My thoughts on women guitar players

[Lew UK]

After reading one of Mandys post,it got me thinking,why arent theyre many female players compared to male out there or are there?

Personally i dont give a hoot,im sure there are women out there that can pick just as well as the men.

Jennifer Batton for one?

And my Mother too boot!

is the industry that sexist and set in its way?

or what?

just some thoughts

Lew

[Jef]

a guitar probably is some kind of phallus symbol :?

[Bob Mc]

there's Patty Larkin, Cindy Cashdollar, Debbie Davis, the late Emily Remler too. Must pay a few extra dues to break into the boys club. Who could forget Jeannie Gerdy? She was in the 8th grade with me; she played guitar and I never forgot her...

[eryque]

It ain't just the industry that's sexist, I think this happens because guitar playing is among many things that's been codified as a male activity. Pretty much any job that brings someone to a position of importance or notoriety (lead guitar player, pilot, college professor, engineer, etc...) have always been thought of as guy things to do. The only exceptions I can think of right now are vocalists and grade school teachers, and I think the latter came about simply because women were always expected to do everything regarding children.

I think this is one of those things that isn't necessarily because of any institutionalized gender-bias in the industry, it's just one of those things that girls don't think about doing because it's not something often done by women. I think that record industry execs know that girls that play lead instruments well are hot.

If there's anyone working to make sure that girls don't become guitar players it's probably people in the community who don't want their young women acting un-lady-like.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone were to find out that there was bias against women guitarists as session pros, but not as performers.

[Scotland]

Must be some good drivers amongst them too.

[Dennis_UK]

Many hobbies/interests/occupations require some sort of "equipment-itis", say photography, computers, and of couse guitars, which appears to not grasp the majority of gals the way it does guys. They're probably far too sensible in reality! For instance, my better half tows the vacuum cleaner around, bumping into things, dragging it upstairs by the hose etc, where a guy would likely have more 'feeling' for the machine. Does this make any sense? And if it comes across offensive or sexist, it's not meant that way. There are many areas that could sorely do with a few more women in them, not only music. However, there was an encouraging article in the UK mag Guitarist a month or two ago, with maybe a dozen good female guitarists highlighted. Sadly (from the UK point of view), they were all, or nearly all, from the USA. The problem is much worse here than "you're a girl, your hands are too small" (did someone really say that? {shakes head}). It would seem that they're simply not that interested. Which is everyone's loss.

[Joel Terry]

I have no hard facts as to why the guitar is such a male-dominated instrument; I only have a vague suspicion about it.

I know some psychologists would be quick to point out the phallic symbolism of the guitar; in some way, I believe this leads to something we subconsciously do, and have done for a long, long time--we subconsciously discourage girls from taking up the guitar because it isn't considered a dainty, ladylike instrument, which goes without saying is a silly, baseless notion. Musicianship has absolutely nothing to do with gender (as if I really needed to say this).

I think Mandy's plan to teach guitar to groups of young girls is brilliant. She's doing something about uncovering untapped talent, which addresses a rhetorical question I've always asked: Who knows how much talent and musical genius has been, is being, and will be squandered all because one sex is subconsciously discouraged by society at large from taking up guitar (or any instrument, for that matter)? Thank God, Mandy, for one, isn't letting any uncovered talent/genius go unfulfilled. We should all follow her lead.

Joel :)

[RickC]

I'm playing in a band fronted by a female lead guitarist right now

http://www.stacyqueen.com/

What's funny is watching the reactions on the guys faces, the ones usually ogling her during setup, when she blasts out her first solo. "Oh, she can actually play". Duh. It's like the expectation is she's just going to be holding the guitar as prop. I've seen this so many times now, it's cliche. We both crack up.

Btw, Stacy definitely does not suffer from equipment-itis. In the two years I've known her, she's had exactly one guitar (Amstd Strat) and one amp (re-issue 4x10 Bassman). It took her almost a year to finally decide to buy a Holy Grail pedal. Funny, lack of GTS doesn't seem to stop her from playing like a demon.

Gotta get her a Tele though, sooner or later 8)

/rick

[stratohiker]

As far as equipment goes yes, I think most women aren't "in to that" by default. Why? Society, raising, who knows? I know when I start waxing on about computers, guitars, and the like, my wife's eyes start glazing over. But, I keep "talking to the wall" anyway, who knows, maybe I can bludgen her in to it eventually.

[Lew UK]

Originally Posted by Scotland

Must be some good drivers amongst them too.

8)

[Lew UK]

Originally Posted by Dennis_UK

For instance, my better half tows the vacuum cleaner around, bumping into things, dragging it upstairs by the hose etc, where a guy would likely have more 'feeling' for the machine. Does this make any sense?

lol nope,
dont mean to take that statement out of context it just made me giggle.

I wonder if BB King hoovers with feeling and Vai hoovers really really fast


im joking,please dont be offended

[Shnook]

I find it interesting that according to the history of guitar playing in the United States, women were the main players at first. Why that was abandoned and forgotten, I don't know.

[Joel Terry]

Originally Posted by Shnook

I find it interesting that according to the history of guitar playing in the United States, women were the main players at first. Why that was abandoned and forgotten, I don't know.

Trina, were you actively encouraged when you first took up guitar? Was it something you simply did of your own accord without really thinking about it? What did your peers think about it growing up? (I'm assuming, like most guitarists, you started when you were just a small fry.)

I'm asking because I like to get information direct from the source whenever this particular subject (lack of women guitarist) pops up--it's the best perspective on the subject.

Thanks,
Joel

[Scotland]

Typical example of a great guitarist and singer, could show me a thing or two. (no comments required. lol)
I bet she hoovers the stairs with great gusto and has absolutely no feeling for that vacuum cleaner at all !!!

know of mandy and pedalworld here at the tdpri that are female,and theyre both MUCH bigger gear heads than myself.
It would be interesting to hear a female perspective.

Totally agree with you Lew, they talk a lot of good and interesting stuff, some of it goes over my head when they talk of musicians styles etc. Long may they continue to do so.

[Lew UK]

i know of mandy and pedalworld here at the tdpri that are female,and theyre both MUCH bigger gear heads than myself.
It would be interesting to hear a female perspective.

[TeleGeir]

Hmmm... A couple of thoughts:

First of all, the male symbolism of guitars are fairly recent, like starting with the heavy rock shredders of the 70s. (Ok, they took the poses from Hendrix, but that is another matter.) Before that, guitars were definitely feminine. The body shape was considered feminine, the old guitarists treated their instruments as loved ones, and even named them Lucille etc. The focus of the touch was the strings, not the neck, it was the gentle stroke through a sweethearts hair, not of you own "gear". Admittedly some of the blues players especially hinted at stroking more than the hair, but in a good manly way.

There was loads of female guitar players back then, but they seemed to prefer the acoustic guitar to the electric. I think they could identify with the guitar as a sister, but the 70s stole that image away from them. (I even think I remember when: I believe it was Tokai who started running ads in the music press (Melody Maker/New Musical Express?) of a naked girl with their strat positioned in a more than suggestive pose.)

After that it simply became hard for girls to find role models. A Bonnie Raitt could be inspired by the blues players of her day, but I'd like to see the girl who sees an average black metal guitarist and says "Gee, I want to be like that". It is quite illustrative that "our" Mandy find her inspiration in the music of yesteryear, and her current influence in people who are inspired by same, and who certainly don't appear on MTV too often.

Also, eventually MTV would stereotype the role models that was out there. No need to fight through years of the pub gig route to fame when you can get there by a quick plastic surgery. Learning to play the guitar was like a waste of time. Check the record sales of Danny Gatton compared to the Spice Girls and do the maths.

Also, girls started taking liberty for granted, after the 60s and 70s had ploughed the way, fewer girls saw a point in conquering male strongholds. Girls with ambitions to change the world goes to university and becomes CEOs today, and don't even think about it, they don't organise protest marches.

But there is hope: And to me that is in the Avril Lavignes of this world, who is able to conquer guitar rock with a modern expression, and get on MTV too. Not all girls want to be Victoria Beckham, some actually have something to say. They just need to see someone do it. Just like I saw my heroes in the 60s, they need to find theirs.

Had more on my mind here, but I got to get an order for some parts for my next tele project sorted, so I will stop there for now.

Geir :)

[Billy Claire]

I don't know- PJ Harvey is pretty cool.... that Firebird and Orange really do something for me....

[genelovesjez]

I think it's a numbers game - there are fewer well known female guitarists because there are fewer female guitarists. Check out any music store on a Saturday, and it's mostly boys.

One possibility? I guess most guys become musicians to "get chicks". Women know they can pretty much "get men" anytime, anywhere without doing much of anything.

[cg73cmc]

My thought is simple ... they are better than men.

Tone rules over all except one thing -- a good lookin' gal playin' a guitar. That is why I would drop my entire life and marry Lita Ford tommorrow if she asked me -- even though she must be like 100 years old now, was never the best git player anyway, and was a terrible singer.

But she looked dang good in the spandex waving a guitar around. What kind of guitar was it? I don't think I ever took note.

And WHO could forget Suzanna Hoffs and that Rick she used to play with the bangles? Holy Cow, THAT made me walk like an Egyptian!

Sorry, but you gotta have priorities. :D

[Russ of Tokyo]

Here in Tokyo where public transportation is a way of life, you see a lot of guitar toting communters, and I'd say half of them more or less are female. (I almost typed half of them are female more or less; glad I caught that :) )

I wonder if the male guitarist is simply more likely to be drawn to a board like this, or play out where he gets more exposure...

The guitar definitely ain't just a toy for boys. Girls can play with them, too. Look, I still have my doll! Okay, It's still in the original box just in case some toy museum wants to buy it...

[John Harrison]

When I started my middle school guitar program, three years ago, I had only one female out of the twelve original students. The numbers have grown, steadily, since then.
This year, out of 43, nearly half were female and, significantly, when it came to performance time, they dominated the school's talent show. Only two of my male students played, whereas seven females played (and rocked!).
Part of it is role modeling and exposure. Part of it is encouragement. Regardless of what you think of the music of guitar-wielding female musicians, girls and young women need to see (and hear) women playing guitar, not scantily-clad models serving as guitar hangers.
Three cheers for Memphis Minnie, Joni Mitchell, Ani DiFranco, Courtney Love, Chrissie Hynde, Joan Jett, Avril Lavigne, Emily Remler (RIP), Patty Larkin, Kaki King, Joan Armatrading, Tracy Chapman, the Dixie Chicks, Bonnie Raitt, Cindy Cashdollar, Jennifer Batten, Leni Stern, and so on.

Extra props to Bonnie Raitt, who, if I have the story straight, insisted that her signature model Fender be scaled for female players. She also insisted that Fender assist in funding guitar education programs for girls. Now that's walking the walk! 8)

[JDO]

i guess you could make a cultural argument or anything else you want to. i think it just has to do with priorities and the way we're made. i'm going to make some generalizations so don't kill me or get mad at me.

why don't you see many auto machanics? is it because girls aren't allowed to work on cars? is it because they are discouraged from it? or is it simply because it's not in their make up to care about it? for guys, we like creating and building things. i personally think that's how we're made.

why aren't there many women carpenters? is it because girls aren't allowed to build houses? is it because they are discouraged from it? or is it simply because it's not in their make up to care about it?

why aren't there many women .......

now flipping that somewhat. i know that if you were to generally compair my wife and me, there are some general diffences. i think they have to do with how we're made. we've been married about 3 years and i'm just now ready to think about having kids. she on the other hand was ready when we got married (she was 19). i like having stuff (tools, toys, amps, guitars, thingies). she wants to have the shower curtain match the walls in the bathroom. i want to throw my cloths on the floor until it's time to do laundry. she wants them in a dirty cloths hamper. i simply think there are differences that are inherant that draw more guys to play then girls.

now, i do beleive there are girls that can absolutely kill me in guitar playing. i remember the first time i saw natalie merchant on saturday night live. here guitarist was a woman and i was ready to get married. she was hot and owned the guitar.

that's just my opinion in the matter.

[0le FUZZY]

I still haff all them old thangs yew done stashed away my bird-daigh kake yew made iss there tew on 3.5 floppys !!!!!! ??????? HEE! HEE!

Hay whilst yew wa