Looking for superlite alder Tele body

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by tcarp

Ron

Your points are certainly valid, but guitar weight comfort zones are an individual preference.

I'm primarily an acoustic player and just a part time electric player. My first Tele was a gorgeous Hwy1 but it was a boat anchor, my guess is that it was close to 9 lbs. I ended up swapping it outright for a much more comfortable 7lb Thinline, and though it's still much heavier than my Rosewood dread, 7 pounds or so for an electric is in my comfort zone. I've since built an alder Tele partscaster in the 7 lb range as well.

The Strat body I pictured will also be in the 7 lb range, but I posted it more to demonstrate that a decent grain can be found on Alder bodies....not as pronounced as Swamp Ash or some of the amazing Pine bodies that you create, but never the less a workable pattern for a trans finish.

Tom

Tom, that's a handsome one and it appears they have a second hardtail Warmoth "S" (I can't call it a Strat, I can't) also in alder and also 3 pounds 15.

Not sure what's going on with their color rendering. To me, this is a more accurate suggestion of what alder looks like in the natural:

[boris bubbanov]

And my comments about the appearance, I should have thought twice about that.

This 3 piece USACG alder body is under 4 pounds, also, now that I think about it:



The wood looked nice, I was just ready to try a solid color.

[Steveareno]

Originally Posted by TheGuitarist

Well you can't compare Paulownia with with Ash.
Ash gives you classic tele sounds with a lot of twang.
Paulownia will not. Much more warmer sound and almost no twang.
By the way a lot of people think Paulownia or Empress is a very cheap wood.
This can be true. There are 7 different species.
And not all of them are suitable for guitar bodys.
Because the wood is too soft and has grown too fast, which will have negative influence on sound.
I've read a lot of posts where people bought very cheap Paulownia bodies from a certain company.
I am sure that these bodies are of lower quality.
In Asia Empress is used for many high quality traditional guitars. And it's not a cheap wood.
It takes at least 40 years for a Paulownia tree to grow to full length and only these trees with a slow growing process have strong wood with light weight.
So this wood is much more expensive than trees which grow in 10 years to full length.

Maybe that's why I like Paulownia: Not much twang and warm tone. I'm trying to be a mellow, swingin', hillbilly, jazz cat....and yeah, I did buy from a "certain company". Not the best fit in the world, and some overhang in the neck pocket...but it was cheap, shipped fast and I'm not fussy. Ash is what Leo used in the 50's so it appeals to me, even with the twang. Nice grain too. Paulownia reminds me of the stuff cheap Ikea furniture is made of (some assembly required...oh boy...looked good on the showroom floor, not so great in a cardboard box).
Swang on,

[Ronkirn]

didn't heavy bodies = 'more resonant' back in the 80s

Not so sure about that one.. back in the 80’s the topic spawning the most irrational thought and the most nonscientific logic was sustain, generally achieved by applying exactly the opposite rationale as those seeking resonance.

Back then the more “mass” the better sustain you had. That was the motivation for mods back then… This is exactly why a Fat neck sounds “better” than a skinny one. It doesn’t actually sound “better” it is actually a bit louder… this is due to the applied physics. But the “ear” perceives subtly louder as “better”… remember that when you’re arguing about whatever the next topic of lunacy arises.

But back to sustain…. It was this “logic” that produced the Floyd Rose and similar “Heavy Metal” bridge concepts… where do ya think the term Heavy Metal came from. The more metal, the less chance of some of the strings valuable energy could be wasted making the wood resonate.

Back then the most common “mod” was to pull the bridge and slap one on there that weighed at least a pound, and several wasn’t uncommon. You could buy a bridge, made of brass, a top loader that literally had at least an inch thick butt to run the strings through…. More mass. More sustain… If you showed up and said. Yo… dudes… check it out….. 6 pounds”…. They’d say…. What?? You mean the bridge, awesome… where do I get mine….?”

The idea was a modern application of Les Paul’s “the Log”.. that whole idea was to isolate the vibrating string from the “wood”. And this is why the Gibby crowd today is still convinced that a neck through is the only way to achieve “tone nirvana”. They have no idea where such came from.

This is a pet peeve of mine, those snooty Gibby dudes don’t realize there are actually very few real Neck thru’s… they are almost all Neck Set…or Set Neck however ya wanna say it…. that’s where the necks heel is stuck in a hole FULL of glue and ya wait for it to dry…. if ya take a Fender neck, stick it in the neck pocket full of glue you gotta neck set guitar… ala the Merle Haggard Top Dog… you just carve away the rough edges and voilà… you gotta set neck guitar… didn’t someone some where suggest glue acts as a tone barrier?? Just askin’ so you Gibby guys can think about it..

Soze anywayze . . . To have a resonant piece of lumber, something has to be available to make it resonate… that something is the vibrating string, primarily, and the acoustic feedback bouncing around the room, to a lesser degree. So the bridge has to “pass” some of the strings vibrations into the body.

When that happens some of the strings energy is dissipated, it’s consumed making the wood wiggle, not making the electrons scoot around and around the magnets. Thus the resulting sound would have a bit less amplitude.

Those guitars, while the notes would sustain into the next week, sounded very austere, almost clinical… no one really cared because everyone was crunching through distortion pedals, compression and a few others FXs available then… resulting in a nice synthesized sound…

Then,.. one day, someone picked up a Tele,,, said. . . I wonder what this sounds like through just 20 watts.. with no “crap” distorting the signal… then cranked out a tune or two, and someone said, “ Hey! Whats, that,… that sounds goooooood…. Sounds kinda “woody ‘n twangy”…. Like it has a personality….. I like that….. but . . . is it painted with Nitr* and here we are today….

Point in alluhthat is…. Sustain from mass, and sonic character from resonance is a compromise…a balance has to be achieved and maintained… who was it that said…. “A guitar is a study in compromises”?

Ron Kirn

[notdave]

Entertaining, informative and iconoclastic as ever Mr K.

Keep it up.

[BillD]

Fender just released a run of "Empress" Telecasters, as part of their "telebration" series, which have Paulownia bodies. I've played a couple and I actually like them. They are running about 6 lbs (no sign of a heavy neck) and are quite resonant. My local shop has two on the floor... a "honeyburst" and a vintage white one. Both feel and sound similar.
Anyone else here seen or played one of these?

[Ronkirn]

Yep they sure have... and interestingly, they're getting their Paulownia from the same "yard" I have been getting mine from since I started using it, 10 years ago.

rk

[TB72]

I always enjoy reading your posts, Ron. Some great information here, as always.

I've played (and owned) many guitars. And my favorites over the years have been all over the map, as far as weight is concerned. There are certain things I've grown to look for in a guitar, but when it comes down to it, the most important factor for me is, "Does this inspire me to play?"

The one instance where weight is a primary consideration for me is for my "airplane guitars". I have a flight case that will fit two guitars in gig bags. And, with the right guitars, this fully loaded case comes in under the weight where they start charging extra (50 lbs in Canada).

Later...

[smallstoner]

The BSB Affinity Tele body is Alder (specifically that color I guess) and I never weighed it, but it is very light. It's also a bit thinner than usual, though. And it's finished of course. But you can probably buy the whole guitar for less than a decent body.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by smallstoner

The BSB Affinity Tele body is Alder (specifically that color I guess) and I never weighed it, but it is very light. It's also a bit thinner than usual, though.

That would be the explanation then, wouldn't it ... ?

It also has a slightly different body shape - more elongated.

[smallstoner]

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

That would be the explanation then, wouldn't it ... ?

It also has a slightly different body shape - more elongated.

Well...yeah.

[TeleKato]

A professor on campus yesterday assigned me to read a book ... The Power of Habit. Now I'm not in a class, mind you ... but good relations with faculty are built by such things. Anyhooo ... this gets me thinking that the light-weight thing, with me at least, may just be habit or influenced by all the chatter.

I don't gig. I am a hobbyist. I sit down to play/practice. If I play for an audience, I'll be sitting down. I do have back issues ... but if you hose your back, you can do it with 6-lbs just as well as with 9-lbs; I was on the ground due to an empty plastic laundry basket once.

Anyway, this thread (and Ron's usual informative comments) gets me thinking about this differently. Not yet sure HOW differently, but I'll read that book and see.

Now if only I can get SWMBO out of the habit of checking on my weight ... and my guitar spending ....

[kenoflife]

hey - just noticed all the posts on my question - thanks!
I did find an UNDER 3.5 lb alder body from Musikraft - kinda unreal that its
so low. Scott there said it was super resonant in tone....he seemed into it...who's to know?

When I got my 52RI I choose from 5 different ones - the one I choose was light,
but not the lightest- because that one had a thin neck. The guitar sounded fabulous acoustically - and I've loved it for years. It weighs 6.75 lbs.

So I was aiming for that weight -as I do notice it a little when I strap on my 7.75 lb strat, moreso with my Heritage 535 (whatever that weighs). Since I don't really know how the guitar is going to be until I piece it together (w/ a USACG RW '53 neck btw) - what the heck? might as well go light, and resonant. -- right?

I hope it works out - part of me still wonders how that 4 lb. USACG body would have been - since maybe alder shouldn't be so light as that ideally or something - different opinions. Maybe I have the holy unavailable grail of such a light alder body - or its gonna not have some kind of bass depth. But for almost the same $ as USACG (a little upcharge each way) I'll have a guitar that's more than a half-pound lighter - so it seemed worth the chance. I'd really rather have both bodies to play with and then compare! But I don't. Now I even wonder if I should have waited for the right alder MJT on-line as I still have to deal w/ finishing the dang thing!

I figure the neck is the most important thing - if it doesn't feel right for me - someone might want a 3.5 lb alder body from Musikraft. Or I could get super-heavy components....or put a Bigsby to balance it off....or.....or....

[Scantron08]

What I want to know is -- Is RK a UF fan, or a UF hater?

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by Scantron08

What I want to know is -- Is RK a UF fan, or a UF hater?

Well, he's a big fan of single malt Scotch at least. (What the heck is a UF?)

[Ron Garson]

A chambered body, filled with helium...

[KevinB]

Originally Posted by Scantron08

What I want to know is -- Is RK a UF fan, or a UF hater?

I believe he's a UF fan, but when the Gators are having a bad year (last year they were 6-6 in the regular season), his avatar gator gets turned upside down

[Ronkirn]

Yep Giant fan of Single Malts, and the Gators...'

but when the Gators are having a bad year (last year they were 6-6 in the regular season), his avatar gator gets turned upside down

got dat right....

Back in the Doug Dickey days, I was a cinematographer for the Doug Dickey show... While at WTLV, I assigned myself covering all the games.... rank has it's privileges, and my Sister teaches at the UF College of Medicine...
r

[TNO]

It might be possible to go too light with swamp ash but with alder lightweight generally seems to be good for tone.

[Ronkirn]

This light weight shi* is getting outta hand.... here's why. .

Different species of wood generally have a specific weight for a specific size of lumber,. It CAN Vary, but usually not a lot… so an Alder body is gonna weigh pretty close the same from one to the next… give er take a few . . . I can plane ‘em thinner, to reduce weight, or rout cavities… but that’s about it…

So, you call order a guitar and say. “I want your lightest piece of whatever.” Bingo,,, the cost just took a giant leap forward…… because…

When we order lumber, we cannot order XXX bf of ALDER, with the caveat… “but I want your lightest pieces”… we just order select Alder… it shows up usually in 8 ft long boards… Fun to wrestle with…

So…us builders may cut it into 16.5 inch sections, the minimum for a Tele, or 18, minimum for a Strat… and save a few for the odd-ball body that occasionally pops up.. But we don’t typically cut it ALL into specific lengths waiting to be weighed for you to pick through… we have other stuff to do than cutting wood into short length to let ‘em sit around., taking up space, as they warp into unusable firewood.

So you want it light weight… we weigh a few of whatever we have, send the weights, and you always ask, “Is that all?” SO now I can lie, and say that’s it, or go take a day cutting more wood blanks, weighing it… etc etc.. that all takes time… and as every MBA knows, Time is Money… in this case, time is YOUR money…

SO you decide on a piece…. Then ask.. Oh, can I see a picture of the grain…. So now, we have to go plane the blanks so YOU can see the grain…. Then comes the question, “Can I see a few more.” And you wind up picking one that is NOT the lightest, but has a grain pattern you like, Even though it gets painted Fiesta Red… (go figure)… completely ignoring our instructions that it gets planed and sanded, so the grain pattern will change somewhat once it is finish sanded and ready for lacquer.

Point is, it’s easy to loose a day or two. Screwing around trying to find quality’s that you wanna see, that change as the body is shaped…you don’t really care about….

Note… Lightweight is only a guarantee that a body weighs less than one that weighs more…. It has nothing to do with tone… except as a roll of the dice,,,, and in fact, light weight more consistently adversely impacts sustain with some level of predictability, than has any predictable impact on tone…

When someone shows up, touting the superiority of “light weight” like they’re some connoisseur of fine “tone wood”… If you see our eyeballs turn white… it’s because we’ve rolled our eyes so far back into our heads we can see the back inside of our skull. While thinking.. Oh boy….here we go again…

If you’re gonna get picky about details, get picky about something that matters, like a neck shape that won’t make your hand start hurting 45 minutes into your 4 hour a day practice session…

rk