Need help in achieving a more "country" tone!

squeally dan · November 22nd, 2005, 02:29 PM

Hey! I'm new to this site, & learning lots of good stuff!

I have a new gig starting soon, and my band will be backing up a country singer once a month. I am having a hard time getting the tone I want. I am using a maz jr. NR with a 1x12 Mesa Boogie cabinet. I have a nice 1989 American Telecaster. I bought it used so I don't know a lot about it. THe guy told me it was made from Swamp Ash. It feels heavier than some tele's I've played. Many years ago I repalced the neck single coil with a humbucker. ANyways, it doesn't sound very "country" I try using the stock bridge pickup and it sounds very weak and almost too bright and "Ice Pick" like. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Chris S. · November 22nd, 2005, 02:54 PM

Hey, welcome to the TDPRI, glad you're here. Great username, too!* :-)

First thing I'd suggest is rolling your Tele's tone control back completely so it's "full mud," then slowly rolling it open until you hear the high end begin to emerge. Somewhere between full-on "ice pick" and full-off "mud," you'll find the sweet spot, which is Where The Magic Happens. ;-) Seriously, it's one of the true "Secrets of the Telecaster."

Next, I'd take a look at how you use your right hand. Do you know how to do "chicken pickin' ?" It's related to hybrid picking, which involves using your fingers in combination with the pick to produce stutter sounds, banjo-type rolls, Scotty Moore (Elvis' guitar player) type rhythm fills, and all sorts of interesting stuff. You may have heard the saying "Tone is in the hands" – what the top Nashville pickers do with their right hands is one of the big reasons why. ;-)

Finally, you'll notice that we have an entire sub-forum called "Just Pickups." Wanna take a guess what gets discussed there? ;-) There are more (and better!) aftermarket choices for pickpups now than ever before. Just start poking around in there reading some of the existing threads, you'll get a pretty good idea. The TDPRI also has a very useful "Search" function at the top of every page, so you can look up anything you want, like individual brands of pickups, etc.

So... have fun. :-) Hope it helps, CS

*Other recent faves: "LexLuthier," "Mark Twang" ;-)

squeally dan · November 22nd, 2005, 03:35 PM

THanks for all the info! Thats awesome! Somebody else today told me about the tone knob. I have to admit in playing rock and blues I rarely ever touch the tone control. I just leave it full on. I will definately mess with that.

I am doing lots of practicing trying to get my chops in shape. I am thinking a good video might also help with some of the chicken pickin technique.

fezz parka · November 22nd, 2005, 03:41 PM

Chris S. nails it. Also try playing with the volume knob rolled back slightly.

mike_levitt · November 22nd, 2005, 03:57 PM

Try raising up your bridge pickup so it's about 1/8" from the strings. If you run them too low they tend to get a bit thin..

Drop the humbucker down a bit to balance the output between the 2 pickups...

You've probably got your amp set up to work with the HB - which is going to be naturally a lot louder and have more bass and mids than the bridge pickup.

Try working with the controls of the amp to get it sounding good with the Bridge PU, then see how you can tweak the height of the HB to get it sounding good too.

Finally, I think the big thick american standard bridge is a tone killer - especially when you're looking for "twang." You might want to try finding a vintage style 3 saddle bridge that will fit your guitar...

Mike

gls500 · November 22nd, 2005, 04:02 PM

Is your cabinet opened or closed back?

I find that for a good country tone, an open backed cabinet cuts a lot better.

There are a lot of fellow Z users here, so I KNOW it's not the amp ;)

squeally dan · November 22nd, 2005, 04:58 PM

Thanks for all the help. I'm so glad I found this place!

TO answer a couple questions.

Both of my cabinets are closed back.

As far as the bridge. It came with a more vintage style 3 saddle thing, but It now has a more newer style one that I guy told me would have better intonation.

I put the humbucker in it which makes it very versatile, but I am wondering now if I would like it better with the single coil back in the neck. What do you guys think?

What model would this tele be? LIke I said I think it was made in'89 but I'm not sure. I bought it used. WHen I got it, it had two single coils, and again it did have a more vintage style bridge. It is the wood finish with black pickguard. Is their a way to find out more about it. Would the serial number help?

Grin'n'pick · November 22nd, 2005, 08:02 PM

Absolutely agree about rolling the controls back a bit. Until I played country I never touched 'em and always wondered what those 'real' guitarists were doing with them all the time. Then when the Marshall stack went out of the window (not literally!) I saw the light (or should that be 'heard the sweet spot') and realised they are in fact the center of everything between a good guitar and a sweet clean tube amp. Nobody tells you this at the time though

TELECASTERbstrd · November 23rd, 2005, 09:50 AM

Sounds like it's the amp. I tried a Mesa Boogie once...once!
It's pretty hard finding the right amp for a good country tone. Add a little compression. I run my tone pot wide open, you're ears are probably not used to that balls to the wall Teleness yet.

Darrell · November 23rd, 2005, 12:33 PM

The AS bridge pup is arguably the worst one of any...

Don't shoot me...I am just tell you my opinion

Try just about anything else.

squeally dan · November 23rd, 2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TELECASTERbstrd

Sounds like it's the amp. I tried a Mesa Boogie once...once!
It's pretty hard finding the right amp for a good country tone. Add a little compression. I run my tone pot wide open, you're ears are probably not used to that balls to the wall Teleness yet.

I'm using a Dr Z Maz Jr head. The only componenet thats Mesa is the cabinet. I don't think its the amp.

squeally dan · November 23rd, 2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell

The AS bridge pup is arguably the worst one of any...

Don't shoot me...I am just tell you my opinion

Try just about anything else.

I promise not to shoot you! I'll wait 'til I know you a little better before I do that. I never shoot on the first post.

Actually I apprecaite your opinion. I'm actually finding out I don't know much about this guitar I've had for at least 10 years. I bought it used. I don't really know the model. I just know it was made in the USA. The guy who sold it to me said it was made in 1989, but the serial number seems to indicate that it was made in 77' or 78'.

Should I put the vintage style bridge back on it? Would it give more twang?

Darrell · November 23rd, 2005, 01:02 PM

I had the same findings with my 97 tele. I could not adjust it to dial out the problem, or another problem occured. All the other strings were fine. The B and E string sounded like AM radio hiss. Tone was almost inditinguishable.

Try an MIJ, or an OV, or just about any other pickup, and you will be happier. Just make sure it is wound in the 6's or 7's.

Bill Hullett · November 23rd, 2005, 02:00 PM

Hi....
If it were me.....I'd put the original bridge back on.....I'd then get a set of Glendale saddles , (That will make it intonate well) Then i would get a nice compressor (Dyna comp will work great....a Keeley will be even better) and a delay pedal (your favorite here) adjust the delay at apx 200 ms and put it to were it only represents about 30% of your signal.....that will get you very Nashville sounding.........

Bill Hullett

Darrell · November 23rd, 2005, 02:21 PM

I respect Bill's opinion more than anyone else's...anywhere. Period.

Darrell · November 23rd, 2005, 02:54 PM

Bill, I just want to say that I am still in awe when I go back to pick up some of your old Radney Foster licks.

Stan Martin · November 23rd, 2005, 03:12 PM

light strings i.e. 9's. for the James Burton,Clarence White, Albert Lee, Brent Mason country twang. Heavier strings are great and intonate better, but you don't get the cluck nearly as much. Plus with a lighter gauge you can perform some great faux steel bends lightning quick.

squeally dan · November 26th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Thanks for all the ideas. It sounds like I need a compressor.

Also, does anyone use a volume pedal much. I know you could just as well use the volume knob, but it seems like a voulme pedal might help in getting some pedal steel sounding licks.

Ed Bickert · November 26th, 2005, 07:49 PM

I used a Mesa cab (Polytone head) for years to get a nice, rich, dark, warm tone. The Mesa cab is open back, but for whatever reason it's very warm. I went to see Pat Martino last year and he actually used a Clarus 1R head with two large Mesa cabs.

I personally think a cab has a lot of influence on your sound. Not sure if it would help, just figured I'd offer my two cents.

Also, if you're mechanically inclined you might consider putting a splitter for the HB or possibly replacing it with a single coil just to get the signature twang back.

squeally dan · December 1st, 2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris S.

Hey, welcome to the TDPRI, glad you're here. Great username, too!* :-)

First thing I'd suggest is rolling your Tele's tone control back completely so it's "full mud," then slowly rolling it open until you hear the high end begin to emerge. Somewhere between full-on "ice pick" and full-off "mud," you'll find the sweet spot, which is Where The Magic Happens. ;-) Seriously, it's one of the true "Secrets of the Telecaster."

Next, I'd take a look at how you use your right hand. Do you know how to do "chicken pickin' ?" It's related to hybrid picking, which involves using your fingers in combination with the pick to produce stutter sounds, banjo-type rolls, Scotty Moore (Elvis' guitar player) type rhythm fills, and all sorts of interesting stuff. You may have heard the saying "Tone is in the hands" – what the top Nashville pickers do with their right hands is one of the big reasons why. ;-)

Finally, you'll notice that we have an entire sub-forum called "Just Pickups." Wanna take a guess what gets discussed there? ;-) There are more (and better!) aftermarket choices for pickpups now than ever before. Just start poking around in there reading some of the existing threads, you'll get a pretty good idea. The TDPRI also has a very useful "Search" function at the top of every page, so you can look up anything you want, like individual brands of pickups, etc.

So... have fun. :-) Hope it helps, CS

*Other recent faves: "LexLuthier," "Mark Twang" ;-)

I have tried playing with the tone knob and it does help. It seems like if I get the ice pick dialed out of my lead sound, it makes the rhythm sound too dark and muddy. Anyone ever struggle with this?

THANKS!

TELECASTERbstrd · December 1st, 2005, 05:05 PM

That's a very common problem in some Tele's. The rethym is muddy to start with on many stock pu's especially m/cij's. I like the sound of the Fender TX Special neck pu's and I hear Dimarzio (I think the Twang King model) makes some affordable replacements.

Other than that it's rollin'the tone knob.

Teleman · December 1st, 2005, 07:20 PM

I play through a Dr Z MaZ 18 jr. In additon to what has been mentioned here al ready, use the cut control on the amp to dial in the tlee tone you desire. Works for me!

Darrell · December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 PM

If you are playing straight through a song, bouncing from lead to rythym, and back, you are adjusting the tone knob accordingly, back and forth, throughout...

That is what I have seen from tele players live.

e-merlin · December 3rd, 2005, 08:21 PM

I can't help you much in the tone department, but Squeally Dan is one of the best screen names I've ever seen!

Someone mentioned compressors earlier so I will offer my opinion here. Peavey made a great one years ago called the CS2 Compressor/Sustainer or something like that. It's a black stompbox and is one of the best I've ever owned. Pretty cheap, too. You can find them on eBay and in quite a few pawn shops.

Good luck on achieving your tone.

eggman · December 3rd, 2005, 08:42 PM

Squeally Dan,

BTW, you've got one cool screen name! I'm a 3rd rate C&W picker. I've had compliments about my tone (sometimes from some people) when using a Strat through a solid-state Crate! Well, maybe not compliments from veteran guitarists

Get a Tele with medium to vintage output p/u's. IMHO the type of bridge isn't that important. Am. Std, or vintage style both have advantages, I prefer vintage.
Use a tube amp with some headroom; A Fender Twin being arguably the most desireable.
Listen to Don Rich (Those old Buck Owens single are a treasure!), Roy Nichols, The DeRailers and Jerry Reed, et al. LISTEN to these guys. Then, get some lessons. If you know how to play with a thumb-pick, you are already halfway there. Being a flat-picker is OK, too. If you've got the desire, nobody can stop you. Good luck! As usual, YMMV.

Eggman

November 22nd, 2005, 02:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
squeally dan TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 65	Need help in achieving a more "country" tone! Hey! I'm new to this site, & learning lots of good stuff! I have a new gig starting soon, and my band will be backing up a country singer once a month. I am having a hard time getting the tone I want. I am using a maz jr. NR with a 1x12 Mesa Boogie cabinet. I have a nice 1989 American Telecaster. I bought it used so I don't know a lot about it. THe guy told me it was made from Swamp Ash. It feels heavier than some tele's I've played. Many years ago I repalced the neck single coil with a humbucker. ANyways, it doesn't sound very "country" I try using the stock bridge pickup and it sounds very weak and almost too bright and "Ice Pick" like. Any suggestions? Thanks!

November 22nd, 2005, 02:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chris S. Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC) Posts: 2,894 7 Photos	Hey, welcome to the TDPRI, glad you're here. Great username, too!* :-) First thing I'd suggest is rolling your Tele's <u>tone control</u> back completely so it's "full mud," then slowly rolling it open until you hear the high end begin to emerge. Somewhere between full-on "ice pick" and full-off "mud," you'll find the sweet spot, which is Where The Magic Happens. ;-) Seriously, it's one of the true "Secrets of the Telecaster." Next, I'd take a look at how you use your right hand. Do you know how to do "chicken pickin' ?" It's related to <u>hybrid picking</u>, which involves using your fingers in combination with the pick to produce stutter sounds, banjo-type rolls, Scotty Moore (Elvis' guitar player) type rhythm fills, and all sorts of interesting stuff. You may have heard the saying "Tone is in the hands" – what the top Nashville pickers do with their <u>right</u> hands is one of the big reasons why. ;-) Finally, you'll notice that we have an entire sub-forum called "Just Pickups." Wanna take a guess what gets discussed there? ;-) There are more (and better!) aftermarket choices for pickpups now than ever before. Just start poking around in there reading some of the existing threads, you'll get a pretty good idea. The TDPRI also has a very useful "Search" function at the top of every page, so you can look up anything you want, like individual brands of pickups, etc. So... have fun. :-) Hope it helps, CS Other recent faves: "LexLuthier," "Mark Twang" ;-) __________________ "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's depressing."* – Tara, from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" "It was born at the junction of form and function." – Bill Kirchen, from "Hammer of the Honky-Tonk Gods"

November 22nd, 2005, 03:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
mike_levitt Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 316	Couple other things.... Try raising up your bridge pickup so it's about 1/8" from the strings. If you run them too low they tend to get a bit thin.. Drop the humbucker down a bit to balance the output between the 2 pickups... You've probably got your amp set up to work with the HB - which is going to be naturally a lot louder and have more bass and mids than the bridge pickup. Try working with the controls of the amp to get it sounding good with the Bridge PU, then see how you can tweak the height of the HB to get it sounding good too. Finally, I think the big thick american standard bridge is a tone killer - especially when you're looking for "twang." You might want to try finding a vintage style 3 saddle bridge that will fit your guitar... Mike

November 23rd, 2005, 09:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
TELECASTERbstrd Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hill Country TEXAS Posts: 748	Sounds like it's the amp. I tried a Mesa Boogie once...once! It's pretty hard finding the right amp for a good country tone. Add a little compression. I run my tone pot wide open, you're ears are probably not used to that balls to the wall Teleness yet. __________________ Howdy Y'all, most of my stuff pertains to country music. my MySpace Music Hill Country Horseworks

November 23rd, 2005, 12:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,500	The AS bridge pup The AS bridge pup is arguably the worst one of any... Don't shoot me...I am just tell you my opinion Try just about anything else. __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

November 22nd, 2005, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
squeally dan TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 65	THanks for all the info! Thats awesome! Somebody else today told me about the tone knob. I have to admit in playing rock and blues I rarely ever touch the tone control. I just leave it full on. I will definately mess with that. I am doing lots of practicing trying to get my chops in shape. I am thinking a good video might also help with some of the chicken pickin technique.

November 22nd, 2005, 03:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
fezz parka Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 1,283 45 Photos	Chris S. nails it. Also try playing with the volume knob rolled back slightly.

November 22nd, 2005, 04:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
gls500 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 894	Is your cabinet opened or closed back? I find that for a good country tone, an open backed cabinet cuts a lot better. There are a lot of fellow Z users here, so I KNOW it's not the amp ;)

November 22nd, 2005, 04:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
squeally dan TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 65	Thanks for all the help. I'm so glad I found this place! TO answer a couple questions. Both of my cabinets are closed back. As far as the bridge. It came with a more vintage style 3 saddle thing, but It now has a more newer style one that I guy told me would have better intonation. I put the humbucker in it which makes it very versatile, but I am wondering now if I would like it better with the single coil back in the neck. What do you guys think? What model would this tele be? LIke I said I think it was made in'89 but I'm not sure. I bought it used. WHen I got it, it had two single coils, and again it did have a more vintage style bridge. It is the wood finish with black pickguard. Is their a way to find out more about it. Would the serial number help?

November 22nd, 2005, 08:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Grin'n'pick Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sarf Eas' Laandon Posts: 1,952 38 Photos	Absolutely agree about rolling the controls back a bit. Until I played country I never touched 'em and always wondered what those 'real' guitarists were doing with them all the time. Then when the Marshall stack went out of the window (not literally!) I saw the light (or should that be 'heard the sweet spot') and realised they are in fact the center of everything between a good guitar and a sweet clean tube amp. Nobody tells you this at the time though

November 23rd, 2005, 01:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,500	Thanks for not shooting I had the same findings with my 97 tele. I could not adjust it to dial out the problem, or another problem occured. All the other strings were fine. The B and E string sounded like AM radio hiss. Tone was almost inditinguishable. Try an MIJ, or an OV, or just about any other pickup, and you will be happier. Just make sure it is wound in the 6's or 7's. __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

November 23rd, 2005, 02:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bill Hullett Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Tn. Posts: 1,217	S.D. Hi.... If it were me.....I'd put the original bridge back on.....I'd then get a set of Glendale saddles , (That will make it intonate well) Then i would get a nice compressor (Dyna comp will work great....a Keeley will be even better) and a delay pedal (your favorite here) adjust the delay at apx 200 ms and put it to were it only represents about 30% of your signal.....that will get you very Nashville sounding......... Bill Hullett

November 23rd, 2005, 02:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,500	There is your answer I respect Bill's opinion more than anyone else's...anywhere. Period. __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

November 23rd, 2005, 02:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,500	Bill Bill, I just want to say that I am still in awe when I go back to pick up some of your old Radney Foster licks. __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

November 23rd, 2005, 03:12 PM	#17 (permalink)
Stan Martin Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Pepperell Posts: 810	also light strings i.e. 9's. for the James Burton,Clarence White, Albert Lee, Brent Mason country twang. Heavier strings are great and intonate better, but you don't get the cluck nearly as much. Plus with a lighter gauge you can perform some great faux steel bends lightning quick.

November 26th, 2005, 04:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
squeally dan TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 65	Thanks for all the ideas. It sounds like I need a compressor. Also, does anyone use a volume pedal much. I know you could just as well use the volume knob, but it seems like a voulme pedal might help in getting some pedal steel sounding licks.

November 26th, 2005, 07:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ed Bickert Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cape Cod, MA Age: 40 Posts: 946	The Mesa Cab I used a Mesa cab (Polytone head) for years to get a nice, rich, dark, warm tone. The Mesa cab is open back, but for whatever reason it's very warm. I went to see Pat Martino last year and he actually used a Clarus 1R head with two large Mesa cabs. I personally think a cab has a lot of influence on your sound. Not sure if it would help, just figured I'd offer my two cents. Also, if you're mechanically inclined you might consider putting a splitter for the HB or possibly replacing it with a single coil just to get the signature twang back. __________________ Sorry, not the real Ed Bickert. Just a fan.

December 1st, 2005, 05:05 PM	#21 (permalink)
TELECASTERbstrd Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hill Country TEXAS Posts: 748	That's a very common problem in some Tele's. The rethym is muddy to start with on many stock pu's especially m/cij's. I like the sound of the Fender TX Special neck pu's and I hear Dimarzio (I think the Twang King model) makes some affordable replacements. Other than that it's rollin'the tone knob. __________________ Howdy Y'all, most of my stuff pertains to country music. my MySpace Music Hill Country Horseworks

December 1st, 2005, 07:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
Teleman Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Plainville, CT Posts: 393	I play through a Dr Z MaZ 18 jr. In additon to what has been mentioned here al ready, use the cut control on the amp to dial in the tlee tone you desire. Works for me!

December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 PM	#23 (permalink)
Darrell Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 48 Posts: 2,500	If you are If you are playing straight through a song, bouncing from lead to rythym, and back, you are adjusting the tone knob accordingly, back and forth, throughout... That is what I have seen from tele players live. __________________ "Yeap, I like the American Standard Telecaster, I can even live with one a them PCB amps, and I even use one a them mul-tie-effects things too."

December 3rd, 2005, 08:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
eggman Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bossier City,La. Posts: 1,165	Equipment is secondary to ability Squeally Dan, BTW, you've got one cool screen name! I'm a 3rd rate C&W picker. I've had compliments about my tone (sometimes from some people) when using a Strat through a solid-state Crate! Well, maybe not compliments from veteran guitarists Get a Tele with medium to vintage output p/u's. IMHO the type of bridge isn't that important. Am. Std, or vintage style both have advantages, I prefer vintage. Use a tube amp with some headroom; A Fender Twin being arguably the most desireable. Listen to Don Rich (Those old Buck Owens single are a treasure!), Roy Nichols, The DeRailers and Jerry Reed, et al. LISTEN to these guys. Then, get some lessons. If you know how to play with a thumb-pick, you are already halfway there. Being a flat-picker is OK, too. If you've got the desire, nobody can stop you. Good luck! As usual, YMMV. Eggman