Vintage Esquire authenticity question

bj yoon · January 16th, 2006, 03:03 AM

Someone I know has this Esquire on sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7359245501

I am interested in this guitar which is refinished, and has 55 neck/56 body. I see the pickup and the saddles are not period-correct and so is one of the knobs.
Is there anything looks wrong with this guitar except those stuff? :? I desperately need some inputs from experts here. Thanks in advance~! :)

Fuzzyhead · January 16th, 2006, 03:12 AM

The third picture from the end looks like the frets are nearly gone...

garcia · January 16th, 2006, 03:22 AM

Cool looking Esquire. Is that really a Champ amp next to the guitar? It looks like a Pro Jr. that has been distressed.

DavidE · January 16th, 2006, 01:08 PM

Just to start, I say it's impossible to tell anything from certain from internet pictures so the following is my opinion only. However...the knobs are fine. Most of the rest is not. The neck appears to be original, the body I am less certain about. Both the neck pu route and the wire channel have been messed with. The two extra holes in the neck pocket for a handle are not original. The bridge bothers me. The pickup is almost certainly not original. Saddles not. The switch might be original but it's hard to see in the pics, the rest of the electronics not. Looks like there was once a neck pickup on the guitar. Can't say as for the decal since the neck was "refinished". And on my monitor at least the body refin is not a particularly attractive color. Not the most solid Esquire out there for the money.

Cheers,
David

bj yoon · January 16th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Thanks for the inputs guys.

Fuzzyhead,
Yes, the frets are nearly gone, very hard to play. :)

garcia,
Isn't it 63 or 64 transitional Champ?

DavidE,
Thanks for your opinion. I like the guitar because the guitar sounds good and plays well, and the seller offered the price cheaper than his auction price. Anyway, I like to know more about the guitar before I buy it. I agree most of your opinion but like to know why the bridge plate bothers you.

RockinCarl · January 17th, 2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzyhead

The third picture from the end looks like the frets are nearly gone...

Thats nothing- You should see my '62 Jaguar!

bj yoon · January 17th, 2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinCarl

Thats nothing- You should see my '62 Jaguar!

My '62 Jazzmaster is almost fretless too.

DavidE · January 17th, 2006, 01:45 PM

BJ,
There are a coupla things about the bridge I don't like. One, the stampings are too "bold" and filled with some kind of dirt, grunge, etc. to make them look old. Second, the plate itself has a certain "relic'd" appearance to it as if the entire thing were sanded or scuffed up. The all-new hardware is a small indicator as well. During this era bridge plates had a very shiny section forward of the pickup while the rest was somewhat "granular" looking. This is because the only area that got buffed prior to plating was the section forward of the pickup so that came out very shiny after plating as I mentioned.

Something worth noting is that the current reissue bridge plates - which you can buy virtually everywhere - are still stamped on the original tooling. But it's old and fairly worn out so it leaves different markings behind. The most telling is the words "Fender" and "Pat. Pend". Look closely at known original bridges from this period and the lettering is very crisp and not that deeply imprinted. Compare that to this bridge and you will see what I mean. The stamps are just worn and have lost their crispness.

If I could see the bridge in person then I could make a more accurate assesment, but from these pics I'd bet it's a current Fender reissue plate. Of course I'm not suggesting the seller knows this or anything like that, it's just my opinion of the parts is all.

Cheers,
David

bj yoon · January 18th, 2006, 01:06 AM

David,
Thanks again for your opinion.
I have observed the bridge plate last night, and I have concluded from the evidences that it was relic'd re-issue. Anyway, I would like to know about the saddles of that period. They were steel saddles as far as I know, right?

DavidE · January 18th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Smooth steel saddles of 1/4" dia. usually "canted" back to some degree...although exactly how much tended to vary. As did the actual width of each saddle. Usually, if not always, nickel plated.

Cheers,
David

RockinCarl · January 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj yoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinCarl

Thats nothing- You should see my '62 Jaguar!

My '62 Jazzmaster is almost fretless too.

Let guess- It's sunburst......

bj yoon · January 19th, 2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinCarl

Let guess- It's sunburst......

It's Olympic White! 8)

RockinCarl · January 19th, 2006, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj yoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinCarl

Let guess- It's sunburst......

It's Olympic White! 8)

WOW! Didn't see that coming! The Jaguar's Sunburst, and the frets look identical to yours! Same family.

January 16th, 2006, 03:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
bj yoon TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Third stone from the sun Posts: 22	Vintage Esquire authenticity question Someone I know has this Esquire on sale. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7359245501 I am interested in this guitar which is refinished, and has 55 neck/56 body. I see the pickup and the saddles are not period-correct and so is one of the knobs. Is there anything looks wrong with this guitar except those stuff? :? I desperately need some inputs from experts here. Thanks in advance~! :)

January 16th, 2006, 03:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Fuzzyhead Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bonn (Yer-up) Age: 25 Posts: 1,350 23 Photos	The third picture from the end looks like the frets are nearly gone... __________________ about me: blog, photos & musical preferences

January 16th, 2006, 03:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
garcia Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern California Age: 36 Posts: 493	Cool looking Esquire. Is that really a Champ amp next to the guitar? It looks like a Pro Jr. that has been distressed. __________________ “Desolation, desolation, I owe so much to desolation.” ...“The Dharma Bums”

January 16th, 2006, 01:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
DavidE Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	Just to start, I say it's impossible to tell anything from certain from internet pictures so the following is my opinion only. However...the knobs are fine. Most of the rest is not. The neck appears to be original, the body I am less certain about. Both the neck pu route and the wire channel have been messed with. The two extra holes in the neck pocket for a handle are not original. The bridge bothers me. The pickup is almost certainly not original. Saddles not. The switch might be original but it's hard to see in the pics, the rest of the electronics not. Looks like there was once a neck pickup on the guitar. Can't say as for the decal since the neck was "refinished". And on my monitor at least the body refin is not a particularly attractive color. Not the most solid Esquire out there for the money. Cheers, David

January 16th, 2006, 11:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
bj yoon TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Third stone from the sun Posts: 22	Thanks for the inputs guys. Fuzzyhead, Yes, the frets are nearly gone, very hard to play. :) garcia, Isn't it 63 or 64 transitional Champ? DavidE, Thanks for your opinion. I like the guitar because the guitar sounds good and plays well, and the seller offered the price cheaper than his auction price. Anyway, I like to know more about the guitar before I buy it. I agree most of your opinion but like to know why the bridge plate bothers you.

January 17th, 2006, 01:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
DavidE Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	BJ, There are a coupla things about the bridge I don't like. One, the stampings are too "bold" and filled with some kind of dirt, grunge, etc. to make them look old. Second, the plate itself has a certain "relic'd" appearance to it as if the entire thing were sanded or scuffed up. The all-new hardware is a small indicator as well. During this era bridge plates had a very shiny section forward of the pickup while the rest was somewhat "granular" looking. This is because the only area that got buffed prior to plating was the section forward of the pickup so that came out very shiny after plating as I mentioned. Something worth noting is that the current reissue bridge plates - which you can buy virtually everywhere - are still stamped on the original tooling. But it's old and fairly worn out so it leaves different markings behind. The most telling is the words "Fender" and "Pat. Pend". Look closely at known original bridges from this period and the lettering is very crisp and not that deeply imprinted. Compare that to this bridge and you will see what I mean. The stamps are just worn and have lost their crispness. If I could see the bridge in person then I could make a more accurate assesment, but from these pics I'd bet it's a current Fender reissue plate. Of course I'm not suggesting the seller knows this or anything like that, it's just my opinion of the parts is all. Cheers, David

January 18th, 2006, 01:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
bj yoon TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Third stone from the sun Posts: 22	David, Thanks again for your opinion. I have observed the bridge plate last night, and I have concluded from the evidences that it was relic'd re-issue. Anyway, I would like to know about the saddles of that period. They were steel saddles as far as I know, right?

January 18th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
DavidE Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	Smooth steel saddles of 1/4" dia. usually "canted" back to some degree...although exactly how much tended to vary. As did the actual width of each saddle. Usually, if not always, nickel plated. Cheers, David