Blackguard prices

curtis · April 1st, 2005, 04:23 PM

What do you think are the current prices (assuming 100% original and Exc condition) for the following guitars?

a Broadcaster

a Nocaster

a 51 tele

a 52 tele

a 53 tele

a 54 tele?

Is it just me, or are there very few blackguards for sale at the moment, compared to say a year ago?

skiraly017 · April 2nd, 2005, 05:00 PM

The vintage room at Guitar Center in Hollywood will be more than happy to charge you $15k or better for a blackguard. The upside is you know it's been gone over with a fine-toothed comb and it's legit. The downside is taking a second mortgage out on your house. Prices are wickedly out of control and you're right, pickings are pretty slim these days.

Mark Davis · April 2nd, 2005, 05:52 PM

Broadcaster 30-35k
Nocaster 30-32k
52 Tele 20-25k
53 Tele 18-22k
54 Tele 16-20k

These prices arent set in stone but I have these models sell in those ranges recently.

slack · April 2nd, 2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiraly017

The upside is you know it's been gone over with a fine-toothed comb and it's legit

I would NEVER attribute that to the Vintage Room in HW. No way.

curtis · April 9th, 2005, 02:20 PM

Deleted

curtis · April 9th, 2005, 02:21 PM

About a year ago teles seemed to be going for about $18,000 (Rumbleseat).

There was some speculation at that time that private sellers were trying to sell at $14,000 but little interest from dealers. However, I couldn't find any private sellers!

Lately though dealer prices seem to have crept over $20,000 and I have seen a few in recent months around the $22,000 to $25,000 mark.

With 100% Exc teles in short supply, I find it hard to judge how prices differ for different years. It seems to me that people don't distinguish much between a 53 and a 54, but a 52 is definitely more desirable (perhaps worth an extra $3,000?)

I have never seen a 51 tele for sale so have no idea how much extra this would cost over a 52.

As for Nocasters, I have seen a few people offering these at $38,000 to $40,000 in the last year, but this seems pretty high and I wonder if they ever sold at that level.

Broads: I don't think I have ever seen a 100% original Broad for sale, let alone one in Exc condition. If one came up at $30-$35k I might be inclined to think that was a good deal (in relative terms!).

If anyone else has been following the market recently I would be very interested to hear your views.

playon · April 12th, 2005, 12:50 AM

Part of the deal is that the dollar has really lost value. For buyers in Europe everything at Rumble Seat Music is 30% off. So prices will rise to reflect that... beyond the vintage thing I think it's partly just plain old inflation. Vintage American guitars are desirable commodities that hold their value better than American money does.

That said, if you aren't too anal about it, you can still buy a great blackguard player with 80% correct parts (assuming original pickups) for $10-12k

galtjunk · April 12th, 2005, 05:55 AM

I was offered 30k last week for an all original 53 that has been rated excellent plus plus. The guy was from Germany.

curtis · April 12th, 2005, 06:08 AM

There was a 100% Exc 53 on Ebay a few months ago that had bids of up to 28k or 30k from memory and didn't meet the reserve.

What does Exc plus plus mean? Not mint, but no dings or wear at all?

I wonder if the UK dealers have kept their pricing static or have marked them up in line with US prices? eg there has been a 54 for sale in the UK for a long time at £18k that has always seemed like crazy pricing, but may soon be in line with market if dollar prices rise.

galtjunk · April 12th, 2005, 06:24 AM

Excellent plus plus would be 8.5 to 9 on a 1-10 scale.

The finish is almost white with almost no difference in color under the pickguard. There are a few very small nicks on the edges but you have to get close to see them. There is a slight amount of playing wear on the fretboard which is almost unavoidable with the light finish Fender used in the early years. It looks like it was made a few months ago instead of over 50 years ago.

curtis · April 12th, 2005, 06:27 AM

Wow - do you have any pictures?

galtjunk · April 12th, 2005, 07:03 AM

Some day I will learn to use my camera.

http://home.comcast.net/~gjunk/

Raymond · April 12th, 2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galtjunk

Some day I will learn to use my camera.

http://home.comcast.net/~gjunk/

That guitar is so clean that it's scary!!!! Very nice indeed. Man, don't ever sell it unless you really need the money. Your guitar is doing better than my 401k....

darkgable · April 12th, 2005, 10:07 AM

There are two price points really for anything, wholesale and retail. A "dealer" might pay around 15K-19K for a nice stock blackguard with correct case. He or she will have to mark that guitar up at least 30% to make some dough. I guess if you can find one from a private party and eliminate the middle man than that's the way to go. It's always a shock when one sees one of these for 22K and up yet if you try and sell one it would seem you'd have to take much less unless you were very lucky and found "deep pockets". Just my 2 cents worth.

tellypicker · April 12th, 2005, 10:21 AM

What I don't get is with the way these prices are and the way they are going, which is up, how does anyone feel comfortable buying something that is reported to be original? I mean, there are so may really good relicers out there and their work is so good, how can one tell if a purported original blackguard is really all there?? I'd be pretty nervous if I was thinking of dropping 20 large on one. Also, don't you think most of the original blackguards are already found and in circulation already, just staying in collections, passing from dealer to dealer in trades and from collector to collector? I think the pipe dream of the widow with her deceased husbands old guitar under the bed is long past...

galtjunk · April 12th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tellypicker

What I don't get is with the way these prices are and the way they are going, which is up, how does anyone feel comfortable buying something that is reported to be original? I mean, there are so may really good relicers out there and their work is so good, how can one tell if a purported original blackguard is really all there?? I'd be pretty nervous if I was thinking of dropping 20 large on one. Also, don't you think most of the original blackguards are already found and in circulation already, just staying in collections, passing from dealer to dealer in trades and from collector to collector? I think the pipe dream of the widow with her deceased husbands old guitar under the bed is long past...

I thought the pipe dream was dead until I found my 53 about 6 months ago in a small town of around 70 people. It had been sitting under the guys bed for about 20 years.

I can still happen.

curtis · April 12th, 2005, 01:30 PM

Thanks for the pictures Galtjunk - quite amazing!

How on Earth did you find it?

Freddy Fender · April 12th, 2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galtjunk

I thought the pipe dream was dead until I found my 53 about 6 months ago in a small town of around 70 people. It had been sitting under the guys bed for about 20 years.

I can still happen.

How did you find out about it? Do you have constant ads in the papers or was it just by chance?

Ty5 · April 12th, 2005, 06:24 PM

The bridge, pickguard and strings do not seem to line up in the above picture. Maybe I need a new monitor.

Tony B (Ty5)

Mur · April 12th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

how can one tell if a purported original blackguard is really all there?

Buying old instruments is straight forward. If it's from out of town, you have time to inspect (24 to 72 hrs depending on seller) and if you need help, take it to someone that knows. My '53 got inspected, dissected, and authenticated by Alan Hamel.

galtjunk · April 13th, 2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy Fender

Quote:

Originally Posted by galtjunk

I thought the pipe dream was dead until I found my 53 about 6 months ago in a small town of around 70 people. It had been sitting under the guys bed for about 20 years.

I can still happen.

How did you find out about it? Do you have constant ads in the papers or was it just by chance?

I met the guy at a graduation party and he mentioned that he had an old Fender guitar and amp. He wasn't sure what it was. Every time I saw him I asked if he was interested in selling it. He didn't want to sell and I could not get him to show it to me. I was starting to believe that it really didn't exist. He called on day and asked me to make an offer. His wife brought the guitar and amp for me to examine. The amp is a mint condition 51 Deluxe. I made an offer. He accepted. Now it is mine.

Freddy Fender · April 13th, 2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galtjunk

Now it is mine.

The Telecaster God was smiling on you that day. Congrats!

April 1st, 2005, 04:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	Blackguard prices What do you think are the current prices (assuming 100% original and Exc condition) for the following guitars? a Broadcaster a Nocaster a 51 tele a 52 tele a 53 tele a 54 tele? Is it just me, or are there very few blackguards for sale at the moment, compared to say a year ago?

April 2nd, 2005, 05:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
skiraly017 Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 674	Well... The vintage room at Guitar Center in Hollywood will be more than happy to charge you $15k or better for a blackguard. The upside is you know it's been gone over with a fine-toothed comb and it's legit. The downside is taking a second mortgage out on your house. Prices are wickedly out of control and you're right, pickings are pretty slim these days. __________________ "But right now I need a Telecaster through a Vibrolux turned up to ten."

April 9th, 2005, 02:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	posted twice in error Deleted

April 9th, 2005, 02:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	Blackguard prices - 100% original, Exc condition About a year ago teles seemed to be going for about $18,000 (Rumbleseat). There was some speculation at that time that private sellers were trying to sell at $14,000 but little interest from dealers. However, I couldn't find any private sellers! Lately though dealer prices seem to have crept over $20,000 and I have seen a few in recent months around the $22,000 to $25,000 mark. With 100% Exc teles in short supply, I find it hard to judge how prices differ for different years. It seems to me that people don't distinguish much between a 53 and a 54, but a 52 is definitely more desirable (perhaps worth an extra $3,000?) I have never seen a 51 tele for sale so have no idea how much extra this would cost over a 52. As for Nocasters, I have seen a few people offering these at $38,000 to $40,000 in the last year, but this seems pretty high and I wonder if they ever sold at that level. Broads: I don't think I have ever seen a 100% original Broad for sale, let alone one in Exc condition. If one came up at $30-$35k I might be inclined to think that was a good deal (in relative terms!). If anyone else has been following the market recently I would be very interested to hear your views.

April 12th, 2005, 12:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
playon TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 31	prices... Part of the deal is that the dollar has really lost value. For buyers in Europe everything at Rumble Seat Music is 30% off. So prices will rise to reflect that... beyond the vintage thing I think it's partly just plain old inflation. Vintage American guitars are desirable commodities that hold their value better than American money does. That said, if you aren't too anal about it, you can still buy a great blackguard player with 80% correct parts (assuming original pickups) for $10-12k

April 2nd, 2005, 05:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mark Davis Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bakersfield Ca. Age: 58 Posts: 12,876	Broadcaster 30-35k Nocaster 30-32k 52 Tele 20-25k 53 Tele 18-22k 54 Tele 16-20k These prices arent set in stone but I have these models sell in those ranges recently.

April 12th, 2005, 05:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
galtjunk TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 60 5 Photos	Blackguard prices I was offered 30k last week for an all original 53 that has been rated excellent plus plus. The guy was from Germany.

April 12th, 2005, 06:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	Blackguard prices There was a 100% Exc 53 on Ebay a few months ago that had bids of up to 28k or 30k from memory and didn't meet the reserve. What does Exc plus plus mean? Not mint, but no dings or wear at all? I wonder if the UK dealers have kept their pricing static or have marked them up in line with US prices? eg there has been a 54 for sale in the UK for a long time at £18k that has always seemed like crazy pricing, but may soon be in line with market if dollar prices rise.

April 12th, 2005, 06:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
galtjunk TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 60 5 Photos	Blackguard prices Excellent plus plus would be 8.5 to 9 on a 1-10 scale. The finish is almost white with almost no difference in color under the pickguard. There are a few very small nicks on the edges but you have to get close to see them. There is a slight amount of playing wear on the fretboard which is almost unavoidable with the light finish Fender used in the early years. It looks like it was made a few months ago instead of over 50 years ago.

April 12th, 2005, 06:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	Blackguard prices Wow - do you have any pictures?

April 12th, 2005, 07:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
galtjunk TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 60 5 Photos	Blackguard prices. Some day I will learn to use my camera. http://home.comcast.net/~gjunk/

April 12th, 2005, 10:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
darkgable Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 286	There are two price points really for anything, wholesale and retail. A "dealer" might pay around 15K-19K for a nice stock blackguard with correct case. He or she will have to mark that guitar up at least 30% to make some dough. I guess if you can find one from a private party and eliminate the middle man than that's the way to go. It's always a shock when one sees one of these for 22K and up yet if you try and sell one it would seem you'd have to take much less unless you were very lucky and found "deep pockets". Just my 2 cents worth.

April 12th, 2005, 10:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
tellypicker Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 340	What I don't get is with the way these prices are and the way they are going, which is up, how does anyone feel comfortable buying something that is reported to be original? I mean, there are so may really good relicers out there and their work is so good, how can one tell if a purported original blackguard is really all there?? I'd be pretty nervous if I was thinking of dropping 20 large on one. Also, don't you think most of the original blackguards are already found and in circulation already, just staying in collections, passing from dealer to dealer in trades and from collector to collector? I think the pipe dream of the widow with her deceased husbands old guitar under the bed is long past... __________________ What would Scooby Do?

April 12th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
curtis Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Greenwich UK Posts: 109	53 Exc plus plus! Thanks for the pictures Galtjunk - quite amazing! How on Earth did you find it?

April 12th, 2005, 06:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ty5 TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lewiston, Maine Age: 65 Posts: 29	The bridge, pickguard and strings do not seem to line up in the above picture. Maybe I need a new monitor. Tony B (Ty5)