My Muddy Waters Tele... (sorry if it's a bit long)

TomK · January 10th, 2005, 03:44 PM

Here is a partial review of my new MW for those who are interested in the Mud...

Body
Nice, bright CAR finish---obviously a bit thick, but pretty flawless otherwise. No lip on the neck pocket or router hump. Neck pocket seems a bit shallower than vintage (maybe 1/8" or so). Ash body, but I have no idea how many pieces have been glued up to make it.

Neck
Excellent feel! It has a "C" shape, but is chunkier than the "C" profile you find on the US and Custom Shop early-60's reissues. Satin finish poly is smooth and dry with a nice tint. Peghead outline is close enough, but transition from neck to peghead is more modern than vintage (no nice tadeo taper on the back and more dramatic angle from nut the string posts). It reminds me of the two MIJ Teles I once owned. It's not bad, just different.

Fretboard
Hmm. I have mixed feelings here. The board is smooth and playable enough with nice big frets (well, after a quarter-turn tweek of the rod) but the 'rosewood' is so-so. I understand that at this price I won't get a primo piece of wood for the board, but the stain used to make it look more even-colored covers my fingertips. I've tried dry-buffing it off and then went to naptha, but it's still there... The grain is also quite uneven, BUT playability doesn't suffer, so it's really a cosmetic issue.

The frets are leveled well enough, and there are no sharp ends, but the ends are not polished at all. Also, some careless filiing has gone through the stain on the edges of the board revealing lighter wood. But again, it's cosmetic.

Hardware
Tuners are Ping (not Gotoh) made for Fender. They work just fine, but have a slightly spongier feel than the Gotoh variety. Also, they look a bit different: the gear housing is deeper and more boxy while the taper on the string post extends lower and the bushing appears smaller giving them a slightly different look. The butterfly tree is screwed down to the face with no spacer.

Strap buttons are, well, strap buttons with no felt washer.

The pressed jack cup does not fit flush into the body. Another recent MW purchaser here noted the same oversight on his guitar as well. It sticks out almost 1/8". I'm guessing finish build-up has reduced the diameter of the hole, but I haven't pulled it apart to check as it's working fine for me as is.

The switchplate, bridge tray and brass saddles appear to be standard US Fender fare. I do have the saddles adjusted pretty high to compensate for the shallower neck pocket (see above) but this actually makes the guitar more comfortable as no height-adjustment screws are digging into my hand. One of the bridge mounting screws is a bit off-center.

The amp knobs are functional and make good sense if you don't keep your volume and tone wide-open---but the irony here is that they are much harder to adjust on the fly due to their smaller diameter and minimal friction.

Switch tip is a basic top-hat tip that fits snuggly.

Pickguard has the extra screws Muddy style, but I switched to a parchment-colored 5-hole guard due to cosmetic preference. Otherwise the guard is basic, square-edge single-ply white plastic.

Electronics
Pots and switch are full-size and resemble those used in the US-made Teles. I didn't look closely to see a manufacturer, but they all feel of good quality and quiet operation (unlike their overseas counterparts). A small ceramic disc cap is used for the tone circuit.

The wiring is a combination of cloth-covered vintage style on the pickups (see below) and modern plastic insulated wire. All appear to be well connected.

Pickups
Admit it, you scrolled down to this part, didn't you...

The neck pickup is okay, not bad, not fantastic, just okay. It is not the "full-drawn" cover which extends down to the base, but you only would know that if you pull the pickguard. The tone is a bit too dull for me as I really like using the neck pickup for twangy Luther Perkins style stuff---however, it's not so bad that I want to replace it immediately...I'm going to give it a chance.

Now the bridge pickup is the cat's pajamas! I'm very impressed with its bright, open tone--think Roy B snapping that G string on "Haunted House." It also sounds fantastic for overdriven rock tones. It has height-staggered poles (which are not bevelled) so it's not exactly like the 52 AVRI pickup. It is also pretty loud, but I would never say it sounds over-wound (like, say, the darker Texas Tele tone).

Both pickups have vintage-style cloth-covered leads. I haven't had a chance to measure their output for those who are into the numbers.

Gig bag
It's a gig bag. :( (But it did have a sample of the 'mist and wipe' polish in the pocket.) I've got a gently used tweed case on the way...

OVERALL
My Muddy weighs in around 7.8 lbs. ... which is considerably lighter than my bender-equipped Tele so it feels like a feather to me.

Fit and finish (other than the jack cup) are great, basic tone is great (body resonates pretty well), very playable neck, good looks...

If you were going to max out your lifetime Tele dollars at $500 (you'd probably be kidding to yourself if you are like me) then I honestly can say the Muddy Waters is a wise choice--lots of vintage Tele vibe and tone for a fair price.

Here endeth the reading.

shakedancer · January 10th, 2005, 03:57 PM

Great review!!!!

Cb · January 10th, 2005, 05:43 PM

A terrific review indeed. I think we can all learn from TomK's fine example.

Cb :P

Mark Davis · January 10th, 2005, 06:17 PM

I wish everyone did reviews that good!

That left no stone unturned great and honest review.

nedray · January 10th, 2005, 06:39 PM

I'm the other guy that complained about the jack cup and, unlike your good overview, I just complained about that and the sloppyish job on the fretboard. Sounds as if yours is very similar to mine. I was going to send it back but then I got to playing it and I just haven't gotten around to parting with it.

If anything, I think I like it better than you (TomK) seem to. In fact you might want to play with that neck pup a little to see if a tweak in height doesn't dial it in. Mine is nice and fat and the tone pot has a huge tonal range, giving it everything from growl to chime. Of course neck pup tone is very subjective.

By the way, the misfit cup doesn't seem to be caused by the hole being too small, at least not totally. On mine, the cross brace that holds the jack itself in place isn't deep enough in the hole, so there's not enough room to push the cup flat. I'm not sure quite how to fix that, but it works, so I guess there's no rush.

Anyway, it's good to hear another take on the instrument.

timgreene · January 10th, 2005, 07:17 PM

I like mine, got it about a month ago, brand new. Jack cup is fine. Did'nt notice all of the neck fret issues. Only flaw in mine was one of the tuner bushings was not flush with the headstock.

I thought, I read the guitars go through a final inspection, and playing, before they are shipped?

Mine arrived tuned down 1/2 step, but in tune. Blues out of the box. I like both pickups just fine.

The first review missed the fact that the skirted volume knob drags on the front control plate screw.

Good honest reviews, on a guitar that has much praise.

Oldschoolwax · January 10th, 2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedray

I'm the other guy that complained about the jack cup and, unlike your good overview, I just complained about that and the sloppyish job on the fretboard. Sounds as if yours is very similar to mine. I was going to send it back but then I got to playing it and I just haven't gotten around to parting with it.

If anything, I think I like it better than you (TomK) seem to. In fact you might want to play with that neck pup a little to see if a tweak in height doesn't dial it in. Mine is nice and fat and the tone pot has a huge tonal range, giving it everything from growl to chime. Of course neck pup tone is very subjective.

By the way, the misfit cup doesn't seem to be caused by the hole being too small, at least not totally. On mine, the cross brace that holds the jack itself in place isn't deep enough in the hole, so there's not enough room to push the cup flat. I'm not sure quite how to fix that, but it works, so I guess there's no rush.

Anyway, it's good to hear another take on the instrument.

Oh man, so the blem I just ordered from MF wasn't yours?!!!!

Rats, well, fingers crossed.

stephent2 · January 11th, 2005, 01:22 AM

Great review! Thanks.

I just played my Muddy at a gig tonight (through the house SFVR), it was juuuust right.

Don't want to drop names but Sean Costello (a part time tele player himself) stopped in and sat in on my guitar for a set, he also gave the Muddy his seal of approval.

The Muddy isn't a perfect guitar, but it's a mighty fine guitar and an exceptional deal at $500.

Vihar · January 11th, 2005, 01:44 AM

Now that's literature! :D

pugsfly · January 11th, 2005, 03:18 AM

Great review, makes me GASsing for a MW myself..

nedray · January 11th, 2005, 05:04 AM

Yeah--gotta admit, I'm getting less inclined to lengthen the blem list. It really is a great guitar to cover all your basews with. I could see me gigging with it as my lone weapon--it's that verstile. And at the price, you don't have to chain it to yourself for fear of theft. It sounds as if the latest production might have a set of consistent minor QC issues that are more annoying than anything.
Muddy lust lives!

TomK · January 11th, 2005, 06:52 AM

Okay, I worked the with neck pickup more last night. First of all I did some tweaking at my amp, SFDR, (which was dialed in for my bender Tele with darker, overwound pickups). I even swapped out the speaker for a new Reverend All-Tone I had forgotten I ordered. Whoops...

Now we're getting somewhere!!! I still need more time with it, but I like the meck position much better already... :D

black_doug · January 17th, 2005, 09:25 PM

I also read your review with a great deal of interest, Tom. Good job! Mine arrived last August - NOS from an eBay store auction. Cost only US$465, Fender deluxe gig bag too.

I bought one because I just wanted a tele with an ash body and a rosewood board. My other tele is MIA in '00 and also has an ash body but a maple board.

The Muddy Waters is now my favourite! Played through a Gibson GA-30RVS 2x12 combo it sounds sweet. I've never had so many compliments.

I think it's overdue for a set-up. I'm gonna try a light top, heavy bottom set of strings like Pete Anderson uses (9/11/15/28/39/49) because I often use a hybrid picking technique like him. (Not that I can keep up with him.)

BTW, I saw a used one come in just last Friday at The Twelfth Fret if you are near Toronto.

January 10th, 2005, 03:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
TomK Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 449	My Muddy Waters Tele... (sorry if it's a bit long) Here is a partial review of my new MW for those who are interested in the Mud... Body Nice, bright CAR finish---obviously a bit thick, but pretty flawless otherwise. No lip on the neck pocket or router hump. Neck pocket seems a bit shallower than vintage (maybe 1/8" or so). Ash body, but I have no idea how many pieces have been glued up to make it. Neck Excellent feel! It has a "C" shape, but is chunkier than the "C" profile you find on the US and Custom Shop early-60's reissues. Satin finish poly is smooth and dry with a nice tint. Peghead outline is close enough, but transition from neck to peghead is more modern than vintage (no nice tadeo taper on the back and more dramatic angle from nut the string posts). It reminds me of the two MIJ Teles I once owned. It's not bad, just different. Fretboard Hmm. I have mixed feelings here. The board is smooth and playable enough with nice big frets (well, after a quarter-turn tweek of the rod) but the 'rosewood' is so-so. I understand that at this price I won't get a primo piece of wood for the board, but the stain used to make it look more even-colored covers my fingertips. I've tried dry-buffing it off and then went to naptha, but it's still there... The grain is also quite uneven, BUT playability doesn't suffer, so it's really a cosmetic issue. The frets are leveled well enough, and there are no sharp ends, but the ends are not polished at all. Also, some careless filiing has gone through the stain on the edges of the board revealing lighter wood. But again, it's cosmetic. Hardware Tuners are Ping (not Gotoh) made for Fender. They work just fine, but have a slightly spongier feel than the Gotoh variety. Also, they look a bit different: the gear housing is deeper and more boxy while the taper on the string post extends lower and the bushing appears smaller giving them a slightly different look. The butterfly tree is screwed down to the face with no spacer. Strap buttons are, well, strap buttons with no felt washer. The pressed jack cup does not fit flush into the body. Another recent MW purchaser here noted the same oversight on his guitar as well. It sticks out almost 1/8". I'm guessing finish build-up has reduced the diameter of the hole, but I haven't pulled it apart to check as it's working fine for me as is. The switchplate, bridge tray and brass saddles appear to be standard US Fender fare. I do have the saddles adjusted pretty high to compensate for the shallower neck pocket (see above) but this actually makes the guitar more comfortable as no height-adjustment screws are digging into my hand. One of the bridge mounting screws is a bit off-center. The amp knobs are functional and make good sense if you don't keep your volume and tone wide-open---but the irony here is that they are much harder to adjust on the fly due to their smaller diameter and minimal friction. Switch tip is a basic top-hat tip that fits snuggly. Pickguard has the extra screws Muddy style, but I switched to a parchment-colored 5-hole guard due to cosmetic preference. Otherwise the guard is basic, square-edge single-ply white plastic. Electronics Pots and switch are full-size and resemble those used in the US-made Teles. I didn't look closely to see a manufacturer, but they all feel of good quality and quiet operation (unlike their overseas counterparts). A small ceramic disc cap is used for the tone circuit. The wiring is a combination of cloth-covered vintage style on the pickups (see below) and modern plastic insulated wire. All appear to be well connected. Pickups Admit it, you scrolled down to this part, didn't you... The neck pickup is okay, not bad, not fantastic, just okay. It is not the "full-drawn" cover which extends down to the base, but you only would know that if you pull the pickguard. The tone is a bit too dull for me as I really like using the neck pickup for twangy Luther Perkins style stuff---however, it's not so bad that I want to replace it immediately...I'm going to give it a chance. Now the bridge pickup is the cat's pajamas! I'm very impressed with its bright, open tone--think Roy B snapping that G string on "Haunted House." It also sounds fantastic for overdriven rock tones. It has height-staggered poles (which are not bevelled) so it's not exactly like the 52 AVRI pickup. It is also pretty loud, but I would never say it sounds over-wound (like, say, the darker Texas Tele tone). Both pickups have vintage-style cloth-covered leads. I haven't had a chance to measure their output for those who are into the numbers. Gig bag It's a gig bag. :( (But it did have a sample of the 'mist and wipe' polish in the pocket.) I've got a gently used tweed case on the way... OVERALL My Muddy weighs in around 7.8 lbs. ... which is considerably lighter than my bender-equipped Tele so it feels like a feather to me. Fit and finish (other than the jack cup) are great, basic tone is great (body resonates pretty well), very playable neck, good looks... If you were going to max out your lifetime Tele dollars at $500 (you'd probably be kidding to yourself if you are like me) then I honestly can say the Muddy Waters is a wise choice--lots of vintage Tele vibe and tone for a fair price. Here endeth the reading. __________________ ***************** Insert something clever {here}.

January 10th, 2005, 06:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
nedray Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: No. Virginia Age: 55 Posts: 165	Very thorough review I'm the other guy that complained about the jack cup and, unlike your good overview, I just complained about that and the sloppyish job on the fretboard. Sounds as if yours is very similar to mine. I was going to send it back but then I got to playing it and I just haven't gotten around to parting with it. If anything, I think I like it better than you (TomK) seem to. In fact you might want to play with that neck pup a little to see if a tweak in height doesn't dial it in. Mine is nice and fat and the tone pot has a huge tonal range, giving it everything from growl to chime. Of course neck pup tone is very subjective. By the way, the misfit cup doesn't seem to be caused by the hole being too small, at least not totally. On mine, the cross brace that holds the jack itself in place isn't deep enough in the hole, so there's not enough room to push the cup flat. I'm not sure quite how to fix that, but it works, so I guess there's no rush. Anyway, it's good to hear another take on the instrument.

January 10th, 2005, 07:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
timgreene Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,254 10 Photos	You guys trying to cool down the Muddy lust? I like mine, got it about a month ago, brand new. Jack cup is fine. Did'nt notice all of the neck fret issues. Only flaw in mine was one of the tuner bushings was not flush with the headstock. I thought, I read the guitars go through a final inspection, and playing, before they are shipped? Mine arrived tuned down 1/2 step, but in tune. Blues out of the box. I like both pickups just fine. The first review missed the fact that the skirted volume knob drags on the front control plate screw. Good honest reviews, on a guitar that has much praise. __________________ opinions expressed are the view of the author, and are not necesarily correct.

January 11th, 2005, 01:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
stephent2 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA. Age: 57 Posts: 2,300 20 Photos	Great review! Thanks. I just played my Muddy at a gig tonight (through the house SFVR), it was juuuust right. Don't want to drop names but Sean Costello (a part time tele player himself) stopped in and sat in on my guitar for a set, he also gave the Muddy his seal of approval. The Muddy isn't a perfect guitar, but it's a mighty fine guitar and an exceptional deal at $500. __________________ "and the women,.... great googly-moogly". --Howlin' Wolf

January 11th, 2005, 06:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
TomK Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 449	Update... Okay, I worked the with neck pickup more last night. First of all I did some tweaking at my amp, SFDR, (which was dialed in for my bender Tele with darker, overwound pickups). I even swapped out the speaker for a new Reverend All-Tone I had forgotten I ordered. Whoops... Now we're getting somewhere!!! I still need more time with it, but I like the meck position much better already... :D __________________ ***************** Insert something clever {here}.

January 10th, 2005, 03:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	Great review!!!!

January 10th, 2005, 05:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cb TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 89	A terrific review indeed. I think we can all learn from TomK's fine example. Cb :P

January 10th, 2005, 06:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mark Davis Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bakersfield Ca. Age: 58 Posts: 12,468	I wish everyone did reviews that good! That left no stone unturned great and honest review.

January 11th, 2005, 01:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
Vihar Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hungary Posts: 170	Now that's literature! :D

January 11th, 2005, 03:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
pugsfly TDPRI Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 42	Great review, makes me GASsing for a MW myself..

January 11th, 2005, 05:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
nedray Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: No. Virginia Age: 55 Posts: 165	Yeah--gotta admit, I'm getting less inclined to lengthen the blem list. It really is a great guitar to cover all your basews with. I could see me gigging with it as my lone weapon--it's that verstile. And at the price, you don't have to chain it to yourself for fear of theft. It sounds as if the latest production might have a set of consistent minor QC issues that are more annoying than anything. Muddy lust lives!

January 17th, 2005, 09:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
black_doug TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Age: 51 Posts: 44	Muddy Waters Tele I also read your review with a great deal of interest, Tom. Good job! Mine arrived last August - NOS from an eBay store auction. Cost only US$465, Fender deluxe gig bag too. I bought one because I just wanted a tele with an ash body and a rosewood board. My other tele is MIA in '00 and also has an ash body but a maple board. The Muddy Waters is now my favourite! Played through a Gibson GA-30RVS 2x12 combo it sounds sweet. I've never had so many compliments. I think it's overdue for a set-up. I'm gonna try a light top, heavy bottom set of strings like Pete Anderson uses (9/11/15/28/39/49) because I often use a hybrid picking technique like him. (Not that I can keep up with him.) BTW, I saw a used one come in just last Friday at The Twelfth Fret if you are near Toronto.