What do 'Master Builders' actually do?

[Ronkirn]

bbmyers and RonKirn, please explain what you mean by "hiding their mistakes".

Lighten up... it's a joke . . . . among luthiers it's often joked, that the best luthiers are those that can hide their mistakes the best.... that's it..... all of it.... no ambiguous, uncertain, amorphous underlying meaning at all...

nobody makes anything "perfect"... the reason..... look out yer front door.... see that big round thing? That's planet Earth... known throughout the universe as the #1 place where "stuff" happens.... why else do ya think we haven't been invaded yet? The aliens cannot factor in the uncertainty presented by Murphy's Law.

rk

[Latebluesman]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Lighten up... it's a joke . . . . among luthiers it's often joked, that the best luthiers are those that can hide their mistakes the best.... that's it..... all of it.... no ambiguous, uncertain, amorphous underlying meaning at all...

nobody makes anything "perfect"... the reason..... look out yer front door.... see that big round thing? That's planet Earth... known throughout the universe as the #1 place where "stuff" happens.... why else do ya think we haven't been invaded yet? The aliens cannot factor in the uncertainty presented by Murphy's Law.

rk

Thank you, I appreciate your answer.
But I see it in a different way.
If the OP was "What do 'Master Builders' actually do?", then you could say, making a joke, "they are the best in hiding their mistakes".
But because the OP's real question is found on the second phrase "Or is the whole Masterbuilt thing simply a marketing ploy?",
I believe that making this kind of joke is not exactly just a joke ...
Anyway, thank's again.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

They don't buy necks from other people, bolt them on a body and say they "built" it. :)

ME

I reckon I oughta get busy and start felling some Trees, so I can claim I "Build"

Custom Guitars ?........

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I reckon I oughta get busy and start felling some Trees, so I can claim I "Build"

Custom Guitars ?........

Most boutique "builders" I've seen don't know how to load a truss rod or set a neck. That's why you see so many bolters. Buy a body (or route one because that's relatively simple), and buy a generic neck, and slap a decal on it, and there you have it.

ME

[TDPRI]

Mike is correct that a lot of "builders" are essentially "bolters." However, we're fortunate at the TDPRI that we have many builders that not only build complete guitars out of raw wood, but also create their own bridge, Control plates and knobs and even wind their own pickups. They make 90+% of everything on the guitar.

I just completed a tour of the Custom Shop and I'd say the main difference between the Master Builder guitars is that one guy is responsible for the entire guitar -- as in it's not "team built".

It's not some "marketing ploy" to add a couple of thousand dollars to a guitar -- it's as personal as it gets. One master guitar maker building one guitar for one guitar player. (And, yes, that's what many of our custom builders that frequent the TDPRI are as well. Just not within the greater Fender production family.)

Where the regular Fender production guitar goes through dozens of small steps handled by hundreds of people, a CS Team Built guitar goes through dozens of larger steps handled by fewer than a dozen people. The Master Built guitar goes through all the same steps but handled by essentially one person.

[Deadcenter]

I'm guessing the custom shop guys are 'bolters' too, by your definition. I doubt they route each body and shape each neck by hand.

The difference is attention to detail and meticulous hand fitting of parts.

[dazzypig]

I've not seen any pictures of a master builder with a router in hand or doing any 'big' work.

I always seem to see pictures of them setting a nut, fine tuning something with sandpaper or doing some finishing or distressing.

Still seems to me that they just pick a nice piece of wood to get machined then tweak it a little bit and apply a bit more care to the process, and then charge a shed load more for it.

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by Deadcenter

I'm guessing the custom shop guys are 'bolters' too, by your definition. I doubt they route each body and shape each neck by hand.

The difference is attention to detail and meticulous hand fitting of parts.

EVERY neck is shaped by hand.
EVERY body is hand shaped.

ME

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by dazzypig

I've not seen any pictures of a master builder with a router in hand or doing any 'big' work.

I always seem to see pictures of them setting a nut, fine tuning something with sandpaper or doing some finishing or distressing.

Still seems to me that they just pick a nice piece of wood to get machined then tweak it a little bit and apply a bit more care to the process, and then charge a shed load more for it.

Scroll up to the pics, and let me know if you need more.

ME

[dazzypig]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

EVERY neck is shaped by hand.
EVERY body is hand shaped.

ME

I know I'm being overly cynical here, but what do you mean by 'shaped"?

Taken from the CNC and tweaked? Routed one at a time? Chisel, mallet and a keen eye?

[chipbutty24]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I reckon I oughta get busy and start felling some Trees, so I can claim I "Build"

Custom Guitars ?........

Look at it this way...you could charge A LOT more.

[VicAjax]

they masterbuild.



i can't believe no one said that yet.

[BLAM]

At the moment I'm happy with my team built CS Teles and Strats which tick about every box for me but some day I hope to try out a Master built -perhaps one of those White Chickens that Mike attached above, or the green Thinline (Bono "The Goal is Soul") Tele.

To be honest I'm kind of intrigued to find out how the Master Builts can possibly be an improvement over some of the great team built examples I already own but I guess curiousity will get the better of me sooner or later.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by chipbutty24

Look at it this way...you could charge A LOT more.

Point well-taken......

[livepulse]

Originally Posted by Mike Eldred

Scroll up to the pics, and let me know if you need more.

ME

I'm tempted to say: MORE!!!!!!!!

I love FCS guitars!!!

[Gareth John]

Anyone can make a guitar, but these guys are luthiers and artists in their own right. You pay for a 1 off high quality piece of art and musical instrument. It's the joy or owning a high quality instrument and an appreciation of the art and skill involved like any custom piece or artwork. It costs alot more for one highly skilled luthier to make everything, select the right pieces, a build the thing than it does a production line where one person does one job and another does another. You get what you pay for. It just depends whether or not that's something you're into or not or whether you want to pay for it. Nothing wrong with owning entry level instrument or top grade. I'd love to own a Custom shop Fender (one day)

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Gareth John

Anyone can make a guitar

Really ?.....Perhaps you'd like to see some examples of stuff that walks in

my Shop every now & then....

[Bartholomew3]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I reckon I oughta get busy and start felling some Trees, so I can claim I "Build"

Custom Guitars ?........

Or better still --- do a Johnny Appleseed and start planting...

[chipbutty24]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew3

Or better still do a Johnny Appleseed and start planting...

Anyone can build a guitar but it takes a true master to GROW a guitar.

The CS thing is easy to take shots at because...well...it's Fender. They're a big corporation. It's very cool though that ME takes the time to post here even if it seems like a losing proposition.

Thanks for posting Mike.

[Mike Eldred]

Originally Posted by dazzypig

I know I'm being overly cynical here, but what do you mean by 'shaped"?

Taken from the CNC and tweaked? Routed one at a time? Chisel, mallet and a keen eye?

We use one CNC to cut the neck pocket and interior routes.
1) The program was made off the original steel templates.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

The contours, edges, holes, and sanding are all done by hand. Contours are extremely different from year to year. a 59 will look completely different from a 66. All of that detail has to be hand done.

We use one CNC to cut the neck perimeter, fret slots, truss rod slot, face dots, neck mounting holes, and tuner holes. That's all.

1)The programs (again) are taken off of the original metal templates, as well as a original neck blank (un-shaped or sanded) loaned to us from George Fullerton.
2) The reason we use the CNC is because it maintains a tight neck pocket fit unlike a pin router that does not. That's why you see some old Fenders with gaps in the pockets.

Once that blank is routed, the side dots, truss rod stripe, face dots, and frets are all done by hand. The frets are put in one at a time by hand on one manual fret press (pic below). That fret press frets every neck from the FCS.

The neck is then taken to one of the original pin routers (see pic below) and rough shaped by hand. Then it is hand shaped to a V, C, or any custom shape requested. The blends at the headstock and butt are very vintage correct as well. It varied from year to year and those have to be precise.

We are shooting some videos now showing you how we do it. It is basically the same as it was done in the 50's and 60's, only the pocket fit is much better. Anybody can come to the factory and take the tour as well.

It is funny that some people envision a big building where trees go in one side, and guitars come out the other. Hopefully this will give you a little more perspective.

ME

Neck shaping original pin router:


FCS Fret Press: