Early 1970's Tele????advice needed

[Twang Man]

Firstly a big HELLO to you all.

OK, I have recently purchased (not received yet) a 1975 Fender Telecaster. But a couple of things are bothering me. Firstly, the famous 'notch' at the bass side of the neck pocket doesn't seem to be correct for a 1975. Anyway, I'll let you guys have a look, what do you all think? Is it original? Does it weigh up?

Serial Number : 584542 (on neck plate)
POT number : 1377429 (CTS 1974 week 29??)

[tonfarbe]

Originally Posted by Twang Man

But a couple of things are bothering me. Firstly, the famous 'notch' at the bass side of the neck pocket doesn't seem to be correct for a 1975.

Yep, I'm not a vintage Tele expert, but from my observations,
the curve of the nodge on pre CBS Teles ended at the 17th fret
while the uglier, mid 70's notch-curve hit the neck at the 16th fret.

[Twang Man]

so, can we actually date the body then??

[timmer]

I don't have an example of a 75 tele but I do have these pictures:

From http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html



and this one from Fuzzy which I had to rotate to fit here.

[Twang Man]

So maybe then I could assume the body is earlier than the 1975 serial number?

Here's an idea...

when I receive it on saturday I'll remove the neck. This will probably reveal a code/date stamp so we can date the neck.
I've already dated the wiring to July 1974. I'll look in all cavities of the body for a date.

Would it be feasable to say it could be a 1973 neck, 1974 wiring, 1971 body that was assembled in 1975 therefore receiving the 1975 serial number?

[Robert H.]

The body is pre- '73. I don't know if you can pin down the exact year. The neck is Mid to late '72 or after since that's when the 2 string trees appeared (unless one was added) The neck will be dated. The original pots on the '72s still said '66 to my knowledge. The serial number on the plate looks high for a late 72 model. You may have a very nice Partscaster.

[0le FUZZY]

Boy I sure hope yew dent pay tew much fer that !!

12th fret marker dots, fret ends and headstock shape are makin me crazy here. I want it tew be watt yew want it tew be but ----------- That neck -------(I could be rong and I hope I am).

Now those string through ferrules onna back are out of line and I haff never ceen a 70s that dent line up purr-fect.

The edges of that body are very rounded as if sumone dunn sanded the dickins outta em.

That neck plate with the cereal numb-burr iss kerrect but as yew kin cee it don't fit that body good at the "Notch" area.

Now I ain't puttin it down jes observin as yew asked. It duz haff many stock 70s parts. Be sure and lettus noe about that neck date (with pixs) and the back side of that headstock (tuning keys and mebby extra holes).

Timmer, about those pick-chures. The one from Clay iss won of mine. I took it here about 9 years ago (of tew of my Teles) and whence I posted it ole Clay wassa doin his online guitar page (a very good won I mite add) and he borrowed it HEE! HEE! The won yew turnt on edge waz sent tew me by Alan P. years ago. I gave him credit fer it.

Again, I hope I'm rong here.



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[zombywoof]

Like many of ya'll I ain't no expert. Heck, if someone handed me a '75 & a '85 I probably could not guess which was which. Maybe it is the camera angle, but I agree with Fuzzy, the body seems a bit out of whack other than the notch. The flatness near the output jack and what appears to be a more radical angle of the butt or bottom part of the body appear odd to my eyes. But again, it really all comes down to how it feels and sounds. And if you are happy with that then all will be right with the world.

[jazzguitar]

In my humble opinion, the notch shape here is fairly typical for a '71 or '72 body. The reason for the loss of the notch was the introduction of NC routers, but apparently the old pin routers were still used until about 1973. I haven't yet seen a 1973 body with the notch. Yet bodies without it appeared well before 1971.

Apparently CBS Fender also ceased to maintain the old pin routers' templates, which, I think, explains why the notch becomes less and less pronounced, typically 1968 bodies already have a different shape compared to the older Teles, but not as flat as the body shown by the original poster.

[Twang Man]

OK, I have a bit more info...

The body was originally an off white colour (this apparently is still visable in the control cavity).

So it could be possible that this body has been stripped of its original colour by hand, thus the apparent misshape down near the jack socket??? maybe.

The fella who Im buying it off has said it's as it was when bought new except for the colour.

When I receive it on Saturday I'll take some real close ups of cavities etc and with you help I might just be able to verify it's originality. maybe?

[Twang Man]

UPDATE:
The nice man has taken the neck off and photoed it for us. Now what are peoples thoughts? The neck looks OK.
Stamped Code: 13031245
13 = Tele
03 = Fretted Maple
12 = Week 12
4 = 1974
5 = Day 5

[Twang Man]

UPDATE2:

More pictures, body shape looks ok from here...

[slack]

Twang Man,

I regret to share with you my opinion that this Tele was made to deceive.

I would add to the concerns about the body that the notch was usually not so well defined on the late 68-72 Teles without channel routs. There was transition from large, clear notch to none. It is not a 74/75 Fender body, IMO.

But, it is not a 70s Fender USA neck. Adding to Fuzzy's points:

See how the walnut skunk stripe is perfectly square and flush at the end in the pic of the neck heel? That rout should have a rounded end, with the walnut being square, resulting in a gap.

The pin router hole is in the wrong location. You can also pull the D tuner and see of the other pin router hole is present, or in the correct location.

The stamp is bogus. Much wrong with it.

Generally, the neck just appears wrong. Sharp edges everywhere, slightly tinted instead of aged, missing typical marks and stamps. I don't like the plug area of the headstock, either.

I bet those F tuners are fully enclosed with no holes in the bottom of the casing. A Tele with this neck stamp would almost certainly have the first version of the F tuners.

Some pics of my 74 (or more likely very early 75, I just haven't updated that).

[Dacious]

My bet is, it is a refinished Japanese Tele from the 80's. It's not Mexican unless perhaps it's very early 90's, it's not US-made. A friend has a Japanese 80's replica of a 70's Strat with three bolt and bullet adjuster, which on close inspection falls into the 'close but no cigar' category including a neckplate serial number which looks like a quasi-US.

The rubber ink stamp on the neck is a very poor forgery - wrong font, size and looks nothing like the many 70's stamps we've seen on this page. It the stamp is visible, why is the remains of the inspection sticker on the neck heel not? For one thing, it is too legible! The vendor of this guitar may be innocent, but if he's selling it as a 70's needs to be made aware it is not genuine. It may be a good axe, but is not what it purports to be.

I also think it's not ash or alder. I believe it's Kauri, also known as Pacific Pine and today labelled Agathis. Certainly never used by Fender US, but often used in different Asian guitars.

I have a Japanese manufacture Strat neck made of material very like this. Like birch, which Ibanez commonly used in necks, Kauri is not as hard as maple and has stronger grain, but not as heavy grain or as soft as ash but it falls in between and makes a good capped neck, prone to stripping the bolt holes.

I think Slack has it. Check some pictures of my '78 - some things are different due to the different purported year, but I believe it shows what Fender manufacture looks like from the no-notch era.

'78 Tele

[Twang Man]

Thank you very much every one, I managed to stop the cheque. I'm not happy with this guitar and you guys have just saved me from making a big mistake.

The guy claimed it was a completely original 1975 US Tele but only wanted £850 for it, which rang alarm bells from the start.

1000 thank you's

I owe you all a beer.

[harlycarly]

that was a close one!!!!