Question about "Blackguard" Teles

[TRogers2281]

What did they look like straight off the line, back in the 50's? Is the '52 RI an accurate representation of a brand spankin' new 50's Telecaster? If not, are there any photos of something that is?

This has been on my mindgrapes, hope I can get a nice, long explanation.

[Telemarkman]

The original color "Blonde", was similar to the background color of this site. Some were very transparent, showing a lot of grain, while others were almost opaque.

The '52 RI is a close replica, but not identical - especially when it comes to the finish/color. It is meant to replicate the color of an early 50's Blackguard that's faded to what we now call Butterscotch Blonde.

Besides the '52 RI has a coat of Polyurethane underneath the Nitro top coat, while the originals had only Nitro as a color/top coat.

[wahscoot]

Is that the case with Fender nitro finish guitars? With the exception of custom shop?

[Telemarkman]

Except for the Thin Skins.

[TeleToTheRain]

plus the neck wouldn't have originally been tinted as far as I know. I'd like to see a pic as well. I have a great book on Strats with some early full color advertising shots, but haven't seen much by way of Teles from that era.

On a similar note... isn't it weird how we often associate certain characteristics with age. I remember the first time I smelled the pages of an old book my grandparents had and thought it must have always been like that. Recently I picked up some of my oldest GW magazines (circa 95') and what do you know... tab pages are yellowed and starting to smell old. Ok, not sure why I went there, sorry, it's way too late, goodnight all.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by TeleToTheRain

plus the neck wouldn't have originally been tinted as far as I know. I'd like to see a pic as well.

The necks weren't tinted, but the lacquer yellowed considerably over time.
And as I said, the '52 RI is meant to replicate a faded/yellowed/ambered finish color.
Some of the old ones are still quite light in color (speaking of the bodies), while others are a deep orange tone, so there's no right or wrong color actually.

Do a google search, and you'll probably find lots of pics of original Blackguards.

[vanguard]

the custom shop NOS nocaster is the closest thing fender makes, including color-wise, to an original blackguard. it came in two colors, the original shade was probably right between the two. notice the non-tinted maple necks as well. also, IMO, i've never seen an original blackguard with as much grain showing as a '52ri - another point the CS got right with the nocaster:

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by vanguard

the custom shop NOS nocaster is the closest thing fender makes, including color-wise, to an original blackguard. it came in two colors, the original shade was probably right between the two. notice the non-tinted maple necks as well. also, IMO, i've never seen an original blackguard with as much grain showing as a '52ri - another point the CS got right with the nocaster.

The CS '51 Nocaster has the correct finish for a 1951/52 Blackguard (even if they also varied to some degree), but many of the 1950's Broadcasters had a very transparent finish with much grain showing.

One thing that's not correct on the CS Nocaster though, is the neck - it's much too big for a 1951 Nocaster. The '52 RI neck is much closer in specs to an original 1952 Tele. I base these statements on measurements given in Nacho's "Blackguard" book.

Also my '52 RI doesn't show much grain - that's why I chose exactly that specimen.

[H. Mac]

[QUOTE=Telemarkman;4313913]The necks weren't tinted, but the lacquer yellowed considerably over time. QUOTE]

A factor that's difficult to understand today is the prevalance and impact of cigarette smoke. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, and even into the 80s, smoking was common and was rarely prohibited anywhere.

Lacquer yellows with age as Telemarkman says, but prolonged exposure to cigarette smoke also has pronounced effects on coloration.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by H. Mac

Lacquer yellows with age as Telemarkman says, but prolonged exposure to cigarette smoke also has pronounced effects on coloration.

You bet!

[Ronkirn]

If you examine real examples of the teles made in the 50's you will see where arm wear has abraded through the "clear coat" the underlying color coat is still an "eggshell white"… it's the clear that turns amber due to UV light, crud in the air, and just because that what it will do sitting in a can, minding it's on business…. guess it gets bored, and has to find something to do… That is what gives them the color many think of today.

It's very similar to the beige computer cases of the 90's … find a collection of ;em and you will see the exposed surfaces have turned a sick green-amber- crap color…. those in areas subjected to a lot of pollutants are "sicker" looking to those in "environmentally" cleaner areas, but they all have discolored to some extent… same with nitro lacquer….

Ron Kirn

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

and just because that what it will do sitting in a can, minding it's on business…. guess it gets bored, and has to find something to do… That is what gives them the color many think of today.

Ron Kirn

I've never really thought of it that way ...

[H. Mac]

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

The original color "Blonde", was similar to the background color of this site.

Yep. And one of the really impressive things about Nacho's Blackguard book is the closeup photos of those early Teles with the pickguards or control plates removed. The difference between the exposed portions of the finish, and the portions that were protected is really amazing. As Telemarkman says, the original color is pretty close to the TDPRI backgound color.

And Ron's point about UV light, well, I remember the local Mom and Pop music shop discounting a new guitar that had a portion of the top "sun-aged" by being hung in the display window. About half of the top was darker than the exposed half.

[Shepherd]

Here's a 52 and a 54.

[Mark Davis]

Here is a 52 with the pickguard off. They were a white blond that faded to the butterscoth.

[Stratty]

These pictures blow my mind, I had no idea they were so white, especially since that butterscotch has always been what I've perceived as an origional Tele. Cool thread.

[Chris S.]

Have a look at some Heywood-Wakefield furniture from the 50s. Anyone who lived during that era will remember this blonde color, on everything from dining room tables to school chairs. The original Broadcasters/Telecasters were very much in line with the styles of the day. CS

[Mark Davis]

The nitro they used back then didnt have anything in it to protect it from UV rays.

SO the clear coat faded real quick making that sorta butterscotch color.

52ri's are painted to simulate the color they faded to.

[TRogers2281]

so is there any place that sells that particular blonde color? Or that lacquer that will yellow over time? Cause I'm thinking of building a "NOS" Blackguard, and just letting the aging come naturally

[H. Mac]

Like Chris S. said:

Have a look at some Heywood-Wakefield furniture from the 50s. Anyone who lived during that era will remember this blonde color, on everything from dining room tables to school chairs.

Even Gibson got on the blonde band wagon: