Partially 67 Tele. To buy or not to buy?

[Telemach_1]

Hi, I'm at an offer of some guy in town who has this incomplete, partially original 67 Telecaster.
It's a CBS logo maple cap neck w. the correct tuners and w. probably the year correct corresponding oly white body. The bridge plate and none of the PUs are original.
The body shows terribly crafted routings and a cavity for some larger PU. but that's all hidden under the pick guard.

The neck is year correct 41 mm at the nut with a meaty U profile and feel. The frets are fresh and play fast. The overall weight is at the light side. Prtobably around 3,4 Kg.

Unplugged this Tele sounds lower in volume and w. less bass response than what you typically find in contemporary Vintage style CS guitars.

But the trebles and mids, twang, note seperation and balance between the strings and when playing chords is outstanding. It's all there with a light touch of your fingers. It plays and feels like in my wildest Tele dreams although I don't know how strong it would come in a band mix.

The guy is asking 2800 Euros. If I decided to buy it this would make me starting a massive bonanza sale on some of my items. I know that deals in the U.S. can be better but that's far away and I always need to touch and hear a guitar before I buy it.

EWhat do you guys think about it? Too much diheros?

[spook69]

Sounds too much that I would be willing to pay out for that condition guitar, but that's just me.

[tiskit86]

Hard to say. Is it too much money for you, is really the question. I'd check out completed sales of similar guitars on ebay, which might be hard given the modifications that were done, but could give you a sense of what you could resell it for if you had to down the road. You might also want to check out how much it would cost you to bring it back to vintage spec by buying period correct parts. In the end though, it's hard to put a price on a special guitar that feels like a perfect fit for you. On occasion, I've been known to go way over my budget for a guitar like that.

[Telemach_1]

Originally Posted by tiskit86

Hard to say. Is it too much money for you

Too much for me.

Originally Posted by tiskit86

I'd check out completed sales of similar guitars on ebay, which might be hard given the modifications that were done, but could give you a sense of what you could resell it for if you had to down the road.

I'm trying, but as you said not many comparable Teles out there.

Originally Posted by tiskit86

You might also want to check out how much it would cost you to bring it back to vintage spec by buying period correct parts.

Quite a lot, but the PUs and getting it back to vintage correct specs. is not my concern. there are plenty of PU out there that I would prefer over the orig. CBS coils.

Originally Posted by tiskit86

In the end though, it's hard to put a price on a special guitar that feels like a perfect fit for you. On occasion, I've been known to go way over my budget for a guitar like that.

I'm in the same boat. Just feels almost if not perfect as far as <I can tell from my short test ride. An other aspect in mind is that this guitar would possibly have the potential to end my search maybe for ever. Just as my strats did end my search 35 years ago. That too is not only giving you peace3 of mind but also keeps you away from buying and selling temp. guitars. I might be saving on the long run.

Thanx for your replies everybody.

[Antoon]

Like you said there might be better deals out there. I see nice refin pre CBS necks sell on Ebay for $1500 (even 50ties). A refretted re-decalled CBS 60ties neck could be had for $1200 or less. That is 900 euros. Is the body an original olympic white alder body with the flush ferules? Or perhaps an ash body with original blonde finish? If the body is refin and cannot be dated anymore I would say that such a body could be had for $500 or less with that routing. If the finish is original and it can be roughly dated the value would be much more I think, even with hacked routes ($1000 for blonde?, $2000 for olympic white?). The sum of all repro parts on the guitar do not add any significant value, only the original parts do. So if it is an original olymplic white finish body then the price would be ok for me. It it is a refin body then the guitar's value for me would be about half of 2800 euro (1400 euro). Being from outside of the US nothing stops you from buying from EbayUS or US based dealers. As long as they ship internationally. Another thing that would be very important for me is the DEPTH of the new pickup routings. I would only consider as long as the new routings are not significantly deeper than the original routings.

[Flipped Mustang]

Originally Posted by Telemach_1

with a meaty U profile and feel.

I can't judge anything without looking at it, and I know necks did vary depending on the guitar, but '67 necks are not usually known to be meaty and U shaped. If anybody else has encountered thicker neck '67's, please correct me.

[Telemach_1]

Originally Posted by Antoon

Like you said there might be better deals out there. I see nice refin pre CBS necks sell on Ebay for $1500 (even 50ties). A refretted re-decalled CBS 60ties neck could be had for $1200 or less. That is 900 euros.

True, but I can't test ride and hear their sonic quality. I'm very picky and from my experience not every vintage neck is a garantie for great vintage sound and the way I prefer it to sound. I've played many vintage guitars that just didn't do it for me. Buying online is a tricky thing in this case.

Originally Posted by Antoon

...Is the body an original olympic white alder body with the flush ferules? Or perhaps an ash body with original blonde finish? If the body is refin and cannot be dated anymore I would say that such a body could be had for $500 or less with that routing. If the finish is original and it can be roughly dated the value would be much more I think, even with hacked routes ($1000 for blonde?, $2000 for olympic white?).

Well, I own a 63 strat oly white. The color on the Teöe in question is different. While it's pretty whitish w/o nicel clear coat, the Tele has a light yellowish shade that I would describe as a subtle lemon tint.
It looks like what CBS used in those years. Some chip offs and wear which looks not artificial or pretentious. No signs of relic here. The body is in a pretty good shape but definitely shows some honest age.

I'm puzzled when it comes to differ between Oly white and blonde. To me blonde is kind of shine through mary kaye finish while Oly white is almost white or cream. Oly White gets yellowish w. the years. At least that's how I assume it goes. As I said I've been a life time strat guy and got the Tele infection just a few years ago. So I remain a little insecure. The Ferrules I can't remember. Are the flush in those years?

Originally Posted by Antoon

........Another thing that would be very important for me is the DEPTH of the new pickup routings. I would only consider as long as the new routings are not significantly deeper than the original routings.

They're not. They don't take away sustain or twang. They're just ugly but I can live w. it.
I've done some research within my local tele rednecks. It is said that this guitar is possibly the guitar that one of them has sold to some shop. from there it has made it through various players. The original owner said that the body was a 66 and the neck a 67. All PUs and hard ware was original. Seems like some folks have been looting on this guitar's journey. In the end it is not sure if the guitar is the one.
Here are some pics. They were shot by the seller, not good at all but might give a little impression. The body appears a tad too yellow from what I remember the guitar actually looks like.

[Old Cane]

Something like that to me would have me moving on at anything over $1200-1500. Not sure the conversion on that to euros. I know things are different where you are. It might be a fine buy if it makes you happy and you aren't planning on selling it in 10 years to retire on.

[Telemach_1]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Something like that to me would have me moving on at anything over $1200-1500. Not sure the conversion on that to euros. I know things are different where you are. It might be a fine buy if it makes you happy and you aren't planning on selling it in 10 years to retire on.

I have to admit that I'm hesitant. Compared to my other fine gear this Tele would be a little fishy. But things are definitely different here and what really makes me think of buying it is its' natural archaic tele twang that effortlessly springs out of the plank by just a slight touch.

I've seen 68 Teles go for 6000 Euros just recently. Those were all correct but hey....way too much money for me even if I had the cash.

[Telemach_1]

Originally Posted by Flipped Mustang

I can't judge anything without looking at it, and I know necks did vary depending on the guitar, but '67 necks are not usually known to be meaty and U shaped. If anybody else has encountered thicker neck '67's, please correct me.

Maybe I put it wrong. The neck is slim in width (41 mm) but has a better feel than what I consider to be a modern c shape. It probably has more meat in the shoulder area and keeps getting beefy all up to the neck pocket. A friend of mine has a 71 Tele which is very similar in neck shape

[Flipped Mustang]

The neck looks right to me in the photos. It's so hard to value a guitar that's been messed with. If it feels and sounds great, that would add a lot of value to me as a player but I'm not sure I'd pay that much. I'd love to get a guitar like that for around $1,700.00 US if it sounded great and you could verify that the body is vintage.

[jebbo]

Not sure on the conversion to euros, but I'd say it's probaby worth 1800 euros tops. It's a very nice guitar, but one in that condition can be had for much less than what he's asking. I say go for it if you can get it under 2000, if not I'd say it's not worth it. This is all up to you. If you realy like it, you should probably get it. Some guitars just call your name. Luckily the one that calls my name is a Partscaster. It's actualy a MIM body. I have an 89 USA Tele, but the Partscaster always wins. The cheapest guitar could be the one you love the most.

[Telemach_1]

Originally Posted by jebbo

Not sure on the conversion to euros,...........

He aks for 2800 Euros which melts down to 3.668,17 $

[Telemach_1]

That's about the starting prize we pay for a CS Tele here in Germany

[bluenote23]

I was asking myself similar questions a few weeks ago.

I was looking at a 68 Tele with issues. A maple cap shaved neck. Humbucker and toggle switch body routes. Changed tuners, bridge pickup, bridge plate and saddles at the very least. It was $3000 (2800€ is about $3700)

When I played it, it was fantastic. Acoustically, it was very resonant and responsive. It had a lot of zing. I have one other oldish guitar, a 73 Strat, and that guitar shares these qualities (but to a lesser extent). Now it may be my imagination but it seems to me that some old wood has more of these qualities than my newer guitars.

The guitar sounded really good so I bought it.

Five weeks later and there's no regrets. It's a 'player'. Only the wood, the string tree and the neck plate are original (I think!) but at this point, I really don't care. The guitar just sounds and plays great.

Now, I don't know how things are in Europe. I don't know if there are a lot of sub 3000€ late 60's Teles for sale but I have a feeling there are not. When I bought my guitar, I knew it was 'affordable' because of the issues but I wasn't sure if I was ever going to get another chance at an 'affordable' Tele so I went for it.

I feel like I have the guitar I want. I don't want to get a CS, or a Reissue or a Baja because I have a great Telecaster now.

Of course this is only my experience and also, my experience with Telecasters is limited. I have a lot of nice guitars but this was my first Telecaster.

[Telemach_1]

I'm almost in the same situation bluenote. Not many end sixties Teles at an affordable prize. 3700 $ is a lot of silver but compared to what fully original Teles go it's probably O.K. Also I'd rather spend it on an abused but great sounding guitar than on a Custom Shop Tele that does not have the vibe and zing. I will have to play it one more time to firmly make up my descision.
I'm going to sell my brand new 52 RI and my Prosonic Head. I'm locat4ed in Europe

[Antoon]

Well the neck looks original to me and in very nice shape as well. You would pay at least $1500 on Ebay for that neck and maybe more. Provided that the body finish is original, you can say by the wood type which color it is. Look at the routes, if it is alder then it is olympic white. If it is ash the color is blonde. Blonde is often very opaque and not always easy to distinguish from olympic white. I think the ferrules stayed flush until '68. Does it have the original neck plate? Again if the body finish is original and it has all the period correct details it might after all not be such a bad deal. Especially considering that you would have to pay an additional 25% of the dollar cost should you bring such a guitar from the US to the EU (import duties and tax).

[Old Cane]

Right. There comes a point when you pick one up and play it and say "this is my guitar" and pay the money and go play. I figure how much money one of my old guitars has made me over the decades and I came out way ahead playing something I enjoyed playing and I'd never sell even though it is selling for 50 times more than what I paid.
I've paid more for others in the same timeframe and if I sold them I would maybe break even if I didn't count the money I made with them.

The only moment to pause on a "modified classic" is when you ask yourself what you could sell it for if you had to. Then again, if it's how you make your money you'd better not be selling it. If you keep it and enjoy for 10 years and get most of your money back and it's a hobby? Well, hobbies are supposed to cost you money so that's fine too.

[Tonemonkey]

I paid &euro;1900 for a refin , non orig neck pup 70/71. All original except refin 69 thin line goes for around &euro;4k.

I reckon it's not too far from a realistic euro price - if it speaks to you - you can drop in and out pups to your liking without guilt.

My 2c.

[Telemach_1]

Yeah, you gotta think big. I had to borrow me money more than once when I bought my vintage beauties 30+ years ago. It wasn't much, maybe 1500 or 2000 $. Thought that it was breathtaking much but today they're about 10 times the money worth and I'm glad I wasn't a bean counter back then.
What makes me nervous this time is that there is only very little time left and that I'll have to bonanza sell some gear of mine. There will probably be some loss, e-bay fees etc. Adding the loss to the seller's asking prize will boost the prize of this 67 Tele up for me. But that's the market and it's O.K.