Where are all the 12-string telecasters?

Johnny Caster · May 4th, 2006, 04:47 AM

I think the telecaster would be a good canidate for a six string upgrade and are there any examples of these?

Scott S · May 4th, 2006, 04:49 AM

They're in Fender Frontline. People must either be broke enough to buy the Dano 12-string, or have saved up enough to buy a Rick.

Pete Galati · May 4th, 2006, 05:59 AM

Bill Nash has built a few 12 string Telecasters.

He's showing one that has already been sold on his For Sale page: http://www.nashguitars.com/for_sale_now/index.html

I'm not crazy about the headstock, but I'm not sure what else you could do.

It seems to me that you might be able use an ashtray bridge by loading 6 of the strings "string through" style, and 6 of them toploader style.

Pete

Dave Yeats · May 4th, 2006, 08:02 AM

Here's a great post on the subject of 12-string partscasters:

http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t=35522

I've written this before, but here it is again:

The custom shop did do a run of the "Telecaster XII" from 1995 to 1998. You can sometimes find them on eBay or other guitar retailers for something like $1500 to $2000. (more or less) The specs vary. Some necks are based on the '52 reissue necks (heel truss rod adj, 21 frets), and some necks are based on the American Standard series (headstock truss rod adj, 22 frets). They have a Mustang-style bridge and all 12 strings string through the body.

Here's some pictures of my Tele 12. It's kind of a cross between the "roll your own" thing and the Custom Shop. I bought the neck and bridge and misc. hardware from Fred Stuart (designer of the Tele 12 when he worked for Fender). The neck was once on his personal guitar. His Tele 12 now has the prototype neck for the next version of the model that never went into production. Only the body on mine is non-custom shop.

http://www.daveyeats.com/Tele12/index.htm

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

It seems to me that you might be able use an ashtray bridge by loading 6 of the strings "string through" style, and 6 of them toploader style.

I had hoped to used an ashtray bridge when I did my Ferden 12 string conversion but I quickly learned that the Gotoh saddles needed more room than you have on an ashtray bridge.

.........................................

rhomco · May 4th, 2006, 09:56 AM

I have built (assembled?) a couple of these recently and love them. Problem is keeping one after your buddies play it! Rhumor has it that my first one with the G&L soapbars is going up on ebay soon. I really like the concept of Gotoh 12 saddles in the traditional Tele bridge but this poses some serious problems aligning the Gotoh saddles. Go back and look at the photos of Jwells guitar and note the upward shift of the saddles in the ashtray. This is mandated due to the 6 string thru holes in the ashtray and the geometry of the Gotoh saddles. The Gotoh saddle REQUIRES the major string enter the saddle from the bottom. It is more cosmetic than anything else but serious to a Tele lover. I have been in discussion with Glendale to have some blank baseplates made but the $99.00 price for an undrilled and unplated baseplate is cost prohibitive for me. Add the $40.00 Gotoh you have to cannibalize and the plating... well you see the issue. If anyone knows where I gan get some plated baseplate blanks made that have only the pickup cutout done I would be your best friend forever!
Looks like for the time being I will have to settle for either the offset or just use the Gotoh in the Tele Custom style guitars. I am finishing up one now and will post some photos soon.
Rob

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

I really like the concept of Gotoh 12 saddles in the traditional Tele bridge but this poses some serious problems aligning the Gotoh saddles. Go back and look at the photos of Jwells guitar and note the upward shift of the saddles in the ashtray. This is mandated due to the 6 string thru holes in the ashtray and the geometry of the Gotoh saddles.

I guess I don't understand what you're saying here.

rhomco · May 4th, 2006, 01:43 PM

Sorry jwells, I meant to say baseplate not ashtray. Let me say my words were not intended in any way to diss your guitar or workmanship. I greatly admire your work, your advice and craftyness. The problem I was discussing deals with the offset of the Gotoh saddle on a standard tele string thru base. If the string thru holes are already in the guitar and the baseplate it is impossible to shift the Gotoh saddles to center the two strings over the string thru holes as intended by Leo Fender. This is because the Gotoh saddle must load the big string centered over the string thru hole. This shifts the resonate string to the left (looking into the bridge). Therefore the saddle set is shifted the with of about 3/32 inch to the left. This is visible in the view of your bridgeplate (and mine) as a wider edge distance on the right side when compared to the left side. Again, still quite playable but visually offset. I hope this explaination is understandable.
Respectfully,
Rob

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM

Ok ............ I understand what you're saying now. You're right, the big E strings do appear a little closer to the edge of the bridge plate. However........... looking at the two outer strings around the 22 fret, there is no perceptable difference in their distance from the edge of the fretboard........... Can't really explain that.

Dave Yeats · May 4th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhomco

Sorry jwells, I meant to say baseplate not ashtray. Let me say my words were not intended in any way to diss your guitar or workmanship. I greatly admire your work, your advice and craftyness. The problem I was discussing deals with the offset of the Gotoh saddle on a standard tele string thru base. If the string thru holes are already in the guitar and the baseplate it is impossible to shift the Gotoh saddles to center the two strings over the string thru holes as intended by Leo Fender. This is because the Gotoh saddle must load the big string centered over the string thru hole. This shifts the resonate string to the left (looking into the bridge). Therefore the saddle set is shifted the with of about 3/32 inch to the left. This is visible in the view of your bridgeplate (and mine) as a wider edge distance on the right side when compared to the left side. Again, still quite playable but visually offset. I hope this explaination is understandable.
Respectfully,
Rob

Here's where I need a picture. It looks to me that Jack's (jwells') 12-string has the saddles aligned in the center of the bridge plate and aligned perfectly over the pickup pole pieces. Are you saying that the string-through holes are in the wrong place on the Gotoh bridge plate (not aligned with a "typical" Fender tele body)? It sounds like some useful information you're laying out here, and I just want to understand.

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Here's the Gotoh bridge plate that I took the saddles from. The string through holes are definitely offset to the right. They're also staggered in the other direction. I don't see a problem with non-staggered holes. If you get a chance to look at one of the newer Strat 12s, look at the back. The ferrules are staggered to match the bridge plate.

..........................................

Pete Galati · May 4th, 2006, 03:09 PM

I like your bridge arrangement better than what Bill Nash did, even if you weren't able to use an ashtray style bridge. That's a pretty good compromize IMO.

Pete

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 03:40 PM

Thanks Pete.

I suppose you could drill holes a little to the right of the holes in a MIM bridge plate and make a special body with the holes shifted to the right or drill holes from the ferrule recess at an angle to match up with these new holes. Seems like a lot of trouble for minimal gain.

I just made the following measurements on my Tele 12.

Big E saddle to edge of bridge plate: 0.238 in
Little E saddle to edge of bridge plate: 0.350.
Width of MIM bridge plate: 3.150 in.
Width of all saddles: 2.542 in.

If the saddles were perfectly centered on the bridge plate the two outer saddles would be 0.304 in. from the edge.

............... probably more than you wanted to know.

rhomco · May 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM

Dave said: " Are you saying that the string-through holes are in the wrong place on the Gotoh bridge plate (not aligned with a "typical" Fender tele body)? It sounds like some useful information you're laying out here, and I just want to understand."
Well actually.... the Gotoh is fine IF you are starting from scratch with no string thru holes in the guitar already and using it as intended (hardtail style). The shift occurs only when you are "locked-in" with pre drilled holes in the guitar AND the baseplate/ashtray. Remember, the string centerline on a 6 string Tele is the c/l of the saddle. The centerline on a 12 string is that imaginary line BETWEEN the strings. When I mounted my first Gotoh on a pre drilled Fender body I just put a screw thru the center hole of the bridge and thought I was perfectly centered. However, I quickly figured out I had to shift the whole bridge assembly to the right and string exit holes on the body (under the bridge plate) to the right and toward the Gotoh staggared holes. All done it loaded the strings fine and centered up on the fretboard/pickup poles just fine. Humm... the same could be done with the standard Tele ashtray by slotting the string thru holes in the base. LIGHTBULB MOMENT! Why did I not think of this before? I have been shifting the saddle screw holes in the ashtray when I could have slotted the string entry holes in the ashtray? I gotta go play wit this some more and post some photos!!!:)
Rob

Dave Yeats · May 4th, 2006, 04:16 PM

Just to make it more complicated...

Here are some close-ups of my Telecaster 12 bridge. I sourced this from Fred Stuart of the Fender Custom Shop. Basically, this bridge is spare parts from the custom shop's run of Tele 12s.

Mustang-style round saddles with different diameters. 12 individual intonation screws, the saddles ride on a height-adjustable plate with adjustments at either end:

Note the strings all feed through the body:

On the back, 12-string "ferrule plate" for string-through:

Johnny Caster · May 4th, 2006, 05:19 PM

Wouldn't it just be easier to use threaded saddles and a toploader? Then you could ashtray it too.

Dave Yeats · May 4th, 2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Caster

Wouldn't it just be easier to use threaded saddles and a toploader? Then you could ashtray it too.

The intonation on a setup like that would be pretty bad for the octave strings. I doubt you could leave the first three frets without some pretty unpleasant-sounding stuff, but I'm picky like that.

jwells393 · May 4th, 2006, 06:49 PM

You know .............. I'm suprised that Fender Japan hasn't come out with a Telecaster 12 string. After all, they are the ones who made the Stratocaster 12 string. Even though everyone in this forum probably favors the Telecaster over the Stratocaster, that may not be true for the rest of the world. When I walk into my local music store (Grandma's in Albuquerque). I see a row and a half of Stratocasters. Telecasters fill that other half row.

Cindi 500 · May 5th, 2006, 11:00 AM

Neato stuff! Here's what I'd love to see in my quiver one of these days:

I'd take a B5-conversion plate like that and put on a multi threaded Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge back to a modified Jag/Jazz tremolo tailpiece w/six xtra holes, and add a GFS Tele Lipstick & Esquire guard. Then I can pretend to be like Echo & the Bunnymen's Will Seargent when he swerved and swayed his Vox Teardrop-12 the gorgeous jangle of The Killing Moon. OOooooooooooo!

Sustain going to pot? Would the strings jump the Jag bridge saddles? Probably....

I'd still do it in a heartbeat *^_^* And just might do it soon.

May 4th, 2006, 04:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Johnny Caster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Age: 22 Posts: 1,081	Where are all the 12-string telecasters? I think the telecaster would be a good canidate for a six string upgrade and are there any examples of these? __________________ "I'm gonna toss my telecaster through the television screen cause I don't like what's goin on!" - Radiators From Space

May 4th, 2006, 09:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
rhomco Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Crowley, Texas Posts: 748	Tele 12 Stringers I have built (assembled?) a couple of these recently and love them. Problem is keeping one after your buddies play it! Rhumor has it that my first one with the G&L soapbars is going up on ebay soon. I really like the concept of Gotoh 12 saddles in the traditional Tele bridge but this poses some serious problems aligning the Gotoh saddles. Go back and look at the photos of Jwells guitar and note the upward shift of the saddles in the ashtray. This is mandated due to the 6 string thru holes in the ashtray and the geometry of the Gotoh saddles. The Gotoh saddle REQUIRES the major string enter the saddle from the bottom. It is more cosmetic than anything else but serious to a Tele lover. I have been in discussion with Glendale to have some blank baseplates made but the $99.00 price for an undrilled and unplated baseplate is cost prohibitive for me. Add the $40.00 Gotoh you have to cannibalize and the plating... well you see the issue. If anyone knows where I gan get some plated baseplate blanks made that have only the pickup cutout done I would be your best friend forever! Looks like for the time being I will have to settle for either the offset or just use the Gotoh in the Tele Custom style guitars. I am finishing up one now and will post some photos soon. Rob

May 4th, 2006, 01:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
rhomco Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Crowley, Texas Posts: 748	Sorry jwells, I mean to say... Sorry jwells, I meant to say baseplate not ashtray. Let me say my words were not intended in any way to diss your guitar or workmanship. I greatly admire your work, your advice and craftyness. The problem I was discussing deals with the offset of the Gotoh saddle on a standard tele string thru base. If the string thru holes are already in the guitar and the baseplate it is impossible to shift the Gotoh saddles to center the two strings over the string thru holes as intended by Leo Fender. This is because the Gotoh saddle must load the big string centered over the string thru hole. This shifts the resonate string to the left (looking into the bridge). Therefore the saddle set is shifted the with of about 3/32 inch to the left. This is visible in the view of your bridgeplate (and mine) as a wider edge distance on the right side when compared to the left side. Again, still quite playable but visually offset. I hope this explaination is understandable. Respectfully, Rob

May 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,210 101 Photos	Ok ............ I understand what you're saying now. You're right, the big E strings do appear a little closer to the edge of the bridge plate. However........... looking at the two outer strings around the 22 fret, there is no perceptable difference in their distance from the edge of the fretboard........... Can't really explain that. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 4th, 2006, 03:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,210 101 Photos	Here's the Gotoh bridge plate that I took the saddles from. The string through holes are definitely offset to the right. They're also staggered in the other direction. I don't see a problem with non-staggered holes. If you get a chance to look at one of the newer Strat 12s, look at the back. The ferrules are staggered to match the bridge plate. .......................................... __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 4th, 2006, 04:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,689	They're in Fender Frontline. People must either be broke enough to buy the Dano 12-string, or have saved up enough to buy a Rick.

May 4th, 2006, 05:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	Bill Nash has built a few 12 string Telecasters. He's showing one that has already been sold on his For Sale page: http://www.nashguitars.com/for_sale_now/index.html I'm not crazy about the headstock, but I'm not sure what else you could do. It seems to me that you might be able use an ashtray bridge by loading 6 of the strings "string through" style, and 6 of them toploader style. Pete

May 4th, 2006, 08:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dave Yeats Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 764 50 Photos	Here's a great post on the subject of 12-string partscasters: http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t=35522 I've written this before, but here it is again: The custom shop did do a run of the "Telecaster XII" from 1995 to 1998. You can sometimes find them on eBay or other guitar retailers for something like $1500 to $2000. (more or less) The specs vary. Some necks are based on the '52 reissue necks (heel truss rod adj, 21 frets), and some necks are based on the American Standard series (headstock truss rod adj, 22 frets). They have a Mustang-style bridge and all 12 strings string through the body. Here's some pictures of my Tele 12. It's kind of a cross between the "roll your own" thing and the Custom Shop. I bought the neck and bridge and misc. hardware from Fred Stuart (designer of the Tele 12 when he worked for Fender). The neck was once on his personal guitar. His Tele 12 now has the prototype neck for the next version of the model that never went into production. Only the body on mine is non-custom shop. http://www.daveyeats.com/Tele12/index.htm

May 4th, 2006, 03:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
Pete Galati R.I.P. Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,104 2 Photos	I like your bridge arrangement better than what Bill Nash did, even if you weren't able to use an ashtray style bridge. That's a pretty good compromize IMO. Pete

May 4th, 2006, 03:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,210 101 Photos	Thanks Pete. I suppose you could drill holes a little to the right of the holes in a MIM bridge plate and make a special body with the holes shifted to the right or drill holes from the ferrule recess at an angle to match up with these new holes. Seems like a lot of trouble for minimal gain. I just made the following measurements on my Tele 12. Big E saddle to edge of bridge plate: 0.238 in Little E saddle to edge of bridge plate: 0.350. Width of MIM bridge plate: 3.150 in. Width of all saddles: 2.542 in. If the saddles were perfectly centered on the bridge plate the two outer saddles would be 0.304 in. from the edge. ............... probably more than you wanted to know. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
rhomco Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Crowley, Texas Posts: 748	Re: Sorry jwells, I mean to say... Dave said: " Are you saying that the string-through holes are in the wrong place on the Gotoh bridge plate (not aligned with a "typical" Fender tele body)? It sounds like some useful information you're laying out here, and I just want to understand." Well actually.... the Gotoh is fine IF you are starting from scratch with no string thru holes in the guitar already and using it as intended (hardtail style). The shift occurs only when you are "locked-in" with pre drilled holes in the guitar AND the baseplate/ashtray. Remember, the string centerline on a 6 string Tele is the c/l of the saddle. The centerline on a 12 string is that imaginary line BETWEEN the strings. When I mounted my first Gotoh on a pre drilled Fender body I just put a screw thru the center hole of the bridge and thought I was perfectly centered. However, I quickly figured out I had to shift the whole bridge assembly to the right and string exit holes on the body (under the bridge plate) to the right and toward the Gotoh staggared holes. All done it loaded the strings fine and centered up on the fretboard/pickup poles just fine. Humm... the same could be done with the standard Tele ashtray by slotting the string thru holes in the base. LIGHTBULB MOMENT! Why did I not think of this before? I have been shifting the saddle screw holes in the ashtray when I could have slotted the string entry holes in the ashtray? I gotta go play wit this some more and post some photos!!!:) Rob

May 4th, 2006, 04:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dave Yeats Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 764 50 Photos	Just to make it more complicated... Here are some close-ups of my Telecaster 12 bridge. I sourced this from Fred Stuart of the Fender Custom Shop. Basically, this bridge is spare parts from the custom shop's run of Tele 12s. Mustang-style round saddles with different diameters. 12 individual intonation screws, the saddles ride on a height-adjustable plate with adjustments at either end: Note the strings all feed through the body: On the back, 12-string "ferrule plate" for string-through:

May 4th, 2006, 05:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
Johnny Caster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Age: 22 Posts: 1,081	Wouldn't it just be easier to use threaded saddles and a toploader? Then you could ashtray it too. __________________ "I'm gonna toss my telecaster through the television screen cause I don't like what's goin on!" - Radiators From Space

May 4th, 2006, 06:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,210 101 Photos	You know .............. I'm suprised that Fender Japan hasn't come out with a Telecaster 12 string. After all, they are the ones who made the Stratocaster 12 string. Even though everyone in this forum probably favors the Telecaster over the Stratocaster, that may not be true for the rest of the world. When I walk into my local music store (Grandma's in Albuquerque). I see a row and a half of Stratocasters. Telecasters fill that other half row. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 5th, 2006, 11:00 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cindi 500 Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seoul Posts: 137	Neato stuff! Here's what I'd love to see in my quiver one of these days: I'd take a B5-conversion plate like that and put on a multi threaded Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge back to a modified Jag/Jazz tremolo tailpiece w/six xtra holes, and add a GFS Tele Lipstick & Esquire guard. Then I can pretend to be like Echo & the Bunnymen's Will Seargent when he swerved and swayed his Vox Teardrop-12 the gorgeous jangle of The Killing Moon. OOooooooooooo! Sustain going to pot? Would the strings jump the Jag bridge saddles? Probably.... I'd still do it in a heartbeat ^_^ And just might do it soon.