How do poly finishes age naturally?

[kerc]

I was wondering about this...we all know about nitro, enamels, etc...What about poly? Does it age eventually? What effect does regularly playing a poly guitar has on the finish? Dulls? Cracks? Fades? Or is it indestructable? (Apart from chips and nicks)...

[Silverface]

Polyurethane is relatively inert when cured. It doesn't undergo "aging" as lacquers do. Accellerated aging tests show high-grade polyurethanes to be essentially the same after 50+ years.

That being said, I think they feel sticky
, plus it inherently takes a higher film thickness to apply poly than lacquer, deadening sound qualities.

[freddyking]

Poly is like styrofoam in a landfill;it aint changing at all.On the other hand perhaps a hard surface channels vibrations to the bridge.

[Dacious]

Depends very much on the formulation of the paint. Check out this '78 where blonde has gone from white to custard.

'78 Tele

and this 2000 model 69 RI where the finish has darkened despite it living in its' case most of the time

69RI

Poly won't chequer like nitro laquer will. However, given many Fender colour coats as far back as the fifties were acrylic, neither will they. The film thickness of these finishes is also not very thick.

The pore filler and sanding sealer (which are cheap) in the ash '78 would be heavier and thicker than the colourcoat (which is expensive). Both these go back to the very first ash Broadcasters made. The 69RI has likely one coat of water-thinned clear which needs no sealer.

[Mr Joad]

That is not the whole truth. I have a 1985 MIJ tele thinline and the polyneck is much darker now than it used to be, really nice. That shows well when I take it off, I don´t have a picture of it right now but next time I´ll have it apart I´m gonna take a few. Also my 1996 Squier strat has a darker neck and a few vertikal cracks in the finish. Unfortunally the thinline body has been refinished before I bought it so I cannot say how it looked before. Wonder why the guy had it done? But of course it will probably never look like a well worn 50´s tele :(

[Joe-Bob]

I have a Japanese made guitar from 78 or so. It looks brand new except the binding has yellowed.

No, it's not sticky. It's smooth, and since I keep it waxed up nice, it feels nice and slick.

[Dana]

Here's a 1983 Phil Kubicki Tele that I own.

Poly wears if you play the snots out of it. :D

[Lostheart]

Poly has a bad reputation for not aging well, but my first "good" guitar was a 1988 Stratocaster with a Poly paintjob and I swear that the Poly has somewhat sunken into the wood over the years.
When I got it it the finish was mirror like and now...when you hold it sideways you can actually see the woodgrain comin' through. I would have noticed that when I bought it but I swear to god that this wasn't the case when I got it.

[0le FUZZY]

Poly is the most wonderful covering ever invented for an electric guitar.

None body has ever nor will they ever cornvince me any different or udder wise.

I haff spent years here onna inner-mess and else where in real life comparing all kinds of udder finishes and none is better.

My Humble Opinion onlee and Yer Milage May Vary (specially iffin yew run a fancy-smanchy refin place).

YES!!! It ages very beautiful and yellows within 2 years.






Please visit my page

[bo]

What Lostheart said. My '94 JD is now showing wood grain and is starting to separate/shrink from around parts of the binding a very little bit. Otherwise it's still nice and shiny (and dinged up...).

[Mr. Sparkle]

Mt 97 52RI in Copper is starting to show some wear, mostly in the neck. I bring this up 'cause I've heard that the 52RI's, even though they are listed as nitro finish, do have poly. Here is a pic from Telemodders of a heavily-used 52RI Coppercaster. Shows what weekly playing will get ya. Not really a relic-type wear, but more the way nitro/poly will wear.

[Lostheart]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Mt 97 52RI in Copper is starting to show some wear, mostly in the neck. I bring this up 'cause I've heard that the 52RI's, even though they are listed as nitro finish, do have poly. Here is a pic from Telemodders of a heavily-used 52RI Coppercaster. Shows what weekly playing will get ya. Not really a relic-type wear, but more the way nitro/poly will wear.

My 1992 52 AV RI is slowly looking "aged" as well...the finish begins to look "uneven" (for the lack of a better word) and I don't get a heartattack anymore when I discover a new ding in the finish.
When all this talk about the Reissues not being Nitro-guitars came up I have to admid that I was somewhat p***** off because I always wanted my guitar to look like the old blackguards in two or three decades from now. But ever since I saw some pics of Tele's from the 70s and especially a pic of Bill Kirchen's well-worn 52 RI, I'm sure mine will age very gracefully as well...

[Aen]

It ages faster if you throw it.

[OaklandA]

the only thing I've noticed about Poly as far as aging (as opposed to wear) is that it will yellow over time. On some finishes like Natural or Blonde it looks kind of nice. On some colors...like the ultra-whites (Alpine, Olympic)...maybe not as nice. On those it looks like nicotine or to me.

Just an opinion.

[Dana]

Originally Posted by Aen

It ages faster if you throw it.

[Telemarkman]

ole FUZZY - I think I LUV you ! :-)
I've never understood why people want their guitars to
age in no time at all. If it did, how would it look in say 20
or more years ?
A good finish is supposed to protect the guitar as well as
look good, and Poly does both with honour !

If you want a super glossy finish, you can always put a
coat of Nitro on top of it - like the 52RIs.

[Joel Terry]

The 1971 Precision Bass I owned for 25 years had lots of checking and wear on its poly three-color sunburst finish by the time I traded it to my stepfather three years ago for a '75 Tele Custom. Looked like the same checking and wear patterns on many '50s and '60s lacquered Fenders, to be perfectly honest.

Also, my '82 Squier Tele with a late-'80s MIJ Fender '52 RI neck has a lovely, smooth, natural wear pattern on the edges and parts of the back of the neck. A few minute wear spots are beginning to show on the fretboard, too. (Incidentally, the original poly hasn't been sanded off or buffed by steel wool.) I suspect the fretboard will show very noticeable signs of wear--like those from the '50s--in a few years.

Joel

[telecine]

As far as i understand, a poly finished guitar will never look like vintage aged one even in 20+ years unless you grind the surface...that's why Custom Shop models cost higher. I pretty believe the extra $$$ of CS models mainly goes for Nitro look.

[slack]

Originally Posted by Joel Terry

The 1971 Precision Bass I owned for 25 years had lots of checking and wear on its poly three-color sunburst finish by the time I traded it to my stepfather three years ago for a '75 Tele Custom. Looked like the same checking and wear patterns on many '50s and '60s lacquered Fenders, to be perfectly honest.

Joel, that is likely because it was not poly. I've never seen a 70s Fender sunburst finish that wasn't nitro lacquer.

I've not owned any very late 70s sunburst finish Fenders, but all the 70s one's I have seen or owned were lacquer. I currently have the following Fenders in sunburst: 68, 70, and 75 Teles; and 76 P-Bass. All are original lacquer finish.

Besides headstock faces, I expect sunburst and custom colors to be lacquer until the late 70s.

[Twang]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

I believe that guitar belongs to our own Mandy Marie's husband (Danny?)

FWIW, my Copper 97/52ri isn't showing much change or age at all.

[OaklandA]

Originally Posted by telecine

As far as i understand, a poly finished guitar will never look like vintage aged one even in 20+ years unless you grind the surface...that's why Custom Shop models cost higher. I pretty believe the extra $$$ of CS models mainly goes for Nitro look.

Yes and no.

You're right that a poly finished guitar will never look like a vintage aged one. The finish will yellow, but you won't get the same type of yellowing and checking that you get with Nitro.

However, CS models get the Nitro look...from Nitro. They are not poly finished but done in Nitro to begin with.

That may be part of the higher cost of a CS model, but more from the fact that there is less assembly line work and more individual craftmanship on those models. That, and marketing .

[GlennLewis]

After much trial and error, the only thing I use to finish my guitars is wipe on poly. I don't even spray it anymore. Layers well, levels nicely, dries quickly. Easy to blend and tint, cuts in nicely, very easy to touch up. I absolutely prefer it for neck and body finishes. It turns a nice vintage yellow to amber tone after a couple years, stays nice and smooth, and I've never had it turn sticky.

Every neck or body that I get that's finished in nitro, the nitro get's stripped off first thing. It's such a fragile and finicky material. You can barely wax it without it geting all gummy, and it sucks up dirt and sweat like a magnet.

I believe that if there was a decent poly finish available at the time, Leo would have used it, and the heck with nitro......

....he says as he lights the fuse and runs away......

[Bill Hullett]

v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y

Bill Hullett

[kerc]

Interesting discussion here! Thanks for the info, guys...By the way, I'm not interesting in falsely aging the looks of my Tele. I just wondered about how it would look in 5 or 10 years of constant use...

8)