Thinline F holes--do they do anything?

[NeckP90]

Would a tele thinline sound the slightest bit different if it didn't have the f holes? Or any other semi or hollow body for that matter? Just musing!

[mad dog]

Neck:

I have a '69 RI thinline, ash body, with the F hole mentioned. Also a partscaster with a chamber ash body, spruce top, no F hole. And another partscaster with a solid ash body. All very different tonally. The chambered guitar has a wonderful acoustic sound, a certain amount of crisp, archtop kind of edge to the sound amped up. Very clear and balanced, wonderful, lively overdrive when you push it. The thinline appears to be tonally voiced by that F hole and chamber, but not as obviously, not as easy to describe. More emphasis on the bass, not quite as clear sounding. But it too has a beautiful overdrive sound.

Both of those guitars lack the dense punch you get from solids. I suspect the thinline would sound different if it was chambered only, no F hole, and certainly different if it was chambered in a different way. Guessing the chambering is more important tonally than the F hole, no way to confirm that.
MD

[Frontier9]

I have one. If I filled in the f hole would it sound different amplified?
I doubt it very much.

[JonathanVL]

I have a JA-90 telecaster, chambered, f-hole.

I wouldn't know the difference with a chambered closed body, because i never played one that i can remember.

But the one thing that i really like about hollows and chambered/f-hole guitars are the feel of your guitar resonating against your belly :D
You don't know what an open E chord sounds like if you haven't felt it..

[NeckP90]

Interesting. My only experience with hollow or semihollows is my cheap Epiphone Casino which, despite having quite ballsy aftermarket P90s (Bare Knuckle special winds) is still very dark and mellow. And certainly a 335 sounds quite different to a Les Paul with identical pickups and wiring. But Thinlines sound identical to ordinary Teles to me -- in the sense that you can get a huge variation in the sound of teles without throwing chambers and f holes into the equation. So I wonder if the effect of a small amount of chambering/f holes is very marginal on a small body like a tele? I suppose the only scientific way to test would be to take a solid one, record it, route out the chambers and F hole, put it back together, listen again. See if it sounds markedly different?

[Ronkirn]

Would a tele thinline sound the slightest bit different if it didn't have the f holes?

Anything. . . . ANYTHING you do to a guitar will alter the sound…. the only real question should be, To what extent…?

the vast majority of "stuff" discussed as altering the sound, do so, but at such a diminutive level so as to be undetectable by all, but a few very sophisticated acoustic labs..

Just because someone thinks they hear a difference, only means, they THINK they hear a difference… that difference, real or imagined can fall into only one of three categories… Good, Bad, or. . . Crap, that was a lotta work for nuthin'… but . . . it's that gamble we may hit on the "Good" that keeps us searching .. and that's the fun..

Ron Kirn..

[Controller]

I think it makes a difference on mine at low volumes.

At higher volumes it seems to be insignificant.

[Boyd]

I think it makes a difference, although probably subtle for the listener. But as JonathanVL says, you can feel the difference when you play it. I enjoy practicing without an amplifier and there's a huge difference in sound between the solid and thinline when unplugged.

I had an original 72 thinline 40 years ago but sold it long ago. Just now getting back into the guitar, and traded in my MIM 2003 solid body telecaster for a MIM 72 thinline RI. Makes a big difference to me personally.

[nadzab]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Crap, that was a lotta work for nuthin'…

Been there...

[NeckP90]

I think it makes a difference on mine at low volumes.

At higher volumes it seems to be insignificant.

Presumably this is simply because you can hear a little of the acoustic sound along with the amplified sound?

Ron, very interesting reply. What do you think impacts most on a tele's sound, then? Changing pickups, perhaps?

[Ronkirn]

What do you think impacts most on a tele's sound, then?

Practice. . . real practice, the amp, the room, the pickups, everything else… in that order… with, perhaps the room and the amp in a tie for second…

few realize that if they gave the acoustic signature of the room they usually use to determine the sound quality of their gear any where near as much thought they give the paint on the guitar, it would do wonders for the sound quality… But Noooooo…


Most of those rooms are a spare, with sheet rock (sux acoustically) or paneling (makes sucky sheetrock seem like an acoustic godsend) on the walls, then wonder why their guitar sounds bad in some areas….

What was it Buffalo Springfield that sang, "Myopia tracks deep, into your mind it will creep…"

If ya want great sound, ya gotta think globaly…. you're not gonna get it with a handful of overhyped new junk screwed and/or soldered to your guitar...

rk

[hongaku]

Yes, it does affect the tone both plugged and unplugged.

[Phelonious Ponk]

I have a chambered (no hole) G&L. It is more responsive acoustically than any solid-body electric I've had. Amplified it responds just like any solid body does. I almost agree with Ron. All this stuff is picking nits. Ever practice tone? Spend hours figuring out how to control the tone of the attack, sustain and decay of your guitar with your hands? With different picks? With nails and/or flesh? No effects, no OD...no amp even?

There's your tone.

Next up? The amp. I like to know what I'm going to get, so I've used nothing but Deluxe Reverbs with vintage-style speakers (Webers) for years. They work for me. Work out what works for you, long before you think about upgrading bridges or sweat the tonal advantages of nitro.

Ron loses me there. I think pickups, picks, strings are more important than the room. Why? Because I don't control the room. Some of them suck, some don't. I do, however, control the position of my amp, and I try to make sure it is pointed at my ears on its way into the room, so I'm hearing a lot more amp than I am room. That doesn't help the audience, but as the room fills up, reflection problems diminish. But all this stuff about brass and steel and paint and the heft of the neck's impact on tone? Mostly imagination and what little is real is gone as soon as you plug in and start to play.

P

[Cunamara]

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk

I But all this stuff about brass and steel and paint and the heft of the neck's impact on tone? Mostly imagination and what little is real is gone as soon as you plug in and start to play.

P

Well, it's there in your living room. But once there are drums and cymbal wash and a bassist and whatever else is in your band, those difference get totally lost. I play with my jazz quintet using my Tele, a partscaster with a humbucker in the neck position, an Ibanez GB10 and a carvetop with a KA floater. On gig tapes I often can't tell which instrument I was playing. I sound like me no mater which instrument I am playing... Dang!

[The String King]

If it made no difference, they wouldn't still put them on electric violins.

I prefer playing them, the smooth crisp tone with lots of sustain. Although a lot of that is the pickups in mine, I must admit.

[jefrs]

If a semi has a solid centre then the f-holes do, not a lot. They're for show.

However if it is hollow like a jazzbox then the holes are there to allow the soundboard to move, to vibrate and thus produce sound, they are not there to "let the sound out".

[musicalmartin]

Frankly plugged in ,very little .Not enough to bother about or that a small amp adjustment wouldnt cure but unplugged my Fender Japan ash thinline is quite loud warm and sweet and very toneful,good enough to practice and still get a good tone spread.No muted bottom strings,almost a mini acoustic .Of course I could say plugged in it gives a more hollow resonant sound but it would be bollox ,but its also lighter than a solid one which can be very useful for old farts like me.

[Phelonious Ponk]

Originally Posted by musicalmartin

Frankly plugged in ,very little .Not enough to bother about or that a small amp adjustment wouldnt cure but unplugged my Fender Japan ash thinline is quite loud warm and sweet and very toneful,good enough to practice and still get a good tone spread.No muted bottom strings,almost a mini acoustic .Of course I could say plugged in it gives a more hollow resonant sound but it would be bollox ,but its also lighter than a solid one which can be very useful for old farts like me.

Yep. My chambered G&L is all mahogany. If it were a solid mahogany plank it would weigh in like a Les Paul. Not a bad thing, but not my first choice.

P

[Phelonious Ponk]

Originally Posted by Cunamara

Well, it's there in your living room. But once there are drums and cymbal wash and a bassist and whatever else is in your band, those difference get totally lost. I play with my jazz quintet using my Tele, a partscaster with a humbucker in the neck position, an Ibanez GB10 and a carvetop with a KA floater. On gig tapes I often can't tell which instrument I was playing. I sound like me no mater which instrument I am playing... Dang!

Even in your living room, even unplugged, I think audible differences from things like finish and the thickness of a neck are dubious at best. Possible? Sure. Can people identify it and say this sustain, or that resonance, or that crisp attack is due to finish or a chunky neck? They can imagine it and sometimes that's good enough.

Play the guitar that feels and sounds right to you. If it doesn't sound quite like you want, but feels great, identify the gap. It can probably be addressed with pickups, strings, picks or technique. You won't get enough tonal change out of a neck to mean squat. Unless you imagine it, in which case, enjoy.

P

[Frontier9]

Originally Posted by musicalmartin

Frankly plugged in ,very little .Not enough to bother about or that a small amp adjustment wouldnt cure but unplugged my Fender Japan ash thinline is quite loud warm and sweet and very toneful,good enough to practice and still get a good tone spread.No muted bottom strings,almost a mini acoustic .Of course I could say plugged in it gives a more hollow resonant sound but it would be bollox ,but its also lighter than a solid one which can be very useful for old farts like me.

I have to agree that a thinline is the perfect practice guitar for playing unplugged. Good balance of highs & lows and the perfect volume - responds well to different playing techniques, too.