a pine Tele and it was very nice sounding very resonant.

As far as pickups there are just so many choices. You need to hear a bunch of 'em so you can decide what you like personally.

Joe Bardens are wonderful pickups but from what you have said about sound I would think you wouldn't like them. They're bold, bright, strong sounding pickups.

Now, that only leaves about 200 other p'ups to choose from.

It may be too simple but I'd slap a $35 Fender 3-barrel bridge on there and some stock or vintage pickups and use that as a gauge as to where to go to next -- based on your perceived likes and dislikes. As it is now, there are too many variables.

Good Luck,
Paul Green

jwells393 · May 11th, 2006, 08:50 PM

Yeah .................... fix that space bar.

Wild Rice Chris · May 11th, 2006, 09:18 PM

A good place to start for bridge and pickups is with the standard Fender 3 brass saddle bridge and Original Vintage pickups. They are kind of a standard (most tele players have at least played a 52RI) from which you can move in many other directions. Of course, they are perfect in some guitars.

Chris

firefrets · May 11th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Hi and thanks.Funny enough,the only piece of hardware i bought for the 2 tele's was a fender comp'd 3 barrel with a notch.Have to say i thought it looked quite shoddy at the sides(marks),and i think the back may need filing aroud the pickup slot.It's also ferrous,so i believe only good for coils,not blades.I was told rightly or wrongly that the only truly non magnetic bridge was the vintique..(i find that hard to believe,though).Does anyone have a link to hear the bardens demonstrated out of a band context.I've seen one for strats.Not for tele's.Told i can't go wrong with some Lindy Fralin's for one of the tele's.Problem is,there's so many different types.Do you twangsters have a popular type rail,outside the barden.Like a 2nd choice pro pickup?

Wild Rice Chris · May 11th, 2006, 09:27 PM

Glendale also makes a non-magnetic tele bridge.
http://www.glendaleguitars.com/bridgeplates.htm

I haven't heard anything good about Vintiques business practices, but have never bought anything from them. Do a search here and read all about it.

Chris
http://www.ricecustomguitars.com

GlennLewis · May 11th, 2006, 09:58 PM

"so i believe only good for coils,not blades."

To which I say.... who the heck told you that nonsense?

Here's two that I've built that beg to differ; blades on magnetic bridge plates. Nothing finer. So just go for it. Don't over analyze the situation. And I recommend 500K pots.

elgorgon · May 12th, 2006, 11:22 AM

The secret to Bardens, and all good Tele pickups, is to use your controls. Before I played Teles I thought the tone knob was for looks. Now I know it's how to get wah, jazz, LP, rythym, lead and Steel tones (on the bridge; I remove the neck pickup's tone control for a brighter tone and higher output).
Tweaking the volume knob and your playing dynamics on a well tuned amp on the brink of distortion will also yield a wide variety of tones from big spanking clean to distorted arena rock if the guitar is setup right. Finding the right value pot and taper for your style is where I'd concentrate (I like Weber's 30% taper pots).
It's hard to go wrong with all of the great pickups currently available. But if you cannot tolerate hum Barden is the only humbucker that sounds like a single coil IMHO. Nothing else sounds or feels like they do.

I wouldn't worry so much about the bridges and whatnot during intial planning. The differences between the various pieces of wood will have far more effect on the overall guitar than whether magnets stick to the bridge.
Don't be afraid to swap necks, pickups, controls, bridges between the two until you find the right setup for that guitar for your style. I can tell you from experience that using boutique materials is no guarantee the guitar will be great. But swap some stuff around and you might find the key for that guitar.
On top of all that you also need to get it setup right (and again for your specific style).

May 11th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
firefrets Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.I Posts: 476 10 Photos	new buid advice Hi. I've just had 2 tele's made for me.First is pine body(solid),21 jumbo fret AAA b/eye maple neck/board(watco oiled) 7.25 radius,black dots etc..2nd is ADIRONDACK spruce body(solid),22 fret's,same neck wood,abalones,amber nitro,compound 9.5 to 12 with carved boardtail.Both have 10mm tuner holes,and will get black bakelite guards.Problem is..no hardware,or pickups,as i'm sooo confused.NEVER had a tele.I'm prepared to splash out,but not needlessly.Advise regarding the following would be appreciated:NEW barden rail's v Fralin/gfs/other's...(I'd like to avoid too bright a sound)..pot values for best sound..Bridges..do i really need a vintique or callaham?Best 10mm tuners.What the body tones are like?I'm ex blues,getting into (the tele player's?)Thanks very much

May 11th, 2006, 04:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
maestrovert Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Branch Mi. Posts: 6,485	i've often wondered about using spruce as a body wood..... there's really no "best" when it comes to parts/hardware, only preferences..... the interaction of various components with differing body/neck woods is quite impossible to predict, tonally speaking..... the Callaham stuff is top notch, but that's not to say that a $7.99 bridge plate from Musician's Friend won't sound just as good or even better on your guitar.... __________________ Sing the Song Bro' Play on Drummer www.godonthe.net

May 11th, 2006, 05:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
odiemann Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Denver Age: 41 Posts: 1,406	bridges, exception I do think that a bridge changes the sound a lot! I just took off a Gotoh vintage space six saddle from a one piece ash body from USA Custom guitars with Duncan p/u's. For two years I hated the sound of that guitar, it sounded "blocked." I replaced the bridge with a Glendale, and it is now my favorite. The whole instrument vibrates better and sounds acoustically nice now. In fact, the change really did more than a p/u swap. Top dollar control plates, ????? Pickups have various flavors. Fender puts the same hardware on the bottom of the line RI's as they do CS models. Therefore I don't think tuners beyond the standard Kluson style are needed. If you can't hear the instrument unplugged, the pickups will have a hard time hearing it plugged. Also saddles to a ton to change tone for less than pickups. Now there is my two cents, go forth and have fun deciding and even more fun playing the guitars when finished.

May 11th, 2006, 05:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
firefrets Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.I Posts: 476 10 Photos	NEW BUILD ADVISE The Adirondack spruce was apparantly used by the pre war martins,but depleted due to being used for war plane wing's.I was told by the builder that it has the best overall frequencie response,but never knowingly heard it.Pine apparantly older instruments?I've been told to use ferrous bridges for coils and NON ferrous for rail's.Remember i need 2 sets of pup's.I've already bought a notched fender compensated saddle bridge in chrome,which is ferrous.I play through peavey triumph 60,and an Alan Stratton amp(messa mk11 copy).What concerns me about the barden reviews is some say it's over harsh,while other's say perfect.Apparantly bridges can change tone much more so on a tele.I believe maple is much brighter than the rosewood i've been used to.

May 11th, 2006, 06:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
firefrets Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.I Posts: 476 10 Photos	NEW BUILD ADVICE THANKS TO YOU ALL BY THE WAY. I'm not really looking to add something to the sound,but more safeguard what energy i put in.I've been playing mainly strats and gibsons before now.My biggest hate is the overly treble,harsh,almost fizzy sound some pups throw out in combination with bright amps.I alway's sound like me,regardless of guitar,in the respect of my personal approach to it all,i guess,but i'm trying to avoid pitfalls,where the telecaster is concerned.For instance,i've heard about thing's like bridges loosing sustain through material,&thickness,and also fit.I'm not naive enough to think i could copy a gatton strat,and sound like gatton.Firstly,i play differently,and second,i play differently,lol.I'm more confused with all the contradiction from the top suppliers.Is there a barden user listening,who can tell me they're unhappy,or a vintique bridge owner,who feels they wasted money?I cant believe a $240 bridge is majoraly different to a $80,if they're the same steel.

May 11th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	Thos sounds like they'll be real nice guitars. I'd like to try a pine Tele some time. I'm really enjoying the GFS repro '50s pickups that I put in my old Tele. They remind me a lot of the pickups the guitar came with. The pots in my old Tele are 1meg pots. Those seem to make they guitar unusually bright. I'm not sure if I'd recommend them for someone who's never owned a Tele. I'm busy collecting parts to put together a traditional Tele, and I'm planning to split the difference and use a 500K volume pot, and a 1meg tone control. I want to come close to my old Tele, but with some variations. IMO, use 250K pots though. That seems to be pretty standard. Of course, if you're going to take the Barden route, that's pretty far from a traditional Tele pickup. I have no idea what's recomended for Bardens. Pete

May 11th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
TDPRI Administrator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: TDPRILAND Posts: 5,552 36 Photos	The first thing I'd do is.... fix that space bar on your computer. It's only working about 50% of the time. Maybe some contact cleaner would help it out. Spruce is a great wood for the top of an acoustic guitar, but folks generally haven't made solid body electrics out of them. I had a pine Tele and it was very nice sounding very resonant. As far as pickups there are just so many choices. You need to hear a bunch of 'em so you can decide what you like personally. Joe Bardens are wonderful pickups but from what you have said about sound I would think you wouldn't like them. They're bold, bright, strong sounding pickups. Now, that only leaves about 200 other p'ups to choose from. It may be too simple but I'd slap a $35 Fender 3-barrel bridge on there and some stock or vintage pickups and use that as a gauge as to where to go to next -- based on your perceived likes and dislikes. As it is now, there are too many variables. Good Luck, Paul Green

May 11th, 2006, 08:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,208 101 Photos	Yeah .................... fix that space bar. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 11th, 2006, 09:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wild Rice Chris Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rice Custom Dungeon Posts: 2,861 27 Photos	A good place to start for bridge and pickups is with the standard Fender 3 brass saddle bridge and Original Vintage pickups. They are kind of a standard (most tele players have at least played a 52RI) from which you can move in many other directions. Of course, they are perfect in some guitars. Chris __________________ "The children need to learn how to build their own environment and make their own music that is inspired by their roots."--Eugene Hütz "All music turns out to be ethnic music."--Steve Reich Enjoy, and please visit my homepage.

May 11th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
firefrets Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.I Posts: 476 10 Photos	NEW BUILD ADVICE. Hi and thanks.Funny enough,the only piece of hardware i bought for the 2 tele's was a fender comp'd 3 barrel with a notch.Have to say i thought it looked quite shoddy at the sides(marks),and i think the back may need filing aroud the pickup slot.It's also ferrous,so i believe only good for coils,not blades.I was told rightly or wrongly that the only truly non magnetic bridge was the vintique..(i find that hard to believe,though).Does anyone have a link to hear the bardens demonstrated out of a band context.I've seen one for strats.Not for tele's.Told i can't go wrong with some Lindy Fralin's for one of the tele's.Problem is,there's so many different types.Do you twangsters have a popular type rail,outside the barden.Like a 2nd choice pro pickup?

May 11th, 2006, 09:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Wild Rice Chris Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rice Custom Dungeon Posts: 2,861 27 Photos	Glendale also makes a non-magnetic tele bridge. http://www.glendaleguitars.com/bridgeplates.htm I haven't heard anything good about Vintiques business practices, but have never bought anything from them. Do a search here and read all about it. Chris http://www.ricecustomguitars.com __________________ "The children need to learn how to build their own environment and make their own music that is inspired by their roots."--Eugene Hütz "All music turns out to be ethnic music."--Steve Reich Enjoy, and please visit my homepage.

May 11th, 2006, 09:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
GlennLewis Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 541 4 Photos	Well.... beg to differ "so i believe only good for coils,not blades." To which I say.... who the heck told you that nonsense? Here's two that I've built that beg to differ; blades on magnetic bridge plates. Nothing finer. So just go for it. Don't over analyze the situation. And I recommend 500K pots.

May 12th, 2006, 11:22 AM	#14 (permalink)
elgorgon Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 197	Re: NEW BUILD ADVICE. The secret to Bardens, and all good Tele pickups, is to use your controls. Before I played Teles I thought the tone knob was for looks. Now I know it's how to get wah, jazz, LP, rythym, lead and Steel tones (on the bridge; I remove the neck pickup's tone control for a brighter tone and higher output). Tweaking the volume knob and your playing dynamics on a well tuned amp on the brink of distortion will also yield a wide variety of tones from big spanking clean to distorted arena rock if the guitar is setup right. Finding the right value pot and taper for your style is where I'd concentrate (I like Weber's 30% taper pots). It's hard to go wrong with all of the great pickups currently available. But if you cannot tolerate hum Barden is the only humbucker that sounds like a single coil IMHO. Nothing else sounds or *feels* like they do. I wouldn't worry so much about the bridges and whatnot during intial planning. The differences between the various pieces of wood will have far more effect on the overall guitar than whether magnets stick to the bridge. Don't be afraid to swap necks, pickups, controls, bridges between the two until you find the right setup for that guitar for your style. I can tell you from experience that using boutique materials is no guarantee the guitar will be great. But swap some stuff around and you might find the key for *that* guitar. On top of all that you also need to get it setup right (and again for your specific style).