TONESHAPER by ACME..... PROBLEM ?

[stan]

anyone having this same problem?

i recently installed a toneshaper on my Tele with 2 pickups, i have the 4 way switching option.

my query is that between position 2 & 3 on the 4way switch sometimes called the in-between, i get complete silence, nothing, not hum, just a dead guitar,

i have no problems with all the other in-betweens positions on the 4way,

anyone else have this issue between 2 & 3with the toneshaper that they can check for me,

here are my positions according to the install instructions;

position;
1 bridge
2 bridge & neck parallel
3 bridge & neck series
4 neck

thanks in advance to everyone who chooses to help me out, i'm just trying to confirm if i have a defective component somewhere,
cheers

[gwjensen]

I have a tone shaper and had a similar problem. Turned out I hadn't wired it correctly. Thats probably the issue in your case.

[stan]

Originally Posted by gwjensen

I have a tone shaper and had a similar problem. Turned out I hadn't wired it correctly. Thats probably the issue in your case.

thanks for reply gwjensen, did you have a tele with 2 single coil pups and 4 way switching as well?

if so do you recall if your problem was exactly like mine?

[t-ray]

I bought the five-way switching for my tele with a HB at the neck. Could not get position 5 to work properly. I tried EVERY possible combination of wiring. The guys that sold me the unit were very helpful in trying to solve the problem (I have lots of emails), but it turned out that my unit was defective. They ultimately replaced it free of charge and it works great.

[stan]

sounds like your having better luck than i am t-ray,

my emails are being ignored at this point,

doesn't appear this company has good customer service :<(

[gwjensen]

Originally Posted by stan

thanks for reply gwjensen, did you have a tele with 2 single coil pups and 4 way switching as well?

if so do you recall if your problem was exactly like mine?

I have a different set up from yours - neck humbucker with a coil split, so 5 positions:

1) bridge
2) bridge and split humbucker
3) bridge and full humbucker
4) split humbucker
5) humbucker

Until I wired it right, I was only getting 1, 3 and 5.

[stan]

Originally Posted by gwjensen

I have a different set up from yours - neck humbucker with a coil split, so 5 positions:

1) bridge
2) bridge and split humbucker
3) bridge and full humbucker
4) split humbucker
5) humbucker

Until I wired it right, I was only getting 1, 3 and 5.

thanks for feed back gwjensen and confirming you have a different system
that i do, i've check my wiring so i know it's not that, i suspect either a faulty unit or a unresolved issue with the hardware that's not being addressed! !

[AcmeGuitarWorks]

Stan,

I've sent you 6 emails: three on 6/29; one on 7/2; and two today. Is this unresponsive?

Your first email suggested to me that you hadn't read the manual very carefully; nonetheless I carefully and articulately answered your question. Your response, copied and pasted:

so please tell the the settings for standard as you don't show that one,

also tell me what's wrong, using switch in out of phase position the tone controls volume, and not it just not apparent volume?

???

So it took a few emails back and forth to understand what your second question was about.

It turns out that the problem, apparently, is that if you position the 4-way switch's lever in-between the 2 and 3 positions, the switch cuts out. in other words, it's fine in all four positions, but if you move it to a position in between 2 and 3, it breaks the connection. Your concern (correct me if I'm wrong) is that if you inadvertently miss one of the detented positions, and instead move the lever to a position in between 2 and 3, then you'll have no output.

I stated to you that in nearly 40 years of playing I haven't found this to be a likely occurrence, but that if it bothered you then we would replace the switch. You accepted the offer, so case closed.

Right?

[sjtalon]

Originally Posted by stan

my query is that between position 2 & 3 on the 4way switch sometimes called the in-between, i get complete silence, nothing, not hum, just a dead guitar,

i have no problems with all the other in-betweens positions on the 4way,

Why would you care about that if all the 4 way positions work ? In other words, what is the deal with the in between for you ?

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by AcmeGuitarWorks

Stan,

I've sent you 6 emails: three on 6/29; one on 7/2; and two today. Is this unresponsive?

Your first email suggested to me that you hadn't read the manual very carefully; nonetheless I carefully and articulately answered your question. Your response, copied and pasted:

so please tell the the settings for standard as you don't show that one,

also tell me what's wrong, using switch in out of phase position the tone controls volume, and not it just not apparent volume?

???

So it took a few emails back and forth to understand what your second question was about.

It turns out that the problem, apparently, is that if you position the 4-way switch's lever in-between the 2 and 3 positions, the switch cuts out. in other words, it's fine in all four positions, but if you move it to a position in between 2 and 3, it breaks the connection. Your concern (correct me if I'm wrong) is that if you inadvertently miss one of the detented positions, and instead move the lever to a position in between 2 and 3, then you'll have no output.

I stated to you that in nearly 40 years of playing I haven't found this to be a likely occurrence, but that if it bothered you then we would replace the switch. You accepted the offer, so case closed.

Right?

Never good when a vendor wades in aggressively.

Peter

[electrablue]

Originally Posted by stan

sounds like your having better luck than i am t-ray,

my emails are being ignored at this point,

doesn't appear this company has good customer service :<(

I purchased from them about this time last year and they were prompt to answer all questions I had. Super customer service.

[LarsOS]

Originally Posted by PeterUK

Never good when a vendor wades in aggressively.

I don't know if I'd call this "wading in". After all, the vendor and their product is exactly what is being discussed in this thread.

And aggressively? Stan has told his story, which doesn't paint Toneshaper in a good light. Toneshaper seems to have a very different version of the story. Why should they have to accept Stan's version being the only one on record? I do think vendors should act humbly, not only for the sake of the customer but also for their own sake, but does that mean that they should let everything people say about them go unchallenged?

[stan]

In all fairness to everyone here with interest with this thread, i'm not using the forum to air any type of laundry or imply any malfeasance in public, this line from my original post plainly says it all; "i'm just trying to confirm if i have a defective component somewhere" nothing more nothing less.

i will not post the venders responses i received by email or recount the phone conversations, as it's my belief those communications were made privately on both side with no intent of public viewing.

i will only add this, i've confirmed by a continuity test that the part in question "switch", has continuity at all it's contact points and positions including all in-between positions, therein lines the conundrum.

the vender says a replacement switch will be sent.

i'll stay tuned.

cheers

[Deaf Eddie]

If this is like the Fender 4-way mod: IF you are getting continuity with both lugs when you are between lugs 2 and 3, you are essentially connecting the ground to the hot - and it mutes the guitar. This is normal.

[AcmeGuitarWorks]

DE, you are the man. My main guitar is a Tele, wired with a 4-way but no ToneShaper. After reading your post I pulled it out and it has this "problem" as well. I never noticed this before, and I've wired hundreds of 4-way control plates. Hundreds, and tested every single one of them, and never noticed this. I think this pretty effectively illustrates how unlikely it is that someone will inadvertently manage to get the lever balanced in-between 2 and 3.

Stan, case closed.

[stan]

Originally Posted by AcmeGuitarWorks

DE, you are the man. My main guitar is a Tele, wired with a 4-way but no ToneShaper. After reading your post I pulled it out and it has this "problem" as well. I never noticed this before, and I've wired hundreds of 4-way control plates. Hundreds, and tested every single one of them, and never noticed this. I think this pretty effectively illustrates how unlikely it is that someone will inadvertently manage to get the lever balanced in-between 2 and 3.

Stan, case closed.

Mr. AcmeGuitarWorks, I know you want this matter desperately closed for some reason, as far as I'm concerned this matter is not closed. I've talked to enough folks regarding this point and interestingly your the only one who now, says, this is a inherit problem to Fender 4way switching, up to this point in time, no one else reports this problem to me with Fender 4 way switching.

Seeing you prefer the public forum to emails for communication, I will tell you the following regarding the Toneshaper socket that is soldered to the switch and then attaches to the PCB via a series of pin's on the PCB. Interestingly, if the socket is pulled halfway up on the pins everything works fine in all positions, re-seat the socket all the way back on the pins and problem reasserts itself. So i ask is this a inherit problem with Fender 4 way switching when the Toneshaper is added into the equation as I've described as well?

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by LarsOS

I don't know if I'd call this "wading in". After all, the vendor and their product is exactly what is being discussed in this thread.

And aggressively? Stan has told his story, which doesn't paint Toneshaper in a good light. Toneshaper seems to have a very different version of the story. Why should they have to accept Stan's version being the only one on record? I do think vendors should act humbly, not only for the sake of the customer but also for their own sake, but does that mean that they should let everything people say about them go unchallenged?

I respectfully disagree.

The right way to have handled this matter in a public forum is to suggest that "e-mails might have gone astray" and to offer to speak on the phone (it's only a 5-hour difference for goodness sake) and to get the matter mutually resolved.

As it stands at the moment, Acme hace "closed" the case but the purchaser still has a problem.

Not good customer service.

It's certainly influenced my buying decisions in the future. I used this image earlier this week but it's just as applicable here, only entitled "AcmeGuitarWorks".



Be aware that this thread is now 4th in Google searches for "Acme Toneshaper and 4-way switch" which is not a great place to be if you leave problems unresolved.

Peter

[stan]

Thank You Peter for chiming in, all I want, is this matter resolved via whatever path it takes. I don't need nor want the stress, aggravation or gamesmanship this matter has taken. If I'm wrong or right in end so be it, that is not the point. Work with me in a diplomatic manor to make me feel that what i purchased with my dollars is working as advertised and intended. I don't think i'm asking too much.

[Deaf Eddie]

Not to stick my nose any farther in, but a 4-way switch, wired with the parallel and series throws next to each other in the order of combos, will mute at the "in-between" notch between those two combos. That's simple electronics.

THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THE 4-WAY.

THAT ANSWERS THE ORIGINAL POST, and that should have been that. Apparently it wasn't.

To maintain my cred, I will now "show my work..."

Let's look at a drawing for the two schemes:



The one on the left has the combos in the Fender order (original), the one on the right is the same tones, but in different order. This is a drawing that I drew up for someone else YEARS ago.

In the second scheme (on the right) with the series and parallel combos together, if lugs 2 & 3 have continuity in an "in-between" stop, here's what happens:

The grounded lug 2 on the left pole is has continuity with lug 3 on the left pole, which is in turn jumpered to lug 3 on the right pole.

Lug 3 on the right pole has continuity with lug 2 on the right pole, which goes to the input of the volume pot.

Connecting ground to hot in this manner MUTES the guitar.

If you wire the scheme in the (original) Fender order, you don't have the same connections made, so the guitar doesn't mute - you simply shunt one or the other of the pickups at the in-between points.

SO, the "muting effect" is a product of the ORDER in which the combos are wired on the 4-way. There's no defect in the switch. OP answered.

*******

I don't have any idea about a PCB board or whatever that you mentioned, or how it would be integrated to the pickup selector scheme, but if you have an issue with that, it's a separate issue - an issue that's not causing the "mute" effect.

*******

Now, just an aside...

I cannot respond to your experience with Acme's service and support, but I HAVE bought parts from them in the past, and found their service to be exemplary. Good guys, IMHO.

It seems to me that some posters on this thread have strayed a bit down another path. They're not commenting on the OP's question, nor are they sharing their own experiences with Acme - but have instead decided to comment on their perception of your experience, with opinon rather than personal experience. It's like they're shouting from the crowd, creating a tempest in a teapot. I must say I don't care for that.

[Revv23]

Originally Posted by Deaf Eddie

Not to stick my nose any farther in, but a 4-way switch, wired with the parallel and series throws next to each other in the order of combos, will mute at the "in-between" notch between those two combos. That's simple electronics.

THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THE 4-WAY.

THAT ANSWERS THE ORIGINAL POST, and that should have been that. Apparently it wasn't.

To maintain my cred, I will now "show my work..."

Let's look at a drawing for the two schemes:

The one on the left has the combos in the Fender order (original), the one on the right is the same tones, but in different order. This is a drawing that I drew up for someone else YEARS ago.

In the second scheme (on the right) with the series and parallel combos together, if lugs 2 & 3 have continuity in an "in-between" stop, here's what happens:

The grounded lug 2 on the left pole is has continuity with lug 3 on the left pole, which is in turn jumpered to lug 3 on the right pole.

Lug 3 on the right pole has continuity with lug 2 on the right pole, which goes to the input of the volume pot.

Connecting ground to hot in this manner MUTES the guitar.

If you wire the scheme in the (original) Fender order, you don't have the same connections made, so the guitar doesn't mute - you simply shunt one or the other of the pickups at the in-between points.

SO, the "muting effect" is a product of the ORDER in which the combos are wired on the 4-way. There's no defect in the switch. OP answered.

*******

I don't have any idea about a PCB board or whatever that you mentioned, or how it would be integrated to the pickup selector scheme, but if you have an issue with that, it's a separate issue - an issue that's not causing the "mute" effect.

*******

Now, just an aside...

I cannot respond to your experience with Acme's service and support, but I HAVE bought parts from them in the past, and found their service to be exemplary. Good guys, IMHO.

It seems to me that some posters on this thread have strayed a bit down another path. They're not commenting on the OP's question, nor are they sharing their own experiences with Acme - but have instead decided to comment on their perception of your experience, with opinon rather than personal experience. It's like they're shouting from the crowd, creating a tempest in a teapot. I must say I don't care for that.

+1.