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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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vintage vs modern wiring

'scuse muh ignernce ... but I'm new to the whole tele thang, and I came across another post that mentioned the difference between vintage and modern wiring ... without actually explaining what that difference is.

So ... could somebody please enlighten me. What is the difference between these two kinds of wiring and what effect do they have on how the pick-up selector/tone controls work ... and, I suppose, the relative pros and cons of each?

Thanks in advance.

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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Vintage wiring.

Switch all the way up neck pickup plays with no tone control and the signal goes thru some resistors and caps to make a sorta Bassy muffled sound.

Switch in the middle neck pickup plays with tone control.

Switch all the way back bridge pickup plays with tone control.

Modern

Switch all the way up neck pickup plays with tone control

Switch in the middle both pickups play at once with tone control

Switch all the way back bridge pickup plays with tone control
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Vintage = bad
Modern = good
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Bf,
Mark Davis really knows this Tele stuff. So there you go. If you ever want to modify the wiring on your guitar you can do a seach here or go to any number of pick up manufacturers web sights.

I like the modern right out of the box. I haven't removed the pick gard in twenty years.

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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hmmm? Thanks. That's very interesting.

I wonder how many people actually prefer the vintage wiring to the modern? To my way of thinking, the modern wiring would apppear to be far more versatile. But then again it all depends on personal taste and the desired application.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Mr. Davis is correct, and this is how 52 reissues come, stock.

But just to add confusion, "50s wiring" often refers to the way the tone pot used to be connected on Les Pauls. Basically, the tone pot is connected from the output of the volume pot instead of the input.

This is also known as the "Fezz Parka mod" around here, as well as a few other names. On normal "modern" wiring, you lose treble when turning down the volume. The 50s wiring scheme reduces this, allowing better treble retention as volume is lowered. The other approach is to use a treble bleed cap, but that lets too much treble through IMO. I use the 50s version on all my guitars, works great!
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by johnnytronics View Post
Vintage = bad
Modern = good
Ya don't see that very often.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlefreek View Post
Hmmm? Thanks. That's very interesting.

I wonder how many people actually prefer the vintage wiring to the modern? To my way of thinking, the modern wiring would apppear to be far more versatile. But then again it all depends on personal taste and the desired application.
If you ever listen to Roy Buchanan his Tele was vintage wired.

He never used the all the way up preset bassy sound position only the middle and all the way back switch positions.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thejerk View Post
Mr. Davis is correct, and this is how 52 reissues come, stock.

But just to add confusion, "50s wiring" often refers to the way the tone pot used to be connected on Les Pauls. Basically, the tone pot is connected from the output of the volume pot instead of the input.

This is also known as the "Fezz Parka mod" around here, as well as a few other names. On normal "modern" wiring, you lose treble when turning down the volume. The 50s wiring scheme reduces this, allowing better treble retention as volume is lowered. The other approach is to use a treble bleed cap, but that lets too much treble through IMO. I use the 50s version on all my guitars, works great!
Yeah, on LPs the 50s wiring is preferred, at least by many.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 05:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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thejerk says: "... [with] "50s wiring" ... the tone pot is connected from the output of the volume pot instead of the input."
"On normal "modern" wiring, you lose treble when turning down the volume. The 50s wiring scheme reduces this, allowing better treble retention as volume is lowered."

So apart from this treble retention, would the pup selector/tone control operation work the same as with an otherwise modern wiring?
ie: 1. Switch all the way up neck pickup plays with tone control
2. Switch in the middle both pickups play at once with tone control
3. Switch all the way back bridge pickup plays with tone control
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 06:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlefreek View Post
thejerk says: "... [with] "50s wiring" ... the tone pot is connected from the output of the volume pot instead of the input."
"On normal "modern" wiring, you lose treble when turning down the volume. The 50s wiring scheme reduces this, allowing better treble retention as volume is lowered."

So apart from this treble retention, would the pup selector/tone control operation work the same as with an otherwise modern wiring?
ie: 1. Switch all the way up neck pickup plays with tone control
2. Switch in the middle both pickups play at once with tone control
3. Switch all the way back bridge pickup plays with tone control
The treble bleed mod juat helps the highs stay on when its turned down it doesnt affect the switch or how the pickups work except the treble is retained at lower volumes.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks. That sounds like a very useable mod!
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah, on LPs the 50s wiring is preferred, at least by many.
True, and a very common mod among Gibson people.

Irony is, some 1950's Gibsons left the factory with "modern" wiring, and some even had one pickup wired "vintage" and one wired "modern."
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Each time I try the neck with muffled tone of the vintage wiring I feel frustrated because I don't see any situation I'd use that tone.

My favorite is the modern wiring, as the middle "both pu's on" position is really beautiful on a telecaster.

2 others wiring (I thought they were "vintage") that I find interesting are the tone pot acting as a blend of neck and brige pickups and this wiring:
1/ neck with tone control
2/ bridge with tone control
3/ bridge with tone control out of the circuit

That 3rd position is *bad*, in a good way
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Old November 24th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soopajeanmi View Post
Each time I try the neck with muffled tone of the vintage wiring I feel frustrated because I don't see any situation I'd use that tone.

My favorite is the modern wiring, as the middle "both pu's on" position is really beautiful on a telecaster.

2 others wiring (I thought they were "vintage") that I find interesting are the tone pot acting as a blend of neck and brige pickups and this wiring:
1/ neck with tone control
2/ bridge with tone control
3/ bridge with tone control out of the circuit

That 3rd position is *bad*, in a good way
The only reason that preset bassy sound was put in there is Fender electric BASS guitars werent invented yet so that was ment to emulate the sound of a bass.

It really works great with a fuzz pedal thats the only use Ive used it on.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Vintage wiring sounds like the standard Esquire wiring. I've been thinking of rewiring my Esquire or adding another pickup because I rarely find a reason to use that muffled bassy position. I have to add lots of gain just to hear it properly. That said, it can sometimes have its uses. I use it here for the overdriven bassy line:

http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/3061184
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Old November 27th, 2010, 07:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So what do we call the wiring I have on my Nocaster RI? As far as I can tell there is no tone control. From neck to rear:

1) neck pickup only with "bassy" circuit

2) Neck pickup only straight to jack

3) Bridge and neck, blended with blender citcuit where tone control would be
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Old November 28th, 2010, 10:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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That's the set-up I like on my '07 Nocaster. It came factory -wired "modern", and I thought i liked it until I changed it to vintage with the included parts, and it came alive. Without the tone control, it had more "crrangg" and brashness, and was more like an Esquire. The blend control gives more possibilities with both pickups on. I would not go back.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
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So what do we call the wiring I have on my Nocaster RI? As far as I can tell there is no tone control. From neck to rear:
That's referred to as the Earliest "Blend" wiring...I like it also
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Old November 28th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliban335 View Post
So what do we call the wiring I have on my Nocaster RI? As far as I can tell there is no tone control. From neck to rear:

1) neck pickup only with "bassy" circuit

2) Neck pickup only straight to jack

3) Bridge and neck, blended with blender citcuit where tone control would be
As mellecaster said its what was used on jroadcasters and Nocasters. In 52 it changed to the vintage wiring.
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