It's Back.............on eBay 77 Double Bound (yeah right)

[CSS]

Here is the infamous 77 Custom double bound that they quit making in 72. By the way, I have seen this guitar in person at the Guitar Center in Atlanta. Looks like it just left the factory. Must have been "unda da bed" for 25 years.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=38 082

[RichardL]

Could be '77 maple neck on a MIJ '62 RI body. That body sure looks like just about every CAR MIJ '62 RI I've seen. It would be interesting to get some nitty gritty pictures of the neck pocket or under the control panel. But wait its Intrument Exchange.....

[TeleGeir]

Originally Posted by RichardL

Fender Japan used serial numbers begining with S from '94 to '95. What you want to bet that's just a MIJ '62 RI with a serial number that looks like S7xxxxx. Which could be mistake for a USA made Fender serial number from '77 except that its going to be on the back of the neck below the MIJ logo and not on the headstock below the Fender logo where is would be on a '77 Telecaster.

Hard to tell from the small pictures. It definitely could be a '62RI body, but then the fretboard should have been rosewood. I cannot see a hint of the serialnumber anywhere, of course it would be so small that it wouldn't show up anyway.

Doesn't look to have threaded saddles either, again it is hard to tell...

Hmmm... Maybe I should ask for pictures.

Geir :)

[TeleGeir]

Originally Posted by TeleGeir

Hmmm... Maybe I should ask for pictures.

I decided this was worth a bit looking in to, and sent them the following:

Hi. I am a big fan (and small time collector) of double bound Telecasters. I must admit this item has me a bit puzzled. I have never seen a '77 double bound, and Fender AFAIK didn't make them. They discontinued the Custom years earlier, and didn't make DBs for long time. So I would appreciate more information and details about the origin of this guitar. Also I'd like to see better pictures if possible. Especially:
* Close up of the bridge
* Close up of headstock.
* Close up of serialnumber position
Ultimately, if no real provenance has been established, I suggest that pictures of neck pocket and detached neck heel would help serious bidders consider this item.
Finally, the ad says "all original or upgraded hardware." If any hardware has been upgraded, what would that be?

I'll post any replies.

Geir :)

[RichardL]

Hi. I am a big fan (and small time collector) of double bound Telecasters. I must admit this item has me a bit puzzled. I have never seen a '77 double bound, and Fender AFAIK didn't make them. They discontinued the Custom years earlier, and didn't make DBs for long time. So I would appreciate more information and details about the origin of this guitar. Also I'd like to see better pictures if possible. Especially:
* Close up of the bridge
* Close up of headstock.
* Close up of serialnumber position
Ultimately, if no real provenance has been established, I suggest that pictures of neck pocket and detached neck heel would help serious bidders consider this item.
Finally, the ad says "all original or upgraded hardware." If any hardware has been upgraded, what would that be?

I would add "Picture of control assembly" to your list of detailed photos requested. One look at the pots and switch would tell if its MIA or MIJ.

My guess is that this is a parts-caster. Best-case: its a '77 maple Tele neck on a refin 60's Custom Tele body. Probably worth what they are asking, if this is the case. Worst-case: its a '77 maple Tele neck on a MIJ '62 RI body (Fender or even Fernandez). Definately not worth what they are asking, if this is the case.

The line "...all original or upgraded hardware..." appears in almost every IE ad so it must be a standard item description the listing sellers can choose. If they folks at IE don't know that makes a big difference in the value of an instrument, that is pretty sad.

[Steve McGinnis]

We have had discussions about this guy before. As far as I can tell, he is just a third party running auctions for music stores. That is fine by me, and he is relatively up front about it, but he seems to have NO expertise??? He lists things over and over at crazy prices, and misrepresents alot of stuff, not just this tele. I wonder if he is paying the listing fees, or has some kind of deal with Ebay....

[bpoe]

The notch is not of the 1972-1982 geometry.
Take a look at Fuzzy's illustration;

[Kevin]

It's a company, just like eBay.

We don't say that eBay has "no expertise" because of the ads on there, do we?

The ads from Instrument Exchange are written by the seller, to be posted on Instrument Exchange's website. They aren't all dealer ads, either. Anyone can post there.

It seems that IE and eBay have now set up some kind of deal in which ads on IE are automatically entered on eBay, as well. It's kind of funny when IE was started as an eBay alternative for musical gear....

I do wish that people would try to understand what IE is before they post message saying that "this seller is bad". They're only selling a service -- and they're selling the service to the seller -- not to eBay bidders.

If an ad is bad, complain the idiot who wrote it -- not the company who is charging the author to post it.

FYI, this is from the IE site.

eBay and Instrument Exchange Partner To Offer The Ultimate Auction Experience!

NOW Musicians can double their chances of selling their instruments within 1 week! By completing the IE list form, musicians can simultaneously post their instruments into the 2 largest instrument marketplaces in the world, IE and eBay!

Why pay third party companies to:
Create professional-looking listings, which are crucial to
successful auctions?
Utilize auction management software to help keep up
with your listings?
Securely accept funds from buyers?
Ship your products? (We enable you to generate shipping
labels automatically and then dispatch FedEx to your door)
When IE does this all for you!

[Pedalworld]

:?

[RichardL]

The notch is not of the 1972-1982 geometry.

From the two rather distant photos provided you can see the notch?

Anyway I don't think the "notch" rules apply to bound body telecasters.

[Steve McGinnis]

I do wish that people would try to understand what IE is before they post message saying that "this seller is bad". They're only selling a service -- and they're selling the service to the seller -- not to eBay bidders.

I don't see why I have to understand IE. I am viewing the products from this seller on Ebay, I understand Ebay.

If IE is only a company providing a service, good for them, but if they are only an intermediary why do I see their feedback? One of the main pillars of the Ebay model" is the whole feedback system.

While you are correct, I do not expect Ebay to have expertise, I do expect the sellers to have expertise or to state that they do not. I use the feedback of users extensively to determine whether to bid and how much. As long as IE is presented in the Ebay interface as a seller, I can easily state that they have no expertise (as a seller, because as you state, it could be anyone) and they are a bad seller.

[TeleGeir]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's a company, just like eBay.

We don't say that eBay has "no expertise" because of the ads on there, do we?

The ads from Instrument Exchange are written by the seller, to be posted on Instrument Exchange's website. They aren't all dealer ads, either. Anyone can post there.

It seems that IE and eBay have now set up some kind of deal in which ads on IE are automatically entered on eBay, as well. It's kind of funny when IE was started as an eBay alternative for musical gear....

I do wish that people would try to understand what IE is before they post message saying that "this seller is bad". They're only selling a service -- and they're selling the service to the seller -- not to eBay bidders.

If an ad is bad, complain the idiot who wrote it -- not the company who is charging the author to post it.

Well, Kevin, I'd say yes and no! Factually you may have a point.

But the thing is that IE deliberately fronts the seller. Who remains invisible. You buy from IE, not from whoever hired them.

When you see an IE ad on eBay for a guitar, then seller is listed as IE, it is IE that gets feedback, and IE you have to contact, and IE you pay to(!). Also, apart from a couple of sentences in the "About" section and the return policy, everything they write in their ads presents IE as the seller. So the service they are selling to the seller is that of selling his items to you. Not just advertising it, but everything from ad to payment.

The original seller has a deal with IE, not with you. When you press that button on the bid form, you are bidding on an item from IE. IE is therefore your contractual partner, and who you would sue over misrepresentation. (Though assuming their return policies is as good as they claim, it sounds like that would not be an issue.) They maybe didn't write the ad, or take the pictures, but they have accepted responsibility for it by posting it on eBay in their name.

Therefore, while you cannot easily complain to the "idiot who wrote it", you can complain to IE, who at their discression found it appropriate to make the blurb public.

So this popular misunderstanding they have brought upon themselves, IMHO. And therefore deserve any valid critisism over it.

I for one would happily complain to a TV channel if the choose to air a no good program, whether they made it themselves or not. Or even a lie of a commercial. They do have the right to refuse. Just as IE could impose some sort of minimum standard on the ads they accept.

Unless I misunderstood something here...

Geir :)

[RichardL]

If IE is only a company providing a service, good for them, but if they are only an intermediary why do I see their feedback? One of the main pillars of the Ebay model" is the whole feedback system.

In the case of IE ebay's feedback model doesn't really work for the buyer at all. Since the actual sellers are hidden from you the ebay buyer you have no way of knowing on an individual transaction if the seller is to be trusted in his description of the item and if he will deliver the goods as promised.

Judging from the negative feedback IE has garnered so far, it looks like they need to better educate / police their seller community. The major complaint of ebays is that the invisible IE seller sold items out from under them. If IE doesn't get that under control the whole thing will lose all credibility and just go away anyway.

The three legs of successful business model are 1) have a product / service that someone wants, 2) price competitively and 3) provide quality customer service. IE only got the first one covered right now.

[CSS]

TeleGeir, Amen brother !! If someone lists an item on eBay, it is THEIR responsibilty to make certain it is correct. That is the problem with being a middle man. If they don't verify the items, what are they getting paid for? I mean, how hard is it to list an item duhhhhh.

Let me get this right, if I were to bid on an item listed by this guy/people/organization/company whatever, I am really buying it from someone who the seller has never met, knows nothing about the product, can't even confirm that the item even exists, much less guaramtee it is shipped from the owner to me? Ha.......... As my favorite saying in my little boy's Toy Story movie says " NOT TODAY BUZZ".

[CSS]

Oh yeah, check out Guitar Centers website and click vintage, You get:

http://www.vintageguitars.net/index.cfm

Then click for auctions and you get IE with GC's logo at the top and a little thing saying they are owned by exchangeblvd.com for something like that.

CONFUSING !!

So, who are you buying from, the owner of the instrument, Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, Instrument Exchange, or Exchange Blvd ??

Feedback? Why should they worry about that? They have 2000 auctions going on and items that people want no matter what. Well, maybe some people want.

[TeleGeir]

Originally Posted by CSS

TeleGeir, Amen brother !! If someone lists an item on eBay, it is THEIR responsibilty to make certain it is correct. That is the problem with being a middle man.

Yes. I saw an interesting one from a private seller the other day: "I am selling this for someone else. Therefore don't ask me questions and don't give me feedback." :?

IE should indeed step up to the task they claim to be able to perform so well and stop referring to the invisible "seller" when high dollar items are listed with no good information. People will blame them anyway, and their reputation will go down the drain. Potential sellers will shy away from them. So it is in their best interest to be selective about the ads they accept.

Geir :)

[TeleGeir]

Here is the reply:

The guitar you're looking at is a custom Tele, not really a Tele Custom. It was made in 1977 as a movie prop, hence the flame neck. It has a letter of authenticity from Bill Carson, author of the Fender book. I opened the cavity and the pickups are correct with no breaks in the solder joints and the correct body finish. The neck is also 100% original, no refin. Let me know. Thanks!

So no we know. Worth the asking price? Not for me to say. Maybe if it was a really famous/cult movie it could have some added value from that.

Didn't get any pictures though...

Geir :)

[TeleGeir]

IE has been on eBay for 2 months now. And they have close to 2000 items listed. Still they have only 70 feedback so far! :?

Say they started at scratch (which they didn't), that is with only 1 or 2 items the first week, and built up to todays 2000. That gives an average of 1000 items. And say their auctions run for 10 days. Then they should have listed at least 6000 items by now. 70 feedback means only 1% (or 2% if we give them credit for sales that happened but hasn't produced feedback) has actually sold.

I just saw one item appear again that I swear I saw in one of their very first ads, and at least twice later. Maybe they still aren't selling that much...

Geir :)

[bpoe]

IMO if this was a custom guitar, "made by hand", then it would have this type of notch.

[Johnny V.]

So far all of the auctions I've seen from I.E. have been a joke-lousy pictures (and few of them) sketchy and poor descriptions and absurdly high starting bids with even more absurd buy it now prices.If someone bids and wins one of these auctions then feels ripped off they did NO homework at all. With all the resources available today there's no reason to fall for their bull!
I'm not defending them-I hate auction listings like these because they are the type that gives all of eBay it's bad reputation. Fifteen negatives on eighty feedbacks....even if the deals were good, I'd still stay away!

[RichardL]

The notch, zoomed up close

If you can see the notch in this photo,

you've much better eyes than me my friend.

[CSS]

Wonder why they did not tell me that when Ilooked at the guitar in person. The Gtr Ctr in Atlanta has that guitar hanging on their wall. No one could tell me it was for real other than the had a letter from Fender that it was a Telecaster CUSTOM. Never said custom made tele. I asked about the letter and was never shown it. So, I drove my 150 miles back home with nothing but a few sets of strings.