What do 'Master Builders' actually do?

[Jupiter]

Originally Posted by chipbutty24

Major gas pains...

Yeah, that one hit the monkey nerve.

[jstream]

I'm still relatively new here, so I almost feel like I have no business posting on this one... But that's never stopped me before :)

I see valid points on both sides... A lot of them. Having seen and played acouple of old custom shop guitars, a gold flake strat (in the strat book i believe) - complete with the story that 10 years later the guy who painted it saying that damn gold flake was
still all over his shoes, and the gorgeous rockabilly red, f branded, b-bender thinline in the tele book - both owned by a friend of mine. The work that can come out of the custom shop can be truly exceptional.


But then some of the guitars I've seen here appear to be the equals of any makers custom shop. On my build, my goal is to, at very least, equal fender's regular-line standards. And that would reflect the care of a single, new builder. Isn't it possible then, that some of the guys here can not only equal the masterbuilts for fender or others, but possibly exceed them? Some have been building for years, with a level of care and expertise that I would call the work of a master.


How then do we educate the general public that these guitars are works of love and exceptional skill are thus would be worth prices equal to the custom shop works of the large, well-known brands?


I asked the concert master of the orchestra here if he thought it was at all possible that, given modern techniques, and the knowledge of centuries, a modern builder could build a violin the equal to the stradivarius he plays. His answer? Why not? It should be possible, and has probably been done, but it's sitting unknown in the hands of the builders' 10 year old. But will the elite of the world ever allow themselves to admit that it exists?


It seems to me that we're the ones who need to work to change the publics views on this.


Just my thoughts, and I hope they make some kind of sense.

And I for one, think it's very cool that the Fender Custom Shop is represented here.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

We use one CNC to cut the neck pocket and interior routes.
1) The program was made off the original steel templates.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

The contours, edges, holes, and sanding are all done by hand. Contours are extremely different from year to year. a 59 will look completely different from a 66. All of that detail has to be hand done.

We use one CNC to cut the neck perimeter, fret slots, truss rod slot, face dots, neck mounting holes, and tuner holes. That's all.

1)The programs (again) are taken off of the original metal templates, as well as a original neck blank (un-shaped or sanded) loaned to us from George Fullerton.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

Once that blank is routed, the side dots, truss rod stripe, face dots, and frets are all done by hand. The frets are put in one at a time by hand on one manual fret press (pic below). That fret press frets every neck from the FCS.

The neck is then taken to one of the original pin routers (see pic below) and rough shaped by hand. Then it is hand shaped to a V, C, or any custom shape requested. The blends at the headstock and butt are very vintage correct as well. It varied from year to year and those have to be precise.

We are shooting some videos now showing you how we do it. It is basically the same as it was done in the 50's and 60's, only the pocket fit is much better. Anybody can come to the factory and take the tour as well.

It is funny that some people envision a big building where trees go in one side, and guitars come out the other. Hopefully this will give you a little more perspective.

ME

Neck shaping original pin router:


FCS Fret Press:

Very informative. Thank you.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Latebluesman

Well?

I have to say this thread has been a bit of an eye-opener. My question was an honest one-there's so much marketing schtick that we have to put up with, day to day.

[cfox]

I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.

[twangster2]

Originally Posted by cfox

I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.

Agreed...

[andpeab]

...so when someone asks a question clearly looking for information about a part of fender's guitar building operation you don't think a person who is VERY familiar with that operation should provide any information? this forum is a discussion forum dedicated to the telecaster, a guitar made by fender for over 60 years, yet they should not be allowed to participate in the discourse? huh?

[chipbutty24]

Originally Posted by cfox

I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.

Mike Eldred is the Director of the Fender Custom Shop. If there is anyone qualified to speak here it's him. The OPs comment is about his crew.

[Latebluesman]

Originally Posted by chipbutty24

Mike Eldred is the Director of the Fender Custom Shop. If there is anyone qualified to speak here it's him. The OPs comment is about his crew.

+1

[Skub]

Originally Posted by Latebluesman

I would like to say to all my TDPRI friends that
I respect very much everyone who builds, creates, makes, crafts etc, pieces of art like musical instruments are,
made to give joy and self expression, made to calm and educate the savage human soul.
Because I love the guitar, I especially admire and feel like I am between brothers when it comes to Telecaster fans.
Also, I don't respect at all people that make weapons.
I like truth, honesty, fair game, humor, even sarcasm, and I like to use my "common" sense.
I am not someone who knows a lot about Telecasters.
I use the internet to collect information about anything.
Every picture, video or article I found about FCS and masterbuilders,
was full of smiles, love for the guitar, love for the accurate and well built
instruments, love for music, eyes full of emotions, respect and pride for the Fender history, and FANTASTIC GUITARS.
I say some things talk for themselves, we just have to believe...

A great post in a great and informative thread.*

*From an ex surface to air weapons builder.

[Jupiter]

Originally Posted by cfox

I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.

Disagreed...

Its always interesting when ME joins a thread.

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by cfox

I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.

Yeah.

It's more fun when you have a bunch of guys with no expertise just bitching about stuff they don't really know about.

[DC Music]

One of the most engaging threads I've ever read.

[twangster2]

When Fender joins in it does a few things.

Turns it from a enthusiasts site to a official Fender site. They already have one.

Then it starts to make you wonder how many Fender employees post here not disclosing themselves. Doing marketing and creating hype for products. I know they do it, and deep down you do too.

This is just bad for us but great for them

[cfox]

Originally Posted by twangster2

When Fender joins in it does a few things.

Turns it from a enthusiasts site to a official Fender site. They already have one.

Then it starts to make you wonder how many Fender employees post here not disclosing themselves. Doing marketing and creating hype for products. I know they do it, and deep down you do too.

This is just bad for us but great for them

Exactly! If they do do marketing and creating hype for products, they need to LISTEN better to US customers.

And then snide comments and responses, isn't very professional.

[Skub]

Originally Posted by twangster2

When Fender joins in it does a few things.

Turns it from a enthusiasts site to a official Fender site. They already have one.

Then it starts to make you wonder how many Fender employees post here not disclosing themselves. Doing marketing and creating hype for products. I know they do it, and deep down you do too.

This is just bad for us but great for them

I think perhaps you take a couple of things for granted,firstly Having a chap from FCS posting doesn't subtract any of the amateur status from TDPRI,rather it adds credibility. Secondly,you underestimate the ability of folk to think for themselves,not everyone becomes an automaton when presented with the company line.

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by cfox

Exactly! If they do do marketing and creating hype for products, they need to LISTEN better to US customers.

And then snide comments and responses, isn't very professional.

It's funny though, y'all don't complain about the small builders on the board, just Fender. Everyone seems to worship at the feet of the small builder, and even embrace the fake Fenders that are on here every day.

But when Fender (by the way, the maker of the real TELECASTER guitar we all claim to love) shows up, everyone wants to take down "the man."

Funny bunch you.

[mr newhaven]

I dont believe that fender planted spies within our ranks to establish covert marketing beach heads...

It's an interesting angle but I don't believe it to be accurate!
I think that ME just happened upon this thread and thought that he needed to stand up for his crew!
That is what you want in a boss right!?
Someone who is passionate about what they do? And in today's sterilized pre-approved sound bite era isn't it refreshing to see a guy like ME go off the script and act like a real human?
I'm sure Fender brass would prefer he just shut up and work but what are they goin to do fire ME? Hahaha yeah right!!!

I like knowing there is a fire under his a$$ to protect his men!
That being said I think we learned all we could about this thread...
Fender master built guitars are wonderful!
Are they worth the price? Sure!
Can you get this or that and and amp for the same price? Yes! So which is better? It's up to you to decide.
Sure there is some marketing pixie dust used...look at the relic market and artist signature series...
But so what?
We all have guitar heroes! And we all have our preferences...so why not have more options than not?!

Why are starcasters going for 3-5000 on the vintage market when you can get an es-335 for cheaper!?

But these are academic questions not real useful ones!

Ron Kirn is the man!
Plain and simple...this guy bleeds customer service!
Show me another builder that is as open with his process and witty as Ron?
Doesn't exist!
He updates us on his builds more than the Fender Facebook page and he is just one guy who is passionate about his craft!
Who cares that he doesn't build necks from scratch!
He creates a guitar system that works Soo freaking well with all of its parts that it's truly a wonderful instrument!

It's like making fun of a chef who doesn't grow his own vegetables and raise his own cattle!
Is his food less important?
I don't think so!

I own a CS strat




And I love it!!

Thanks ME btw to your team for building it!
But as much as I love my custom shop, I live for my MIJ Rosewood Tele...

Do to each his own.

I think that this thread was interesting and I'm glad that Ron and Mike are warming to each other...I know that they both respect each others work but let's be real they have to differentiate themselves from each other because they are going after the same market...

So bottom line...let's give both of these guys an every other small builder a round of applause and thank them for their work and buy what we want to buy!

Btw Mike, I would love to see some more updates about what your doing over there...even though I know it's a pain in the arse! But you can't jump into this kind of thread to only disappear later on!

Hahahaha
I'm need a coffee now!

[cfox]

I don't know if I would put mastebuilt on this:



and then $6500...makes me laugh

[Mike Eldred]

Wow.
This thread just got real creepy. Black helicopter stuff.

ME