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Old November 26th, 2011, 01:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Pine?

What Fender guitars were actually made from pine? All the Broadcasters, nocasters, and early Telecasters I've seen online were made of ash.

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Old November 26th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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mine ;) (sorry it's the super rare dad and son built tele FSR) I think the snakehead was pine though. and some earlier esquire prototypes
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Old November 26th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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the "snake Head" prototype and a handful of the Broadcasters... they were pretty much history by '51..

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Old November 26th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When you say 'were', yes the late 40s Proto B-Caster with the snake headstock. But there are current offering across the line more recently than the 1950 [48?] proto. The Squier CV50 to the CS Closet Classic, small price spread for those two to each other. ;)
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Old November 26th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yeah the snake head was pine, although it was a single pickup design. I've read that some of the earlier broadcasters were made of pine.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 03:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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noob question is there a reason pine isn't used more in guitars?
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Old November 26th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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noob question is there a reason pine isn't used more in guitars?
Partly tradition - ash, alder, mahogany, and maple are the traditional woods used in most electric guitar builds. Traditions die hard in the world of guitars.

Partly wood characteristics: pine is a softer wood so it's easier to strip screw holes, dent (unless you have a hard poly finish), etc.

Partly reputation: people think of pine as a 'cheap' wood.

I've assembled a few guitars using sugar pine bodies and I love how resonant it can be. But it does ding really easily if you put a nitro or Tru Oil finish on it.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
is there a reason pine isn't used more in guitars?
Until recently there hasn't been much "call" for it.... but that aside... Pine, New pine, and by that I mean anything less than 50 years old. isn't all that great a wood to use in guitar..... it's darn near impossible to get a good finish to stick to it....

Older wood is another thing though....


when quality lumber is produced for furniture, guitars, the Dash of your Jaguar, what ever... it is "dried" to about 10% or less... that takes care of the water content....
But as most of us Southern boys, grown' up down here know.... Pine's got sap... that sap.... more correctly known as resins. takes about 50 years to solidify... until that happens. It remains a gooey gelatinous mass of goop locked inside the wood's cells..Ever try to get sound to pass through a Jar of Jelly? You can imagine....

Different Wood's resins take different lengths of times to solidify . . all decades.... If I recall, Bill Lawrence told me, (Bill tells, he doesn't "share" ) Ash and Alder take about 30 years.... Maple about 40, and pine 50. Now ya know what all "that" is about those old Martins, Gibsons, etc...Was Lloyd Loar that good, or was it just that long ago??

So... If you're gonna build a few hundred thousand guitars You gotta find a boat load (literally) of old pine.... problem with old Pine... it usually comes from Old Buildings.... assembled with Old Nails....


So... those Old nails... etc have to be removed.... pretty much by hand with metal detector and hand tools... very time consuming..."time Consuming" = man hours... man hours = pay checks... Pay checks = cost of production.... cost of production = higher MSRP.. so .. at some point the cost of production pushes the sales price so high that the target number of units sold to make manufacturer of the guitar profitable cannot be achieved... and the idea dies...

So if ya want something unique ... cool, call the Custom Shop... If a few thousand call 'em wanting pretty much the same thing... that info's gonna make it's way to "Corp" and someone's gonna say... Hey... let's crank out a few train loads of this style guitar.... then the "bean counters" enter the fray.. then push numbers and paper,, come back and say it's gonna hafta sell for 2800 bux /// then the Marketing guys come on board and say Hell... we can't move the stuff we got for half that in this economy.. let's kill it.... and that idea gets flushed... then someone will say. . . Hey... Great.... 9:30 AM... we can still get a T time...


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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ronkirn View Post
Until recently there hasn't been much "call" for it.... but that aside... Pine, New pine, and by that I mean anything less than 50 years old. isn't all that great a wood to use in guitar..... it's darn near impossible to get a good finish to stick to it....

Older wood is another thing though....


when quality lumber is produced for furniture, guitars, the Dash of your Jaguar, what ever... it is "dried" to about 10% or less... that takes care of the water content....
But as most of us Southern boys, grown' up down here know.... Pine's got sap... that sap.... more correctly known as resins. takes about 50 years to solidify... until that happens. It remains a gooey gelatinous mass of goop locked inside the wood's cells..Ever try to get sound to pass through a Jar of Jelly? You can imagine....

Different Wood's resins take different lengths of times to solidify . . all decades.... If I recall, Bill Lawrence told me, (Bill tells, he doesn't "share" ) Ash and Alder take about 30 years.... Maple about 40, and pine 50. Now ya know what all "that" is about those old Martins, Gibsons, etc...Was Lloyd Loar that good, or was it just that long ago??

So... If you're gonna build a few hundred thousand guitars You gotta find a boat load (literally) of old pine.... problem with old Pine... it usually comes from Old Buildings.... assembled with Old Nails....


So... those Old nails... etc have to be removed.... pretty much by hand with metal detector and hand tools... very time consuming..."time Consuming" = man hours... man hours = pay checks... Pay checks = cost of production.... cost of production = higher MSRP.. so .. at some point the cost of production pushes the sales price so high that the target number of units sold to make manufacturer of the guitar profitable cannot be achieved... and the idea dies...

So if ya want something unique ... cool, call the Custom Shop... If a few thousand call 'em wanting pretty much the same thing... that info's gonna make it's way to "Corp" and someone's gonna say... Hey... let's crank out a few train loads of this style guitar.... then the "bean counters" enter the fray.. then push numbers and paper,, come back and say it's gonna hafta sell for 2800 bux /// then the Marketing guys come on board and say Hell... we can't move the stuff we got for half that in this economy.. let's kill it.... and that idea gets flushed... then someone will say. . . Hey... Great.... 9:30 AM... we can still get a T time...


rk
What about the Squire Classic Vibe Telecaster? Is it a poor tonewood because its new pine or is it just going to have a very thick poly finish?
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I didn't say new pine was a poor tone wood... I just said it's not a very good choice for a guitar...

there are many different species of pine.. some of which are considerably less resinous than others..

Since the overall sonic signature of a guitar is a composite of many factors coming together...the Squire can be a very good guitar... In something like the Squire... the things that would most adversely impact a guitarists opinion of the voice, would have more to do with personal prejudices regarding the components and the way it was manufactured than anything else..

If you have a guitar... any guitar, and it can be tuned reasonably accurately .. it is impossible for a guitarist, even a great guitarist, to push it beyond it's ability to be a guitar. remember the key.. If you are "good" no one gives a crap what you are playing or about an analysis of the sonics. And if you suck.. No one cares either.. they just want you to stop!!!

If you are an amateur.. there is only one person on the planet that cares about the sound out of your gear.. that would be you.... and if a Pro, it's the same except... there may be a couple of "creative types" in the "up-chain" that have "editorial authority" but that's it...

"You" are the most important variable in the complete sonic equation and strangely enough... No one ever seems to wanna "mod" that...

rk
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Old November 26th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I made a beautiful cedar tele out of an old cedar 4x4. Resonates beautifully. Sounds incredible plugged in.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have one of the limited run "Old Pine" models released for the 60th anniversary. Beautiful sound, even unplugged, super light weight. I'm sure the white wash finish is pretty fragile, but I'm looking forward to making my own relic!
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