Changed strings, adjust neck, or adjust bridge?

[aehn]

Bought a beautiful flame top telebration

Put on some 0,10's, and the string action became too high, what should I do, adjust the neck, or adjust the bridge?

My initial thought would be to adjust the neck, because by putting on thicker strings, it is the neck that needs to be adjusted, not the bridge.

On the other hand, it seems like, adjusting the bridge would be easier, but it will probably not be as satisfactory, cause the neck would still be kinda concave, right?

[Donelson]

If you have to ask that question, then just take that axe to a luthier shop & have it set up. Cost: very little. Most or all of these guys are happy to explain what they are doing, or have done. A few minutes with a pro will teach you tons, and you will have a better grasp for the future.

Probably, three areas need tweaking: truss rod, bridge height, and nut slot height/depth.

No benefit to DYI until you understand what's needed, and have some skills.

Good luck!

[Telepi]

Do you have a 3 barrel bridge? What guage are you changing from?

I went from 10's to 9's on mine and the action became too low
for the slinkyness. I raised the bridge barrels a bit and all is good.

If you're going the opposite direction, then I'd say lowering the saddles
will help.

[Toriginal]

Originally Posted by Donelson

If you have to ask that question, then just take that axe to a luthier shop & have it set up. Cost: very little. Most or all of these guys are happy to explain what they are doing, or have done. A few minutes with a pro will teach you tons, and you will have a better grasp for the future.

Probably, three areas need tweaking: truss rod, bridge height, and nut slot height/depth.

No benefit to DYI until you understand what's needed, and have some skills.

Good luck!

Personally I would not adjust a truss rod without a high quality straight edge such as the one from Stewart Macdonald:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/St...xst=3&xsr=2029

As some of the knowledgable folks here have stated many times and even on the instruction sheet shipped with my new Fender. You adjust the truss rod until the board is perfectly flat when it is in tune. Start by checking it with a straight edge. There are some really bad straight edges out there so don't be cheap on this procurement.
Then get the neck flat which it obviously in now not with the 9s if all you changed is strings.
If it is new, it probably needs all the adjustments altered a bit.
A luthier (Perhaps Fender certified or someone well spopken of by other guitarists) is probably a better bet for you right now. Get some old beater for 50 bucks and learn the ins and outs on that rather than ruin the nut on your new one or something. Or build one and learn it all right here on TDPRI.
Personally, I would never put allen key to truss rod without using a straightedge. You want it flat before you adjust string heights at the bridge and nut. If the guitar is new, it may require slight adjustments of the truss rod for a week or two anyway due to the truss rod sinking into the wood a bit and the parts all generally getting to know one another. If the luthier does it all in one day, you will probably need another tune up a few (days) or weeks later to finish it off. I go real slow on hut slots bringing them down to taste very gradually with lots of measuring. Go slow. Learn first.
AM I wrong? It sure works for me.


I'd love to see a pic of your new guitar just cuz it sounds pretty nice.

[fatcat]

To answer to the original question, by the O.P.

yes

so do what Donelson said.

[czook]

If DIY, get a good straight edge like advised above.

You can use the low e string as a straight edge too. press at fret 1 and at fret 17, Tap the string between the 1 and 17. If it clicks more than barely you may need to straighten neck with the truss rod before proceeding.

You could adjust bridge only to the point you get string buzz if you don't want to mess with the neck, but you will still have higher action than is possible with a truss rod adjustment and bridge adjustment.

Lots of youtube and tutorials on this site.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by aehn

Bought a beautiful flame top telebration

Put on some 0,10's, and the string action became too high, what should I do, adjust the neck, or adjust the bridge?

My initial thought would be to adjust the neck, because by putting on thicker strings, it is the neck that needs to be adjusted, not the bridge.

On the other hand, it seems like, adjusting the bridge would be easier, but it will probably not be as satisfactory, cause the neck would still be kinda concave, right?

I think changing the string guage (9-42s to 10-46s) makes a small enough change, you can play it as is or just adjust the saddles slightly and see what that does.

If the relief needs changing and a flatter board seems necessary after the string change, that just means the board had a bit too much relief even before the strings got changed.

You are far less likely to mess up the guitar, changing the saddles' height, than you can playing with the relief. Donelson is right in that if you fool with the truss rod, you need to have studied how it works and actually appreciate what is going on. But I would wager that I change saddle heights FIFTY times for every once I adjust the neck relief.

I want you to check the fit of the nut slots. If the strings are now binding in the slots, THEN go to a guitar tech and fix that issue. (let him change the relief while he's got the guitar). If not, just play it as is or lower the saddles a tiny bit. You'll have plenty of opportunities to take your guitar in and drop a lot of money, you needn't be overly in a hurry to make that trip.

[JohnK24]

Originally Posted by Donelson

If you have to ask that question, then just take that axe to a luthier shop & have it set up. Cost: very little. Most or all of these guys are happy to explain what they are doing, or have done. A few minutes with a pro will teach you tons, and you will have a better grasp for the future.

Probably, three areas need tweaking: truss rod, bridge height, and nut slot height/depth.

No benefit to DYI until you understand what's needed, and have some skills.

Good luck!

Agreed, if I had just bought a $1K plus tele, I would take it to a good luthier for a setup...just my two cents.

[aehn]

Originally Posted by Donelson

If you have to ask that question, then just take that axe to a luthier shop & have it set up.

Yeah, I did not plan to do it myself. I just wanted to know, want I wanted him to do.

Had it been the bridge, I would have tried it myself, but adjusting the neck I would not do myself.

[aehn]

Originally Posted by Telepi

Do you have a 3 barrel bridge? What guage are you changing from?

I went from 10's to 9's on mine and the action became too low
for the slinkyness. I raised the bridge barrels a bit and all is good.

If you're going the opposite direction, then I'd say lowering the saddles
will help.

Nope, it does not have the classic T bridge, if that is what you mean.
Changed from 009 to 010.

I think it would be more critical to change from a lower tension to a higher, as it seems to me, like it would have a greater effect on the neck.

[aehn]

Originally Posted by Toriginal

Personally I would not adjust a truss rod without a high quality straight edge such as the one from Stewart Macdonald:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/St...xst=3&xsr=2029

Thanks for the advice, I did not actually plan to adjust the neck myself, as I have always thought it should be done by some professional.

However, I did bring the guitar back to were I bought it, and told them that the action was too high when I changed the strings, and that I wanted someone help me adjust the neck.

So their co called technician grabbed the guitar, looked at the neck, and said, ok, I´ll fix it, used the wrench, looked at it again, all in all, it took like five minutes.

I brought it back home, and it is indeed much better, but I probably would want him to adjust it a little more, and now, by reading a little bit about adjust the neck, it seems like he should have been more precise. I don´t think he used any capo, or any straight edge, or anything, just his eyes.

I might buy one of those straight edges, and try to adjust it myself, however, the thought of me doing it, hmm, I dont trust myself and my skills with hands, except when it comes to playing.


Well, I will play it for a few days, and see what happens.

Originally Posted by Toriginal

I'd love to see a pic of your new guitar just cuz it sounds pretty nice.

If I take any pictures (and I probably will), I will upload it here.

Thanks for your advice man!

[aehn]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I think changing the string guage (9-42s to 10-46s) makes a small enough change,

Yeah, I have never had any problems changing from 009 to 010 on my other teles.

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

If the relief needs changing and a flatter board seems necessary after the string change, that just means the board had a bit too much relief even before the strings got changed.

Yes, I think it was probably like that before as well, but because it was only 009´s I did not notice the high action.

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I want you to check the fit of the nut slots. If the strings are now binding in the slots, THEN go to a guitar tech and fix that issue. (let him change the relief while he's got the guitar).

You mean there could be a problem with the nut? That the nut is not correctly made?

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by aehn

Thanks for the advice, I did not actually plan to adjust the neck myself, as I have always thought it should be done by some professional.

However, I did bring the guitar back to were I bought it, and told them that the action was too high when I changed the strings, and that I wanted someone help me adjust the neck.

So their co called technician grabbed the guitar, looked at the neck, and said, ok, I´ll fix it, used the wrench, looked at it again, all in all, it took like five minutes.

I brought it back home, and it is indeed much better, but I probably would want him to adjust it a little more, and now, by reading a little bit about adjust the neck, it seems like he should have been more precise. I don´t think he used any capo, or any straight edge, or anything, just his eyes.

I might buy one of those straight edges, and try to adjust it myself, however, the thought of me doing it, hmm, I dont trust myself and my skills with hands, except when it comes to playing.


Well, I will play it for a few days, and see what happens.



If I take any pictures (and I probably will), I will upload it here.

Thanks for your advice man!

FWIW that was probably a bit abrupt and lacking in precision but it fits with the fact that the neck relief wasn't right to begin with and that had nothing to do with changing the string gauge. It needed adjusting anyway which is the first thing you should look at when doing a set up.

Get that right so that guitar plays as it should up and down the neck then begin adjusting your saddles to get the string height you prefer. If the neck relief is good then adjusting your saddle height when changing string gauges is all you should need to do unless it's a big change. Even then the relief should only require a minor tweak.

I think Boris said it best. Nine out of ten times adjusting the saddles will solve your problem with string height itself as long as the relief is correct to begin with.

[Donelson]

Originally Posted by aehn

So their co called technician grabbed the guitar, looked at the neck, and said, ok, I´ll fix it, used the wrench, looked at it again, all in all, it took like five minutes. . . . it seems like he should have been more precise. I don´t think he used any capo, or any straight edge, or anything, just his eyes.

Glad you didn't take offense at my first response, as it was probably overly blunt. Hope you feel the same for this one: That IS how you set the truss rod, or at least tweak it; what that guy did. This requires experience & skill, I guess; but, using straightedge, calipers, feeler gauges, etc., is not needed at all, except for some "by the book" setup, like for a just-built axe.

There has to be a gap, called relief, under the strings in the middle register. How much is needed is subjective & also depends upon your style of play, and how much tolerance for fret buzz/rattle you have. There is no chance of damaging your guitar by experimenting with this relief amount, unless you have some kind of damaged neck. Most guitarists I know, including myself, carry a truss rod wrench around always, to tweak that when it doesn't "feel" right. Just something you need to do once in a while. Usually just a little turn in either direction makes a big difference in the feel, that probably can't be measured with a tool!

Once again, good luck!

[AJBaker]

I also don't need a straightedge either. Basically it's very easy once you get used to it. With your guitar tuned normally and the neck settled from the string change:
1) capo at first fret, or use your finger.
2) fret around the 15th fret or so
3) look at the gap between the string and the the 8th fret or so.
The gap should be somewhere between a hair and a millimetre. I try to keep the gap small if I can. Loosening (counter clockwise turn) makes the gap bigger.
Before tightening, loosen it a bit first to feel if it's already tightened all the way.
Adjustments take some time to take effect, so take plenty of time between adjustments, let it settle.

[Phelonious Ponk]

Not sure I get all this fear of truss rod. You carry the straight edge -- the low e string. Got no relief? 1/4 turn counter clockwise. Got too much? 1/4 turn clockwise. Repeat till it's right. And if you're adjusting elsewhere, once the guitar has been set up, you're probably doing the wrong thing. Heat, humidity, string tension all effect relief. They don't tun saddle screws or re-cut nut slots...

P

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by aehn

You mean there could be a problem with the nut? That the nut is not correctly made?

Well, the nuts slots from the factory are left a wee bit high/imprecise and if I were to find a really skilled tech, I'd probably want him filing the nut slots perfect for my intended use.

See, the guys at the factory who make the nuts have no way of knowing which potential customer a specific guitar will go to. So, they always leave a little extra material, and for really sweet function, the end user often will want to custom tweak the nut slots for optimal playability. Their own personal setup preferences. However, the hurry-up guy who turned the truss rod nut on your neck probably was not the guy you want doing this procedure. But you can play it as is; this nut is "correct" and is not broken and does not need replacement. It is not a "place holder" as it is on some Squier guitars. It could however be honed a little. Find the right person to do it though, before getting it looked at.

When you see how uninvolved the worker was in adjusting your guitar, should make you want to get involved and do it yourself. You have the personal connection, you have the passion for the guitar. All they have is sometimes some experience. In a way, you're better "qualified" than some employee, UNLESS they have the passion, and have real insight into guitar making and so forth. You have a really nice guitar, now you need either a tech worthy of the guitar or you need to build your own skills sets.

Hey!

When do we get to see pictures of your new guitar?

[94bamf]

Originally Posted by aehn

So their co called technician grabbed the guitar, looked at the neck, and said, ok, I´ll fix it, used the wrench, looked at it again, all in all, it took like five minutes.

I brought it back home, and it is indeed much better, but I probably would want him to adjust it a little more, and now, by reading a little bit about adjust the neck, it seems like he should have been more precise. I don´t think he used any capo, or any straight edge, or anything, just his eyes.

I might buy one of those straight edges, and try to adjust it myself, however, the thought of me doing it, hmm, I dont trust myself and my skills with hands, except when it comes to playing.


Well, I will play it for a few days, and see what happens.



If I take any pictures (and I probably will), I will upload it here.

Thanks for your advice man!

You don't need a straight edge or a capo to adjust the neck relief. The strings on the guitar work just fine for that. A tech is less likely to take the chance of adjusting the action too low, because you can run into other problems with buzzing/fretting out etc..

[gypsymoth]

as pointed out by others, the strings are an excellent straight edge; AJBaker's instructions are pretty straightforward.

if a beginner limits themself to 1/4 turn, there really is no reason not to learn this simple task.

[aehn]

Originally Posted by soulman969

I think Boris said it best. Nine out of ten times adjusting the saddles will solve your problem with string height itself as long as the relief is correct to begin with.

Yeah, I might try to adjust the saddles a little now when the neck is adjusted.

The string height is much better now, but, I notice some slight buzzing now on certain frets, and I actually still want to get the action down a bit, especially on some higher frets.

To me, that sounds like the neck still needs some adjustments?