MIM WRHB...really?

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by fender4life

It's not a matter of TYPE of tone. If it had seymour HB's i could appriciate it for what it was. The tone iself just plain sucks. Very harsh and muddy when turned down even with 500k pot and tone control unhooked and treble bleed.

I think you need to crave this model real bad, to make it make sense to pursue it.

Very clear, that is not you. You're seeing the limitations of the model, and not the "glamour" aspect which I think has to do with certain stars using the USA originals of this model, and that means it is all bloody and uphill and there's no point.

Sell it now, get what you can.

[RockerDuck]

I've got a one. It got set up good, pickup height and all. One problem in them pickups is the screws on some are shorting the pickup. Make sure the screws are isolated. Mine sings pretty good, then again, I make the guitars sound good, not the other way around.

[Strat62]

You've got to mess with the polepieces-the ones under the cover as well. You can get them to sound good, believe me. As for cutting thru the mix-well, I hear ya there. What really woke mine up, and saved the guitar for me was installing 4 push/pulls and doing the Jimmy Page thing. Now it is truly awesome and unique in it's sound. Mine's a B.Hefner alder body, Allparts 22 fret neck and a bunch of over the counter Fender parts. I paid over $90 a piece for those GD pickups...

[fender4life]

Thought i'd update this. I had the guitar up for sale not only because of the sound of those pickups and the fear some of that wasn't just from them but maybe inherent in the guitar, but also because the neck felt bulky, don't care for 7.25", and strings felt very tight. Felt more like 11's than the 10's i put on. Anyways, while waiting for replies from my ads i decided to try adjusting it differently than i did at first, which was little relief and as low an action as it would handle w/o much buzz. But today i decided to "shim' it knowing how that can sometimes radically change the way a guitar plays and even sounds. So i used the micro tilt to raise it up, straightened the neck even more till there was almost no relief, (how i usually do it and don't know why i didn't on this one right off) and raised the saddles to compensate for all that. I've seen some big changes doing this in the past, but this time took the cake. The guitar now feels like a completely different guitar. The action now has that rare feel that makes it seem like the action at the high end of the neck is no higher than at the nut. The strings no longer feel tight. It plays like butter, and even the chunky neck and radius doesn't bother me. I'm kinda liking it ! The tone also now seems more resonant and has a noticeably better character to it.

So i may have had a change of heart and i now think i may keep it. Only thing is, those pickups are just so horrible i can't help but worry some of what i'm hearing won't go away 100% if i make a guard for singles or whatever p/u's i use. problem is, when i turn down to clean up the low strings just go dead as a doornail and just horrid. On 10 they're fine ! And thats with a 500pf treble bleed cap. a 500k pot helped, but not near enough.

So not sure what i'm going to do, but i did this away from my amp so i haven't had a chance to plug it in and see how the acoustic change translates thru those pickups. Doubt it will matter. But if i decide to keep it i'll have a guard made for singles and go with strat p/u's. I think it may just do a 180 from what i first thought of it and end up being a killer. Sure as heck loving the way it plays now, about that theres no doubt.

[oneeyedog]

something worth trying? I got this of the board somewhere a few months back.... worked for me :-)

Originally Posted by OaklandA
Hopefully not straying off point, but have any of you explored the Fralin mod on these before buying replacements?

I had an opportunity to speak with Lindy on this and after trying it I am pretty pleased with the results. I have a '72 Thinline RI FSR, and a '72 Custom RI (both MIM).

The mod is to lower the pickups very far down....about flush for the neck pickup and a bit higher for the bridge. The top facing magnet screws are then heightened a full turn and then to volume adjustment. The bottom facing (hidden) mag screws are backed out a full two turns.

This takes a lot of the muffled sound out of these...particularly for the neck and opens them up a bit.

[Colt W. Knight]

I have never played a guitar with RI WRH that I liked.

[fender4life]

Originally Posted by oneeyedog

something worth trying? I got this of the board somewhere a few months back.... worked for me :-)

Originally Posted by OaklandA
Hopefully not straying off point, but have any of you explored the Fralin mod on these before buying replacements?

I had an opportunity to speak with Lindy on this and after trying it I am pretty pleased with the results. I have a '72 Thinline RI FSR, and a '72 Custom RI (both MIM).

The mod is to lower the pickups very far down....about flush for the neck pickup and a bit higher for the bridge. The top facing magnet screws are then heightened a full turn and then to volume adjustment. The bottom facing (hidden) mag screws are backed out a full two turns.

This takes a lot of the muffled sound out of these...particularly for the neck and opens them up a bit.

Fantastic,Thanks ! Some eluded to this earlier but no details. I'll give it a try tonite and post back w/results.

[fender4life]

oops...sorry

[TeleKato]

I'm gonna be rather if that works and I just dropped $200 on the Lollar version for my Custom project. Well, not really ... it's a Lollar.

[chrom-freak]

maybe 1meg pots might move it into your comfort zone.

[mistermullens]

The newer WRHB are "supposed" to be better than the old ones. I have a 2001 '72RI Tele Custom, and I did the Fralin mod, which was OK for a while. Than I bumped up to 500k pots with barely a noticeable difference. My last resort, before upgrading the neck pup, was to drop in 1meg pots. More of an improvement, but it was short lived after playing several live shows. So, it was time I dropped in a Lollar Regal, which was quite an improvement. The jury is still out on whether they're worth $200 a piece, but it does sound good. I have 500k pots with the Regal, but at the next string change, I think I'm going with 1meg.

Hope this helps.

[fender4life]

Well, before i'd spend $200 i'd rather spend $50 on a custom blackguard and put single coils in it, which is what i'd have preferred to begin with. I got the guitar because i wanted ash/maple and i like thinlines. But i certainly would never buy one with WRHB in it if it weren't otherwise very desirable to me. I want to try this tweak not because i expect it to make me happy with them, only to see what the guitar's potential is. As they are not i can't even evaluate the guitar itself and wood. It's like trying to decide whether a certain sports car handles well enough to buy it with bald no name tires on it. If i see big potential in if after tweaking the WRHB's i'll be getting that custom guard and using a couple strat pickups in it. As to the pot, i really hate 500k or up because of the taper. I much prefer 250k for the taper, so single coils will benefit me there too.

By the way, anyone have a pic of a natural finish '72 thinline with a mint guard?

[fender4life]

Well, it worked fairly well. They are at least usable now and i will play it a few days and see whether i can decide whether to keep it. So far so good tho.

Lemmie ask you guys who are familiar with these pups another question... just so i know it's not inherent in the guitar itself, do these WRHB's tend to sound weak when you are playing distorted and you turn them down to get clean? These do and i just wanna be sure it's the fault of the pups.

[Telenator]

Unfortunately, the re-issue WRHBs lack the complex harmonics and sparkle that make other pickups sound great.

The "Fralin Mod" helps a little, and changing to 500K pots adds a little sparkle but, unfortunately they amplify the negative aspects at the same time.

I know that some people seem to get on fine with these guitars and pickups. I don't doubt their claims and won't deny their enjoyment.

I will however say, there are a lot of us who just find the stock re-issue pickups to be very lackluster and disappointing in the way they perform. You are not alone in your opinion.

There are several pickup options out there that are worthwhile because Fender actually did a very good job on all other aspects of these 70's guitars. It's too bad the pickups let the rest of the package down.

[fender4life]

There are several pickup options out there that are worthwhile because Fender actually did a very good job on all other aspects of these 70's guitars.

Yes, and one is simply to get a custom pickguard. All the boutique offerings are fine if you want to stick with that look or sound. But like i said, for me i wanted it to have single coils to begin with. So a custom pickguard is another option that opens up your pickup options to include pretty much anything ou could ever want.

I think the guitar itself may be quite good, but till i get the pickups i want in it i can't be 100% sure. One thing that really worried me is the notion it IS inherent in the guitar because a week before i got this i had a 72 RI strat ! The same look as this....bullet truss rod on a maple neck with natural ash body. Like the stratocaster sibling to this one. And guess wht it sounded like. Yep....had the same dead low end when turned down, and the kicker is that WAS with other pickups too ! I stuck my fav van zandts with a duncan SSL-5 in the bridge and the dead lows (as i said, when turned down to clean up) just like the tele remained. Thats why i've been so worried about this one thinking maybe it's the bullet truss rod, as thats the only thing they had in common. Well, aside from the ash body, but if anything ash should be LESS muddy and dead sounding in the lows when turned down. In any case, it's looking like that was just a coincidence on the tele and that it's actually caused by these pickups.

[Telenator]

I completely agree with you that some guitars are simply duds. And it doesn't matter what they cost.

A few years back, I bought a Suhr Strat and it was a lifeless clunker. I currently own 3 Suhrs and find them to be exemplary guitars. Among the best I've ever played or owned. But that doesn't mean a dud doesn't slip through every so often. And it certainly does not reflect of Suhr as a company. Suhr doesn't make the wood.

As for your guitar, I personally find that a decent set of pickups will reveal a guitar's fundamental tendencies and that you can make a good judgement based on that. The stock re-issue WRHB pickups also happen to be among the last I'd consider when making such a judgement.

You know what you're doing. Good luck with the project.

[fender4life]

True, there are always duds. I however do think a real dud SHOULD reflect on suhr because they are a high end builder and thats just not acceptable at those prices. Thats just my opinion. Larrivee believed enough in that premise that they posted a video of them smashing a guitar that didn't make it past QC simply due to the tone being unacceptable. Don't know if they still do that. But when you pay over $2k for a guitar and a CV woulda sounded better, thats just plain wrong IMO. Now if suhr was to fully back them up for tonal reasons and agree to replace it, then i could get with the program. Then i wouldn't say it reflects on them except in a good way. I once bought a strat from Ishibashi Japan that was like that. It was so horrible (tried pups and every imaginable tweak) that when i sold it i sold it dirt cheap because of my conscience. I didn't feel right selling it for close to what a strat like that which sounded normal would be worth.

as to mine, i played i a lot more last nite and while the pups still aren't great, i was definately able to tell the guitar is definately got some great tone under those monstrosities. I have no doubt it will kill with SC's. And it ill lose about 1/2 a lb too ! It's actially about as heavy as my alder strat, so losing some weight will be good. I'm glad it's not ultra light tho, as i find the tone of very very light thinlines is great clean but very inarticulate distorted. This on has lots of definition.

[Telenator]

One man's tone is a another man's trash.

There are people who truly dig the sound of the stock re-issue WRHBs. I can't say they're wrong for liking that. It suits them. As in any situation, there are those who have a different perception of what things should sound like. Some of us just happen to be on the other side of the fence.

Is the grass greener? Is the maple superior to rosewood? It's anyone's choice!

[drvoodoo]

+1 Telenator, I happen to like the RI WRHB but it might be that it is not in any of my Telecasters but in my Pawn Shop 72? To the OP, hope you get it sorted out and find the tone and feel you are seeking.

[Toto'sDad]

I think I found the answer to the problem with the wide range humbuckers. You install new strings, give the guitar a real good setup. Then you sell the guitar and buy an American Standard Telecaster. The guitar now sounds pretty good, by changing not only the pickups, but the guitar as well, I think I finally got to the root of the problem. I think this will work at least 91.47% of the time, of course your experience could vary. Worked for me. SHAME ON FENDER, BAD FENDER, BAD FENDER, BAD MAKING WIDE RANGE PICKUPS FENDER, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. IF YOU HAD A SHRED OF DECENCY YOU WOLD SEND ME A BRAND NEW NOCASTER JUST FOR THE EFFORT I PUT INTO MAKING THOSE THINGS WORK!!!! DON'T YOU DARE PUT WIDE RANGE HUMBUCKERS IN IT!