Problems playing my new MIM 50's reissue tele

PdL · April 9th, 2006, 01:43 AM

I've got a MIM 50's reissue tele that seems to be set up properly, but is giving me some problems. The action is probablly a little higher that most, but that's the way I like it. And this tele stays in tune w/o any probs. However, it is nearly impossible to bend the the strings when playing down near the nut. For example, I can do a full step bend on the G string @ at the 4th fret (and higher up the neck,) but its a real struggle to do even a 1/2 step bend on the same string at the 2nd fret.

For strings I am using 10's, which I have always used w/o issue on my other guitars. And as I mentioned, there is no problem bending any of the strings as I go up the fretboard. This tele is my first guitar with vintage frets, and I'm wondering if this trouble bending near the nut is common with these small frets? I have heard that its tougher to do bends on the vintage frets as compared to the medium jumbos, but it seem odd that its so difficult to bend the high strings near the nut on this tele. Any tips to remedy this situation? Lower the action a lot? Install a higher nut? I love the feel of the neck, but if I can't bend the G string @ the 2nd fret - what's the point of having a tele? :-)

TIA

jwells393 · April 9th, 2006, 02:24 AM

Build up the strength in your left hand. How often do you need to bend the G string at the second fret anyway?

With vintage frets, it seems the strings are going to be closer to the fretboard. Therefore, you not going to be able to get as low on the string as you would with a higher string. As you move up the fretboard, the string rises and you finger is lower with respect to the string.

crawdad · April 9th, 2006, 02:58 AM

Interesting post and reply. jwells393 is right. If you want to keep the vintage frets, you might have to consider going down to 9's to get the same feel, or a hybrid 46-9 guage.

I just wrestled with this issue all night. Like you, I use 10's on everything, but tonight I played a Tele with vintage frets strung with 10's and I felt like I was playing a Martin. I forgot how hard it is to bend with the small frets. 4 hours of gigging wore my hand out! Sounded great, but execution was tough going at times.

My solution for my guitar will be to refret with bigger wire. Its either that or back down the string guage.

Ever notice the fingerboard wear on those old maple neck Teles? Its fingernails digging into the finish because the frets are so low.

AJ Love · April 9th, 2006, 03:32 AM

I've though ALOT about this topic in recent months. I love my '52 RI w/vintage frets... many of the very greatest players and string benders from Jimi Hendrix to Albert Collins to Roy Nichols and on played guitars with Vintage frets

crawdad · April 9th, 2006, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Love

I've though ALOT about this topic in recent months. I love my '52 RI w/vintage frets... many of the very greatest players and string benders from Jimi Hendrix to Albert Collins to Roy Nichols and on played guitars with Vintage frets

Makes you realize how hard they were working too! And, there is something about the tone with the vintage wire thats real cool. I'm leaning toward being able to play more of what I am capable of and that is gonna mean bigger frets. Everybody's different and YMMV. Maybe you'd have to play some of my Tele's to see what I mean. Still, glad you like your 52 RI!

Mark Davis · April 9th, 2006, 04:54 AM

What I have found is certain guitars just play stiff where others dont. 1st thing to check is the nut. If its cut too high the strings down around the nut area are gonna feel like cheese cutters. Finding a stock Fender with a correct cut nut is almost impossible they are never cut right from the factory.

Your neck might also have too much relief which will cause the strings to be stiffer.

On my 50's Classic Esquire I can fret the G string at the 2nd fret play an A and easily bend it to a B. 10-46

Bones · April 9th, 2006, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Love

I've though ALOT about this topic in recent months. I love my '52 RI w/vintage frets... many of the very greatest players and string benders from Jimi Hendrix to Albert Collins to Roy Nichols and on played guitars with Vintage frets

Actually Albert's was refretted with 6100 or similar size frets according to Dan Erlewine. As a matter of fact his guitars were re-fretted and refinished many times ovr the years.

As far as bending down near the nut, I use 11's and really like the way it fights back, but than again I can palm a basketball with room to spare.

If you want to play Muddy Waters, you got to bend that G on the 2nd fret

TG · April 9th, 2006, 08:44 AM

I'd bet money that you badly need to get the nut sorted out. Either by having the one on it now redone or else a new TUSQ pre-slotted one fitted properly. Have you got a capo? If you capo the first fret and it suddenly feels alot better then the nut is way too high.
It would well be worth your time and money to find someone who knows how to setup guitars and pay them.
You can learn to do it yourself (I have) but you'd probably want to 'practice' on something other than your precious 50s Classic tele.

Get the nut sorted and you'll think you've got a different...and far more expensive... guitar.

Aen · June 28th, 2006, 02:36 AM

or go back in time and start playing 13's at age 15. then by now you'll be all set!

PK · June 28th, 2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwells393

Build up the strength in your left hand. How often do you need to bend the G string at the second fret anyway?

The 2nd fret "G" bend is one of my fav's

I work that bend as often as I can. I agree, check the nut... and maybe lower the action a tad.

PK

eddiewagner · June 28th, 2006, 04:46 AM

i would like to suggest 9-46 strings. they work wonderful on my 52 ri. good bass, highly bendable g-e. would be a quick inexpensive experiment. if that dont help, get the nut setup by a real good tech who is into teles. eddie

Scotland · June 28th, 2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG

I'd bet money that you badly need to get the nut sorted out. Either by having the one on it now redone or else a new TUSQ pre-slotted one fitted properly. Have you got a capo? If you capo the first fret and it suddenly feels alot better then the nut is way too high.
It would well be worth your time and money to find someone who knows how to setup guitars and pay them.
You can learn to do it yourself (I have) but you'd probably want to 'practice' on something other than your precious 50s Classic tele.

Get the nut sorted and you'll think you've got a different...and far more expensive... guitar.

Totally agree. My 50's bends without any problem and I have the same string gauge as you.

maestrovert · June 28th, 2006, 10:40 AM

+1 it's the nut....

Tom S · June 28th, 2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwells393

Build up the strength in your left hand. How often do you need to bend the G string at the second fret anyway?

Well, he won't be playing voodoo child, that's for sure!

Mark Davis · June 28th, 2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom S

Well, he won't be playing voodoo child, that's for sure!

hahahahahaha

Chimp #6 · June 29th, 2006, 09:23 AM

+1 hybrid 46-9 guage

moonshiner · June 29th, 2006, 10:34 AM

Have an experienced tech do some tweeking.. I do full step bends on the 2nd fret G all the time on my MIMC50... I agree that it's one of my favorite bends...

All guitars are different.. I have some that it's pretty easy to do and others where it's a huge challenge.. and I play with 10-52s... The more you practice, they stronger your hand will get...

Don Miller · June 29th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Yeah, the A-B (2nd fret to 4)bend on the third string is a pretty common move..the ultimate fake pedal steel lick...Nashville West, Peaceful Easy Feeling, Honky Tonk Women all use that bend...and theres a jillion more..

Try a slightly lighter G string...instead of a 16, or what ever you get in a 10-52 set, put a 15 or 14 on there,,,Clarence White used a 12 for the G..that takes alot of getting used to but sure makes for an easy bend...

John E · June 29th, 2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Davis

What I have found is certain guitars just play stiff where others dont. 1st thing to check is the nut. If its cut too high the strings down around the nut area are gonna feel like cheese cutters. Finding a stock Fender with a correct cut nut is almost impossible they are never cut right from the factory.

Your neck might also have too much relief which will cause the strings to be stiffer.

On my 50's Classic Esquire I can fret the G string at the 2nd fret play an A and easily bend it to a B. 10-46

Mark knows... Mark knows! Mark gave me probably the best piece of advice on gear I had ever gotten when I joined this site 4 years or so ago. (Actually 2 pieces - he told me to keep the stock neck pickup in the guitar, which I didn't listen to, it's agreat pickup) The 50's classic with vintage frets, and don't forget... the radius is 7.25. That is a VERY round fretboard. This combination will be tough even with the right setup, but without OOPHA.

I had a 50's classic set up with 10's, and it was like a wrestling match every time I played it... and I play 70% acoustic so my fingers are plenty strong. I could actually bend on my acoustics set up with 12's and 13's easier than my 50's classic.

I actually payed a ton for a Gold set up when I bought it, but it wasn't right(and that's all I have to say about that... we won't go there). I loved the look and sound of the guitar but decided to sell it because of the playability. I took it to fellow TDPRI'er Rob DiStefano to set it up for the buyer... turns out the nut was setup terribly, and basically shot. He replaced the nut and set it up... AND IT WAS LIKE A DIFFERENT GUITAR. If I had taken it to Rob to begin with, I would still own that guitar.

That being said, I still prefer a flatter radius and wider neck with larger frets from the get go. So typically, I do the partscaster thing. Just what I'm used to I guess.

Mik · June 29th, 2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Miller

Yeah, the A-B (2nd fret to 4)bend on the third string is a pretty common move..the ultimate fake pedal steel lick...Nashville West, Peaceful Easy Feeling, Honky Tonk Women all use that bend...and theres a jillion more..

Try a slightly lighter G string...instead of a 16, or what ever you get in a 10-52 set, put a 15 or 14 on there,,,Clarence White used a 12 for the G..that takes alot of getting used to but sure makes for an easy bend...

Yeah, A-B is an essential, Big Fun blues and country move. I can't pick up any guitar without doin that 2nd fret bend, as "corny" as it is it's still

to me.

Maybe, a bend at the 2nd fret is better facilitated by lower action than bends farther up the neck?

Everyone has chimed in on this thread with friendly helpful advice, ON TOPIC, not a speck of snobbery and I find that very refreshing.

Mik

brianwenz · June 29th, 2006, 12:35 PM

Hello Hello--
Yeah.... nut, string guage, frets, amount of "bow" in the neck, all of those will add up to the playability. One important thing is how high the neck sits in the neck pocket. This will be reflected in how high the bridge needs to be adjusted and , thus, how stiff the action will be. High pocket = higher bridge saddles etc. I've seen quite a few of the vintage re-issues that sit pretty high in the neck pocket from the factory and the only solution is to lower the pocket by sanding or routing..... sometimes that's no fun.
Brian.

April 9th, 2006, 01:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
PdL TDPRI Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 33	Problems playing my new MIM 50's reissue tele I've got a MIM 50's reissue tele that seems to be set up properly, but is giving me some problems. The action is probablly a little higher that most, but that's the way I like it. And this tele stays in tune w/o any probs. However, it is nearly impossible to bend the the strings when playing down near the nut. For example, I can do a full step bend on the G string @ at the 4th fret (and higher up the neck,) but its a real struggle to do even a 1/2 step bend on the same string at the 2nd fret. For strings I am using 10's, which I have always used w/o issue on my other guitars. And as I mentioned, there is no problem bending any of the strings as I go up the fretboard. This tele is my first guitar with vintage frets, and I'm wondering if this trouble bending near the nut is common with these small frets? I have heard that its tougher to do bends on the vintage frets as compared to the medium jumbos, but it seem odd that its so difficult to bend the high strings near the nut on this tele. Any tips to remedy this situation? Lower the action a lot? Install a higher nut? I love the feel of the neck, but if I can't bend the G string @ the 2nd fret - what's the point of having a tele? :-) TIA

April 9th, 2006, 02:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 12,207 101 Photos	Build up the strength in your left hand. How often do you need to bend the G string at the second fret anyway? With vintage frets, it seems the strings are going to be closer to the fretboard. Therefore, you not going to be able to get as low on the string as you would with a higher string. As you move up the fretboard, the string rises and you finger is lower with respect to the string. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

April 9th, 2006, 04:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mark Davis Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bakersfield Ca. Age: 58 Posts: 12,741	What I have found is certain guitars just play stiff where others dont. 1st thing to check is the nut. If its cut too high the strings down around the nut area are gonna feel like cheese cutters. Finding a stock Fender with a correct cut nut is almost impossible they are never cut right from the factory. Your neck might also have too much relief which will cause the strings to be stiffer. On my 50's Classic Esquire I can fret the G string at the 2nd fret play an A and easily bend it to a B. 10-46 __________________ I'm so blind my seeing eye dog needs glasses.

June 28th, 2006, 02:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Aen Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 942	or go back in time and start playing 13's at age 15. then by now you'll be all set! __________________ Alt-country and psych-rock-tronica! Hey, be happy you can choose one genre for yourself! http://www.myspace.com/aenpage

June 28th, 2006, 04:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
eddiewagner Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ROCK!linghausen/germany Age: 49 Posts: 3,963 27 Photos	i would like to suggest 9-46 strings. they work wonderful on my 52 ri. good bass, highly bendable g-e. would be a quick inexpensive experiment. if that dont help, get the nut setup by a real good tech who is into teles. eddie __________________ My Drum/Guitar-Duo: www.myspace.com/captaintwangandhisrhythmcat

April 9th, 2006, 02:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
crawdad Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,293	Interesting post and reply. jwells393 is right. If you want to keep the vintage frets, you might have to consider going down to 9's to get the same feel, or a hybrid 46-9 guage. I just wrestled with this issue all night. Like you, I use 10's on everything, but tonight I played a Tele with vintage frets strung with 10's and I felt like I was playing a Martin. I forgot how hard it is to bend with the small frets. 4 hours of gigging wore my hand out! Sounded great, but execution was tough going at times. My solution for my guitar will be to refret with bigger wire. Its either that or back down the string guage. Ever notice the fingerboard wear on those old maple neck Teles? Its fingernails digging into the finish because the frets are so low.

April 9th, 2006, 03:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
AJ Love Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Madison WI Age: 42 Posts: 852	I've though ALOT about this topic in recent months. I love my '52 RI w/vintage frets... many of the very greatest players and string benders from Jimi Hendrix to Albert Collins to Roy Nichols and on played guitars with Vintage frets

April 9th, 2006, 08:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
TG Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Beside a bog in the west of Ireland Age: 47 Posts: 4,461 7 Photos	I'd bet money that you badly need to get the nut sorted out. Either by having the one on it now redone or else a new TUSQ pre-slotted one fitted properly. Have you got a capo? If you capo the first fret and it suddenly feels alot better then the nut is way too high. It would well be worth your time and money to find someone who knows how to setup guitars and pay them. You can learn to do it yourself (I have) but you'd probably want to 'practice' on something other than your precious 50s Classic tele. Get the nut sorted and you'll think you've got a different...and far more expensive... guitar.

June 28th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
maestrovert Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Branch Mi. Posts: 6,485	+1 it's the nut.... __________________ Sing the Song Bro' Play on Drummer www.godonthe.net

June 29th, 2006, 09:23 AM	#16 (permalink)
Chimp #6 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Clemente, California Posts: 170 17 Photos	+1 hybrid 46-9 guage __________________ When I was a young boy, I heard the sound of rolling thunder ..... ever since then I have been trying to play it.

June 29th, 2006, 10:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
moonshiner Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Milyucky, Whiskonsin Posts: 2,168	Have an experienced tech do some tweeking.. I do full step bends on the 2nd fret G all the time on my MIMC50... I agree that it's one of my favorite bends... All guitars are different.. I have some that it's pretty easy to do and others where it's a huge challenge.. and I play with 10-52s... The more you practice, they stronger your hand will get... __________________ "Everyone's got to be something... Me? I'm stupid... It's all I ever wanted to be... Shock me again!"

June 29th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#18 (permalink)
Don Miller Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Age: 57 Posts: 589 14 Photos	Yeah, the A-B (2nd fret to 4)bend on the third string is a pretty common move..the ultimate fake pedal steel lick...Nashville West, Peaceful Easy Feeling, Honky Tonk Women all use that bend...and theres a jillion more.. Try a slightly lighter G string...instead of a 16, or what ever you get in a 10-52 set, put a 15 or 14 on there,,,Clarence White used a 12 for the G..that takes alot of getting used to but sure makes for an easy bend...

June 29th, 2006, 12:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
brianwenz Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 325	Hello Hello-- Yeah.... nut, string guage, frets, amount of "bow" in the neck, all of those will add up to the playability. One important thing is how high the neck sits in the neck pocket. This will be reflected in how high the bridge needs to be adjusted and , thus, how stiff the action will be. High pocket = higher bridge saddles etc. I've seen quite a few of the vintage re-issues that sit pretty high in the neck pocket from the factory and the only solution is to lower the pocket by sanding or routing..... sometimes that's no fun. Brian.