'68 Fretjob - take lacquer off neck as well?

[Fendher Bendher]

Taking my '68 to get a refret tomorrow. The frets are super close to the neck and have divits in them bringing the strings even closer. I basically can't grab onto the strings at this point. Not very playable and I plan to keep and play this one.

I was told the neck was refretted once and was probably resprayed (lacquer) again.

I've played some Custom Shops Teles that had the lacquer taken off the back of the necks (not sure if was taken off the front of the neck board) and I liked it. Smoother. Like how it felt like wood and not plastic, how my hand slid over it easier.

Any reason I should NOT have the lacquer or whatever that thick layer of shinny stuff is on my neck removed?

What about the layer on maple fret board?

thanks,
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[Rob DiStefano]

Unless you like a relic'ed looking fingerboard, it'll hafta get refinished.

Before heating and pulling a fret, and although the clear finish fillet on either side of the frets will get scored with a razor knife, that "dam" of clear coat that's left when the fret's been pulled will hafta get knocked down flat to the board before installing a new fret. That's why most maple boards hafta get sanded down and refinished before installing new frets.

So at the very least, the fingerboard will need to get leveled - and it'll look funky unless it's refinished. You want the board leveled so that the frets will go in as level as possible, therefore requiring only a light level and crown to get them to optimum playing condition.

The finish on the rest of the neck is up to your tastes.

[arnoudse]

I just finished a neck in tung oil, a ruh on stuff, and its really really really slick. I guess maple is a really dense wood or something. I have heard that necks will warp quicker if they are not finished, maybe not a huge deal, but remember the guitar is old. Other people know more about this warping than me... hope they chime in.

[Rob DiStefano]

IMO, ya gotta seal wood from the elements. No, nitrocellulose lacquer is NOT a good sealant - it's pretty much good for nothing as an enviromental barrier, but it's better than nothing at all. IMO, think: polyU or acrylic. If you don't seal the wood there's a fair chance it will warp. I see raw, unfinished and warped necks at least a few times a year. It takes only a 2-4 light sprays of polyU to adequately seal a neck, and with some light 4/0 steel wool buffing it'll still feel purty much like satin raw wood.

[Fendher Bendher]

the fretboard will be re-done no matter what.

And the back of the neck is up to me.

The real choice is a DIFFERENT type of sealant. Because without one the neck will be too exsposed to the elements and warp.

What type of sealant was on the '51 Custom Shop RI's (relic'd) I was trying out in the stores ?

The CS neck has the appearance of the laquer being rubbed off to the natural wood. Is there a spray they used? I guess some kind of oil (lemon?) isn't enough to keep from warping?

thanks,
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[0le FUZZY]

Fit waz mine and I liked a neck from a nutter guitar as yew dew I'd rip it off and put a new neck from the CS or where ever yew kin find won yew like.

I haff sanded down TELECASTER frets tew rid myseff of the divits and the frets were almost flat. They play fer me jes fine.

I really think yew gonna spend a lotta getus fer nuttin and may knott be happy with the final job.

This iss the way Leo intended it tew be and why he made em like he did.

Heck put an early 80s Bullet neck on it !!

Playability iss yer objective here I reckon sew find a neck that iss playable and save the old won fer the future.




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[slack]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Unless you like a relic'ed looking fingerboard, it'll hafta get refinished.

Before heating and pulling a fret, and although the clear finish fillet on either side of the frets will get scored with a razor knife, that "dam" of clear coat that's left when the fret's been pulled will hafta get knocked down flat to the board before installing a new fret. That's why most maple boards hafta get sanded down and refinished before installing new frets.

So at the very least, the fingerboard will need to get leveled - and it'll look funky unless it's refinished. You want the board leveled so that the frets will go in as level as possible, therefore requiring only a light level and crown to get them to optimum playing condition.

The finish on the rest of the neck is up to your tastes.

I have several, and see many vintage maple neck Teles which have been refretted without sanding the original finish completely off or refinishing the fretboard. It is becoming much prefered by many, myself included. Unless leveling work is necessitated by a problem. You will also find that while the refret alone does not necessarily devalue a vintage Tele, refinishing ANY part of the neck in the process can.

Like countless other Tele folks, I prefer no finish on the frets of my refretted necks, nor having been removed from them.

Each of these are examples (the regular 74 done by John Carruthers):

67
74 Custom
74

Now, obviously it requires skill and knowledge. I've got an orphaned 66 maple cap neck that was refretted this way as well, but it looks like crap in comparison to those.

[Jay N.]

When I had a '68, many moons ago, I had it refretted. I specifically asked the luthier NOT to remove any finish since I loved the worn in feel of lacquer, worn and not. He did a nice job on it and I was glad I asked him to do it that way.

I also had my Nocaster Relic refretted and asked to keep the original finish on. That refret worked out fine too. In that case, the luthier built up the lacquer around the frets after they were seated, IIRC.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by slack

I have several, and see many vintage maple neck Teles which have been refretted without sanding the original finish completely off or refinishing the fretboard. It is becoming much prefered by many, myself included. Unless leveling work is necessitated by a problem. You will also find that while the refret alone does not necessarily devalue a vintage Tele, refinishing ANY part of the neck in the process can.

Like countless other Tele folks, I prefer no finish on the frets of my refretted necks, nor having been removed from them.

Each of these are examples (the regular 74 done by John Carruthers):

67
74 Custom
74

Now, obviously it requires skill and knowledge. I've got an orphaned 66 maple cap neck that was refretted this way as well, but it looks like crap in comparison to those.

The two main concerns of a refret are function and aesthetics. If you pull the frets as carefully as your experience allows (maple boards can easily be scarred by the pulling pliers, particulary if the frets don't wanna come out - even with a lotta heat) and yet yer still left with remaining finish walls surrounding the fret slots, you have some choices: do nothing about this and go ahead and refret (a huge amateur mistake), try to knock them down and do as little damage to the overall board finish as possible, or refinish the f/b.

There are more than a few ways to "knock down the dams" and I've seen a video of Bryan Galloup using a single cut file to knock'em down (by filing parallel to the board) with not much abrading of the overall fingerboard, but this takes skill, patience, and lots of time. I've knocked'em flat using a combination of super sharp Uber blade and a fret dressing file at 90 degrees to the board so that only the dams (mostly) get hurt, but that takes a LOT of effort and time.

The best way to knock'em down and level the board is to bite the bullet and do just that - use a radius caul and abrassive paper and get back to a new fingerboard that's well prepped and prefinished for a refret, so that the frets will go in as level as possible (function rules over aesthetics for me).

If I did hafta refinish over the frets (Extremely unlikely!) that finish would come off anyway during the level and crown. I always level the frets after a refret.

And lastly, if you've got a catalyzed epoxy finished neck (Fender ala 1970's), you've got some Serious fret pulling and board finishing to do! (oh the horrors!)

Lotsa ways to skin a cat, I like mine, ain't none wrong or right, just different.

[mk]

Are you sure this neck is nitro? I'm going off these small pics on my laptop, but that looks like it could be the heavier poly death they started using in '68, and which got even thicker by the '70s. If so, it'll be a major job to remove. Though you might prefer just a bit of nitro, it'll heavily devalue it.

[Rob DiStefano]

You'll instantly know it's a catalyzed epoxy finish - it's thick, it's goopy, it's glossy plastic-like, it's hard as rock, it forms a huge dam against the fret sides, it cracks and chips when you pull out frets - it simply sux big time - what was Fender thinking? Oh wait, it was all about saving production time and money at the expense of future maintenance ... what was *I* thinking? ;)

[mk]

Geez, Rob, you're such a cynic. That's not a dam -- it's *scalloping*.

;-)

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by mk

Geez, Rob, you're such a cynic. That's not a dam -- it's *scalloping*.

;-)

Fender shudda used yer logic and spun it around to marketing hype! ;)

[Teletwang]

This discussion reminds me of those binding "nibs" on Gibsons. Isn't it just a whole lot easier to refret w/out working around them? Just a quick swipe of a chisel...
"there,there, that wasn't so bad."

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Teletwang

This discussion reminds me of those binding "nibs" on Gibsons. Isn't it just a whole lot easier to refret w/out working around them? Just a quick swipe of a chisel...
"there,there, that wasn't so bad."

IMO, it's nuts to work with those dumb nibs - they come off nice 'n' flush during the fretboard prep, prior to the refret. I think a fret that overlays over the binding, with nicely dressed and polished fret ends, looks so much better than that nibbed look.

[Fendher Bendher]

Thanks for the replys.

Fuzzy - the frets are already low as low can be meaning the divits are down to the board. No real way to file them off, there'd be no fret above the fretboard.

I asked the repairman to try to pull the frets to save the finish on the fretboard which proved to be next to impossible. It had been sprayed again with something thick when it was refretted before. It was splitting all over the place even with lots of heat and care. So the neckboard is getting refinished etc...

But I decided to wait on taking off the finish on the back of the neck. One step at a time I guess just to be safe.

I'm still thinking about that smooth no finish feel on the back of the neck though.

If I had the thick poly (double layer the tech pointed out) or whatever that layer is off what could we use to coat it with to protect it from warping?

thanks,
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[playon]

I've been through this a bunch of times, I've had countless maple necks refretted, because I prefer taller-than-stock frets. That guitar neck looks like 100% poly finish to me. If it was mine, as long as you are having the frets done I'd have everthing but the front of the headstock reshot in lightly tinted nitro laquer. It will feel a million times better, and look better too. And you won't believe how much more fun your guitar will be to play with new frets.

Al

[Fendher Bendher]

" If it was mine, as long as you are having the frets done I'd have everthing but the front of the headstock reshot in lightly tinted nitro laquer. "

Are you suggesting taking off the poly off the back of the neck?

If so, what about it warping with only the nitro on there as suggested in a previous post?

Any experience of that happening?
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[mk]

A neck properly finished in nitro isn't any more likely to warp than one done in poly. It would definitely be more comfortable (in my opinion). It would also devalue it, though. '68s are going up fast. I love my '68 nitro neck, but I'd be reluctant to refin a poly one.

[jjmantele]

Assuming your '68 neck is original poly, you could reduce it's stickyness by using 0000 steel wool and/or scotch pads. I did this on my '82 Strat on both the board and the back. It will eliminate the shine and reduce the stick. This is not as smooth playing as a satin lacquer IMHO but may get you where you want to be while increasing the value preservation.

When you are too old to play it, and it's time to sell, it'll be worth $60,000 instead of $40,000 assuming the poly is original on the back.

[Fendher Bendher]

"When you are too old to play it, and it's time to sell, it'll be worth $60,000 instead of $40,000 assuming the poly is original on the back."

Hmm, I don't think the poly is the original on the neck. I've had two different techs tell me the neck must of had an additional spraying when it was refretted the first time. So I think that means it is a neck that has the original poly sprayed over with an additional layer of poly. Look at the picture of the back of the neck with the bare spot and you can see how thick it is.

So where does that put the value or effect my choice of taking the poly off the back of the neck?

Once a neck is refretted on a vintage Tele how much does it devalue it?

Thanks for the inputs and keep 'em coming. I haven't gotten the guitar back but once I do I'll be able to play it more and really decide how much the poly bothers me. I really wasn't able to before because it was to close to unplayable with the frets so screwed up.
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