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Old February 19th, 2012, 01:23 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andpeab View Post
"i frequently visit Mr kirns site to drool over the barnbusters and a custom barnbusterstarts at $1800 far less than even a normal custom shop fender.
so i think that begs the question what do you get from a masterbuilt fender that you don't get from guys like ron kirn?"

someone correct me if i'm mistaken, but the big difference is the type of operation. both offer a high level of customer service and communication throughout the planning and build process. both will build whatever the customer desires, within certain parameters. ron has the edge here because he is not limited to variations of the fender lineup. either choice will give you a beautifully crafted guitar of your dreams. but, yes, you will likely pay more for the masterbuilt. ron works for himself. cuts and finishes the bodies, finishes and shapes the necks, winds his pickups, he's the real deal. he markets himself with a great website and makes himself and his philosophy known on forums like this. he sells direct to the customer and has built a super reputation. fender's masterbuilders work for fender. they build guitars, they don't sell them. so, they draw a wage from fender and fender sells the guitars. fender has to make a profit above and beyond that wage, like any business. also, the dealer has to make a profit above and beyond the price fender sells to them. it's a situation that exists in many products besides guitars...custom made by an independent craftsman vs custom made by the elite division of a large name manufacturer. one can be more economical due to a direct marketing system without tiers of markups, combined with payroll, facilities, advertising, etc. one has the backing, reputation, and name recognition of a big established company. to many, there is value in that. the other has the exclusivity and status of the boutique builder and the cache that comes with that. is one "better" than the other? only the end user knows that answer. and that's the only person that matters.
I think your point is well taken...and since most Dudes need visuals, this

is why some of us tend to scratch our collective heads a tad on the pricing.

Plus....when did a '56 have a Rosewood neck & Board ?....I guess we can overlook that.......



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Old February 19th, 2012, 03:18 AM   #202 (permalink)
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I don't feel like anyone that works for Fender should be on here defending themselves or Fender.
why not? hell i'd be here contolling the damage if nothing else. if i bash your guitars or your post are you gonne chime in a defend yourself. ?

lets just bash the be-jesus out of a product on a website dedicated to the product.

...and one that uses the copywrited name of a product for the web address.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #203 (permalink)
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I don't understand the vitriol being expressed toward the FCS and Mike Eldred. I owned a CS Strat a several years ago. I loved that guitar. Unfortunately it was stolen from me or I would still own it. I waited 10 weeks for it after I ordered it and it was worth the wait. The fit and finish, workmanship and the overall vibe of the guitar was top notch. It arrived exactly as I ordered it. If I had the funds now I'd order another without any hesitation.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #204 (permalink)
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There's really not a whole lot wrong with the Custom Shop's business model when they sell every single thing they make!

As to the gap between the CS prices, and Ron's prices. My thoughts on that is that given the quality of Ron's work, and the demand for it, he could actually be charging a bit more than he does!
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Old February 19th, 2012, 07:10 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ron Garson View Post
There's really not a whole lot wrong with the Custom Shop's business model when they sell every single thing they make!

As to the gap between the CS prices, and Ron's prices. My thoughts on that is that given the quality of Ron's work, and the demand for it, he could actually be charging a bit more than he does!
not knocking fender for their pricing no one is forced to buy one.

but its interesting that you think ron kirn should charge more rather than fender charge less.

i think with the web people are able to compare soundclips and opinions the days where you can claim to be offering more or better without actually delivering more or better are coming to an end.

saying that perhaps as a performer the fender name is worth paying for as it comes with a level of respect and prestige from even non guitar players.

i still think we guitarists are the worst group of consumers when it comes to thinking if something costs more it must be better
(don't get me started on boutique pedals lol)
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Old February 19th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #206 (permalink)
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I don't understand the vitriol being expressed toward the FCS and Mike Eldred.
I don't think there's any vitriol, just a couple of "Dogs with a bone".
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Old February 19th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #207 (permalink)
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You know I have to say that I've learned some stuff here…

I mean I admit it when I go into the room at GC or see some For Sale stuff on line for Masterbuilt Strats & Teles for 5-6K, I'm like, for what…but after reading here about the attention given to one guitar by one guy, I guess I can see it…sure. (I'm not talking about any of the fancy over the top inlay stuff…or fake aging or any of that…just a basic Strat or Tele)

So it comes down to well is it worth it…I dunno? If you can afford it and you think so - then yeah.


Can we now get back to plain old Road Worns being available in the cool 50s/60s Custom Colors and a 9.5" Radius as an option and no sharp frets hanging off the edges of every guitar that comes out of there…oh yeah and some Rosewood Fretboard Teles from that era also...but I digress!

Great thread!
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Old February 19th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Where's the pic of the guy throwing keys at the rear of a new guitar. I guess there no such thing as a factory 2nd when you sell beat up guitars.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:35 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ron Garson View Post
There's really not a whole lot wrong with the Custom Shop's business model when they sell every single thing they make!

As to the gap between the CS prices, and Ron's prices. My thoughts on that is that given the quality of Ron's work, and the demand for it, he could actually be charging a bit more than he does!
+1
I don't always agree with everything Ron Kirn says, or how he says it, but there is no denying the guy is a craftsman.

When I see his tutorial outlining the entire process of him building a strat shape guitar, I scratch my head in wonder as to why he charges what he does.

I know a bit about woodworking and can't imagine the time needed to get those guitars as tight and detailed as he does.

Try recessing a strat jack plate without an elaborate jig, and then do it on the finished guitar.
It's fricken hard.

I don't own an RK or know anyone who does, but I know tough details when I see them.

His pricing along with guys like Danocaster seem more than fair for the amount of handwork involved on their guitars.

The Masterbuilt pricing doesn't surprise or bother me. I can't afford it, but that's the cost to get a custom guitar made by the Fender company.
I still love my production Fender Tele and the company that made it.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:36 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Good looking guitar. Are you just posting to add another Troll to this thread?
Just because I don't have 15000+ posts on this site, does not make me a troll. I think its the other way around. I was just posting what I felt about the subject.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Just because I don't have 15000+ posts on this site, does not make me a troll. I think its the other way around. I was just posting what I felt about the subject.
Keep smiling, cfox. I think CWK's comment was really directed toward the 'nother troll. +1 on that from me.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #212 (permalink)
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and then there's Ed Roman, who's website is a platform of hate against pretty much every manufacturer that not his own brand, sweet pics of classic guitars, and a few cougarish babes holding them...and I tell ya what, I'm not in any hurry to get in a debate with Ed Roman, but I'm always on his site looking at pics. (and for the record, the salesman we dealt with the one time we visited the vegas store was really really nice and helpful finding parts for us) But have you read Ed's Rants! He's probably right about a lot of stuff but JEEZ his website is more editorial than it is a web store or product info.

And also, there's a difference between a guy that works hard and does a great job at a major corporation (building whatever the customer requests and doing his best), and the major corporation itself. It's like that scene in Star Wars where the 2 storm troopers and just hanging out chatting with each other. Don't hate the builder, hate the game. (but in this case, none HAS to buy a Gibson or Fender, vote with yo dollaz, get an Antonio Tsai if you want - BEDAZZLED!)
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #213 (permalink)
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thanks for the historic insight !!!
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Old February 19th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #214 (permalink)
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I'm not in any hurry to get in a debate with Ed Roman,
It's probably gonna be awhile before he replies.



Serious black humor attempt!
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Old February 19th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #215 (permalink)
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It's probably gonna be awhile before he replies.
Ha, I hope so! He's scary.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Ha, I hope so! He's scary.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #217 (permalink)
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What do 'Master Builders' actually do?

better quality control then the standard assembly line at a greatly exaggerated price for people who like to spend money
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Old February 19th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #218 (permalink)
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What do 'Master Builders' actually do?

better quality control then the standard assembly line at a greatly exaggerated price for people who like to spend money
Not sure about the better quality control, but spot on on the exaggerated price for people which like to spend money.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #219 (permalink)
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something else just occurred to me that if fender did masterbuilt guitars for $2500 the demand would be such that they would have to employ hundreds of masterbuilders wich would make the whole idea less special.

fender have a pool of builders and i guess the select few that get masterbuilder status must really be something special. (fenders top guns if you will)

perhaps you have to consider it a collectors piece, the best fender has to offer from a massive pool of guitars and builders.

maybe theres your value right there

as a player rather than a collector i doubt i'll ever own one although i would like something custom built one day.
i will be focussed more on how it sounds and plays than anything else and it would be a guitar i'd have no problem gigging with in local bars
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Old February 19th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Going to (foolishly) wade into this. I'm no expert, but what I think master builders and men like Ron Kirn add is (at the very least) something intangible, but none the less real. Call it love, the force, positive energy, whatever. Sure it is just wood and metal, but, like those Dr. Masaru Emoto experiments where positive or negative thoughts are directed at water, then the water is frozen and the ice crystals are accordingly beautiful or mis-formed, one can feel the difference.
Anyone who has ever received a handmade birthday card from a first grader knows that it is somehow very different from a Hallmark card.

Last edited by Joe Sailor; February 19th, 2012 at 02:26 PM.
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