What do 'Master Builders' actually do?

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by chipbutty24

Anyone can build a guitar but it takes a true master to GROW a guitar.

The CS thing is easy to take shots at because...well...it's Fender. They're a big corporation. It's very cool though that ME takes the time to post here even if it seems like a losing proposition.

Thanks for posting Mike.

Couldn't agree more. Yea, thanks a lot Mike Eldred for taking the time to explain. You're a credit to Fender. Shame more big shots can't be troubled to do the same.

And don't get me started on companies like Nash et al. (Sorry, maybe I shouldn't name names) but they are little more than repair/ assemblymen, fine-tweaking readily available bought-in parts. And look at what they charge!!!

More power to yer elbow, Mike. (Hopefully, one day I'll be able to afford one of your 'Masterbuilt ' offerings! But for now, I'm very happy with my 2001 Timemachine '63 Tele Relic in LPB)

[RollingStone82]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

We use one CNC to cut the neck pocket and interior routes.
1) The program was made off the original steel templates.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

The contours, edges, holes, and sanding are all done by hand. Contours are extremely different from year to year. a 59 will look completely different from a 66. All of that detail has to be hand done.

We use one CNC to cut the neck perimeter, fret slots, truss rod slot, face dots, neck mounting holes, and tuner holes. That's all.

1)The programs (again) are taken off of the original metal templates, as well as a original neck blank (un-shaped or sanded) loaned to us from George Fullerton.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

Once that blank is routed, the side dots, truss rod stripe, face dots, and frets are all done by hand. The frets are put in one at a time by hand on one manual fret press (pic below). That fret press frets every neck from the FCS.

The neck is then taken to one of the original pin routers (see pic below) and rough shaped by hand. Then it is hand shaped to a V, C, or any custom shape requested. The blends at the headstock and butt are very vintage correct as well. It varied from year to year and those have to be precise.

We are shooting some videos now showing you how we do it. It is basically the same as it was done in the 50's and 60's, only the pocket fit is much better. Anybody can come to the factory and take the tour as well.

It is funny that some people envision a big building where trees go in one side, and guitars come out the other. Hopefully this will give you a little more perspective.

ME

Neck shaping original pin router:

FCS Fret Press:

Wow, I had no idea that you were FSC dude Mike!! It must be great to do that for for a living, knowing that what you do helps the rest of us forget about our jobs for a while lol. Love the CS! Keep up the great work.

[dada]

This might answer the question....

http://www.ronkirn.com/tutorial/index.htm

[Esquire59]

Looking forward to the videos Mike, keep up the good work, love my FCS's!!

[M40A1]

I own a Masterbuilt Fender (Cruz, 59 Strat), doesn't that just piss you off? My money, my choice, my guitar.

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by dada

This might answer the question....

http://www.ronkirn.com/tutorial/index.htm

Where's the neck?

ME

[Ron Garson]

Fender CS Masterbuilders?







If I won the lottery, I'd have each one of those guys build me a guitar!

[Mike Eldred]

Not me. If I won the lottery, I'd buy this.


ME

[Tonemonkey]

Originally Posted by M40A1

I own a Masterbuilt Fender (Cruz, 59 Strat), doesn't that just piss you off? My money, my choice, my guitar.

Not really. Should it? Congrats, enjoy it. I'm selling a fine DG Masterbuilt Tele if you want another.

Thanks to:

Mike E for taking the time and trouble to post in such detail

and to RK, Melle et al and other respected Luthiers / builders for their ongoing perspectives and knowledgeable contributions.

Thats why this place is the dog's knob for us players, collectors and nerds.

[Ron Garson]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

Not me. If I won the lottery, I'd buy this.


ME

[telex76]

Never had a Masterbuilt and I'm sure I never will, but I can dream.

I've got a Custom Shop 54 Tele that was Teambuilt in a fairly small run for Daves Guitars, and it is perfect. Best money I ever spent on any of my equipment.

[Chud]

Originally Posted by VicAjax

they masterbuild.



i can't believe no one said that yet.

They ought to watch how much they masterbuild because they could go blind from that...

[tele_pathic]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

They do this...


ME

Well, besides that, I mean, what else do you do? Hang out at TDPRI all day? *phhhshshshshshhhh* That's some kind of job.

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

And, this...


ME

Oh, well, that too, I suppose. And?

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

And, this...(Kit Carson made the little bits on this one)


ME

Ummm......

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

oooh, and this...


ME

Oh, well...Ummmm...I'm beginning to get it now.....

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

And, this...(the balls even have the FCS logo laser etched on them!)


ME

Oh, ok. Well....So besides creating original, beautiful pieces of playable art, what else do you do? I mean, really.























BTW, I hope my sarcastic tone is obvious enough. Those are freakin' beautiful Mike E. Great work!

[Ronkirn]

Where's the neck?

and some of you guys think I’m the jerk…..

Well, actually that thread was done back when I was making necks with Fender's headstock... it included photos of how to take a nondescript headstock and reshape it into the shape so many prefer. Paul asked me to remove anything that could be misconstrued as how to do what many in Scottsdale would find objectionable, and Mark VanVleet insisted…. . . . so I did so.

However, perhaps it's gone unnoticed, that's actually me, knee deep in sawdust really making the guitar.... you wont see photos of me measuring the depth of a Strat jack plate rout, what's that about, or me scraping paint off the back of a neck probably made by a CNC, or pulling tape (I think) out of a control cavity of a body that is obviously already completed. And in the background, you will see a conglomeration of my “stuff” that is necessary to actually make the necks and bodies I use. Mike, Bud, where are your “guys” doing anything meaningful?

I’m sorry Paul. I have tried to just ignore the “swipes” Mike has been throwing around today. I hope you will send him one of those friendly little emails reminding him to “play” nice too. When a “bully” enters the playground and starts throwing “darts” someone’s gotta say something.

The interesting thing to me is, I have never seen, and I have searched, a photo or video of any of the CS masters doing any of the “heavy lifting”. I have no doubt that they are more than qualified to do so, but isn’t it interesting in the photos and videos of ‘em that are made available, they are either sitting around a table telling us stuff we already know… or just “measuring the depth of a jack plate rout or some other nonsense.” How about a 2 minute U tube of whoever doing that engraved pickup cover and the filigree’ around it? C’mon.. I’d watch that kinda stuff all night. Is the “gang” in marketing brain dead?

In a realm where the “clientele” are electric with excitement to see their guitars actually being made, there doesn’t seem to be one photo anywhere of any of the CS guys with a router in hand, a sanding block shaping the back of a neck, a spray gun aimed at a body, a soldering gun in hand, a fret leveling tool sliding back and forth.. a neck being held against a buffing wheel.. a marker tracing out a pickguard, nimble fingers guiding hair fine wire onto a bobbin, a fret press actually being used. No photos where you could say, “Yeah, that guy is actually making that guitar. Am I wrong…. Please let me be.

Many of us “low life” assemblers” have posted photos, almost to the point of nausea, of us building ‘em . . . all the way from a pile of wood, to holding the finished product…. Wouldn’t you think, someone like FMIC, with all those resources, would have at the very least, done something similar.

Just sayin’ is all. I mean.. the “ball” was hit into my court, wasn’t it.

U know who…

[twangster2]

They hang out push Fender products, pretend to be customers..

They are the FMIC buzz creators.

I have seen and played tons of masterbuilts in my area..

I gotta say..

Pay more attention. Those master built Claptons at the music gallery had horrible nut jobs.

I will add. The Nashveagas Tele and amp set.. looks killer.. once again a nightmare to play

[R. Stratenstein]

Wouldn't it be fair to equate Fender's CS Masterbuilders to some of the more accomplished artisan luthiers who post here? Guys who build one-off instruments, one at a time, putting their experience, skill, and knowledge into it, at a rate that would make regular production guitars uncompetitively expensive?

[daveandshelle]

cool

[fezz parka]

I would say that based on Mike's pics, they build masterfully. Some of those are works of art.

[dazzypig]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

We use one CNC to cut the neck pocket and interior routes....

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I think my major gripe lies with the cost vs time for a company with CNC capabilities and large amounts of automation at it's disposal.

Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms about the quality of the product in question, I have had the pleasure of playing a few of the Master-built instruments and they are indeed fantastic, it just seems that it comes at a very high price in comparison to some highly respected independent luthiers (I use the term 'luthier' sparingly) who can also produce period correct guitars but are forced to charge more for their products by the amount of time it takes them to perform processes that can be made much easier and cost effective with the use of better tooling and automation. (phew, that was a long sentence). A lot of the time, it's worth noting, that these builders will come in under the price of a FCS Master-build.

Again, thanks for your time.

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by dazzypig

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I think my major gripe lies with the cost vs time for a company with CNC capabilities and large amounts of automation at it's disposal.

Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms about the quality of the product in question, I have had the pleasure of playing a few of the Master-built instruments and they are indeed fantastic, it just seems that it comes at a very high price in comparison to some highly respected independent luthiers (I use the term 'luthier' sparingly) who can also produce period correct guitars but are forced to charge more for their products by the amount of time it takes them to perform processes that can be made much easier and cost effective with the use of better tooling and automation. (phew, that was a long sentence). A lot of the time, it's worth noting, that these builders will come in under the price of a FCS Master-build.

Again, thanks for your time.

You use a CNC for two reasons:
1) High production.
2) Accuracy.

We use it for tolerance only, or in other words, accuracy.
If it was a high-volume shop, we wouldn't be back-ordered 7 months.

ME