How low does a Tele's action go?

[IdahoPicker]

I just got my Standard Ash Tele back from the guitar tech who set it up for me. He did a great job, leveled a couple of high frets and polished them, brought the intonation up to par and raised the pickups right where I want them.
But the action is rather high still, I requested a lower action, but it's still higher than my 01 MIM strat. Is this normal for teles? This is the only tele I've REALLY played, so I'm not sure if this is the nature of the beast. I'm taking it back tomorrow to pay for it, maybe get it lower (if it will).
I appreciate your thoughts.

[Ormond]

I want to push a Tech to the limit on the same thing. I know I need the nut slots cut lower so the G and B strings do not intonate sharp on "cowboy" chords.
I think the key is "how much fret thwacking noise" can you take. I can take a lot. I am playing twangy funky chik'n stuff so I do not mind a lot of bad sound. But I can't have it so low the string goes dead from being stopped by an upper fret.
My Martin D28 needs to stay clean - the Tele does not.

[BuddyLee]

I just lowered my action from the bridge saddles about a 1/4 turn higher than the point I noticed buzzing then did an intonation. It is a modern style bridge so it was pretty easy.

Feels good man.

It is still a lot higher than my Strat. I have been thinking of putting a nitro maple neck on it with the smaller vintage frets though. The '52 RI's have sweet actions with those smaller frets.

[superhand]

I'm no expert, but from my experience, it depends on the saddles and the bridge. That applies to any guitar, Tele or otherwise. Certain saddles/bridges will only let you lower the action so much.

I like to get mine as low as I can get it without any fret buzz anywhere on the neck. I do my own set ups. I've never paid for a set up.

I'm tweakin' my new SX right now... Still waiting for it to settle in because I put 11s on it.

[zyx345]

I have my Baja Telecaster at between 2/32" - 3/32" at the 12th Fret which is the same as my Jackson Soloist SL-2H.

[s_grimey]

I've got my VM Thinline at about 1/16" at the 17th fret across the board, strung up with 11s. Any lower and it starts to fret out on big bends. I probably *could* manage 3/64" if I really dialed in the perfect amount of relief, but I think I'd have too much fret rattle.

[boris bubbanov]

My action will go a lot lower than I need it to go, but that's a good way to make sure everything is just so.

I thought a guy named "Idaho Picker" would wanna be able to get under those strings and operate them. Unless your fingertips are tiny, you need some diggin' room, I would say.

:^)

[Clive Hugh]

Both necks are same scale and depending on what radius, frets you have, nut depth, except for the headstock, the same. What it gets down to is how well the frets have been levelled. I have all my guitars including one of the acoustics the same, the shorter scale has heavier strings so they all feel about the same.
Clive

[Octave Doctor]

My MIM Standard is 1/16" all the way across at the twelth fret, no buzzing or fretting out with .009-.046 EB's. Most of my strats have higher actions so I can play slide if I want to, except the Peavey Predator, which is 3/32" with .009-.042.

It can be tricky dealing with frets that haven't been properly leveled--that one high fret sometimes turns into 3 or 4 if you do big bends.

[Mur]

Just takes couple seconds with a small screwdriver to fine-tune the string height ...I change mine as the mood changes.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by Ormond

I think the key is "how much fret thwacking noise" can you take. I can take a lot. I am playing twangy funky chik'n stuff so I do not mind a lot of bad sound. But I can't have it so low the string goes dead from being stopped by an upper fret.

Anything that prevents your strings from vibrating freely - like those "bad sounds" stemming from a too low action - is going to take something away from your tone. Some players use this to their advantage though, making a slight buzz part of their sound, like Steve Cropper. (He also doesn't like new strings and put Chapstick on them! )

Personally I prefer a little higher action, both for my tone and bending ability. (I do not like new strings though ...)

[Nick Fanis]

ALL guitars are the same,and you can get a very low action w/ proper set up (that will include fret leveling & proper nut cut),providing of course that you gtr neck is well made.

[Fatmanstratman]

Originally Posted by IdahoPicker

How low does a Tele's action go?

The simple answer is... as low as you want until the strings start buzzing on the upper frets when you are fretting a chord.

It's a matter of PERSONAL taste, and should be as low as YOU want it, NOT how the guitar tech happens to like the action on HIS guitars. Take it back, tell him you're not happy, and ask him to get the action as LOW as possible without getting string buzz and choking chords.

[Ronkirn]

The action, at is lowest useable setting, is a balance of . . .

The string slots cut into the nut…. Typically resulting in about .030 clearance at the first fret…

The amount of “bow” allowed by relieving the tension on the truss rod. Fret the G 3rd at the first and 20th fret simultaneously, then observe the clearance between the string and the middle frets, say the 7th through 9th. There should be about .005 clearance. (about he thickness of 2 sheets of printer paper)

The height of the saddles… that one is obvious…

And the angle of the plane of the guitar body’s top relative to the surface of the fingerboard, adjusted by shimming, or the micro-tilt screw...

Also, even trying to achieve a super low action without investing is a GOOD fret leveling, is dumber than Congress… Here’s why… (Those that have followed my “junk” for the past few years can stop here and go get another cup of coffee…

When frets are pressed into a fingerboard, it does not matter what method is used, hammer, press, fat lady in a Speedo, it just doesn’t matter. Wood is NOT consistent… so if you using (for sake of discussion) 10 pounds of pressure to press in the frets, as you move from one slot to the next, the wood will be ever so slightly softer, or harder. Thus the frets can slide in easily, or encounter more resistance.

This results in the frets being ever so slightly higher or lower than the previous fret, often less than .003 (the thickness of a piece of paper). You cannot see this difference when “eyeballing” the neck lengthwise. Or by checking with a straightedge.

So what does .003 inch do…..

If the 13th is .003 higher than the 12th fret, you will have to raise the action high enough so that when fretted at the 12, the angle created by the string as it leaves the 12 headed for the bridge is high enough to clear the 13th. Minimum height in that situation is about the same as 2 new dimes stacked, or .075... That’s way high for many.

A fret leveling eliminates such anomalies.

But the last consideration is your picking style…. A gentle, soft touch will permit a much lower action than a hard driving heavy handed technique...

Finger picking typically requires a higher action too, because you are usually catching the string and pulling it up before allowing to snap back down, therefore the initial vibrations, which are the most intense, are moving up and down relative to the surface of the fingerboard, conversely, a plucked string will be moving parallel to the fingerboard during those first few microseconds when the intensity is at it’s highest thus permitting a lower action.

So, as with most “changes” to your guitar, lowering the action is a marriage of many factors coming together.

Ron Kirn

[mellecaster]

As with most times following Ron...I could not have put it any better !
Action height and General Set-up vs. Playing style and String gauge is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects of Guitar playing IMO...As a Set-up guy and repair person, at times it can become frustrating to explain...especially after the invention of the Internet......

[Notalent]

Owned 3 "real" Tele's, sold them because of high action that refused to get low enough. Bought an $81.80 knock-off, a pick just makes it under the strings, no buzzing or dead frets...go figure!

[3 Chord]

"It's a matter of PERSONAL taste, and should be as low as YOU want it, NOT how the guitar tech happens to like the action on HIS guitars."

+1. It's not about how someone else can set the height of your strings, we all play different, different attack, pulling strings when hybrid picking etc. To me techs are for guitar repairs you don't fell comfy doing yourself. String height is a personal thing that one should try to do themselves.

Or if you felt you paid for this service already, set up a time when the tech will let you stay there and you can play the guitar as the adjustments are made, and don't leave until you are both satsified. And take your Strat with you for them to see.

[boris bubbanov]

Now, Ron, you know better than that.

You have no idea how good a fret might seat when pressed in by a fat gal in a Speedo.

Or do you?

[musicalmartin]

Originally Posted by Notalent

Owned 3 "real" Tele's, sold them because of high action that refused to get low enough. Bought an $81.80 knock-off, a pick just makes it under the strings, no buzzing or dead frets...go figure!

Weird .I found the same .My SX Strat went low and didnt need any fret levelling .Same for my SX thinline . I did do some mild nut work to make it even lower but all my other , more expensive , guitars have needed it .

[Ronkirn]

. . . pressed in by a fat gal in a Speedo.

that comment was spawned by a rare trip to Wal-Mart the other day.... I was lookin' 'round at the way people was dressed.

I just figured I missed that issue of Vogue Magazine... It was kinda scary, specially when I realized, them folks can vote....

rk

[IdahoPicker]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

My action will go a lot lower than I need it to go, but that's a good way to make sure everything is just so.

I thought a guy named "Idaho Picker" would wanna be able to get under those strings and operate them. Unless your fingertips are tiny, you need some diggin' room, I would say.

:^)

Funny you should mention that about being from Idaho. I do indeed come from a long line of potato farmers (yes, the rumors you've heard about Idaho are true), but I'm the runt of the bunch, only 6 feet tall with long skinny fingers.
But more to the point, lower is what I prefer, and all the replies are great! I'm taking the fiddle back today (I have to pay for the job still anyway).
Thanks!

[IdahoPicker]

well, I decided to leave the action where it is, since I'm fumbling my way through slide techniques. I need at least one fiddle with suitable action for standard picking and slide stuff. It really does feel great, though, I must say! Having frets leveled and polished makes all the difference in the world (I actually got a splinter of metal in my finger in the first month I owned it); it's as though I have a different guitar now!

If you guys are ever up in northern Idaho, come on down to Keeney Brothers music, they'll treat you right!

[otaypanky]

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

Anything that prevents your strings from vibrating freely - like those "bad sounds" stemming from a too low action - is going to take something away from your tone. Some players use this to their advantage though, making a slight buzz part of their sound, like Steve Cropper. (He also doesn't like new strings and put Chapstick on them! )

Personally I prefer a little higher action, both for my tone and bending ability. (I do not like new strings though ...)

I agree with Telemarkman. There's a BIG difference in tone between 'just before the strings are buzzing' and having them set high enough to vibrate freely and produce a nice full note.

[Dave_Strat]

I like my action lower than stock, but not low enough to allow my finger to move on top of the next string during a bend. That can make bending clumsy and can lead to a missed bend. I like my strings just at the lowest point that allows me to bend the next string as I bend up the one I intended to bend. That also allows multiple string bends to be accomplished. If they are too low, my finger tends to slip off the one I'm bending and ride across the top of the one above it.

[GuloGulo]

A tele I used to have had shredder low action, was basically barely touch the string and it frets, had a little bit of buzz but wasn't hear-able when plugged in.
It had the 6 saddle bridge however. Although it just dawned on me I set up another persons guitar with a barrel bridge and got that action the same too.

I wish I kept that tele it just sounded so muffled. Ah well I have the guitar I've always wanted now.

[esquire09]

Truss rod adjusment has alot to do with it. You need minimal relief to get realy low action

[Rod.V]

All things being equal, I think the biggest component part of any set-up is the person playing the guitar - their playing style and expectations.

It's all very well acheiving a "cigarette paper" neck relief, with minimal bridge height and nut slots cut so the strings are just off the first fret but if Joe Bloggs plays it like a gorilla wearing boxing gloves then it's all been for nothing.

Interestingly, on a Tele forum, no-one seemed to mention the limitations imposed when encountering a range of different neck radius.
You'll never be able to set the action as low on a 7.25" radius neck as that on a 9.5" or 12", if the player wants to be able to bend the high-E and B strings.

I no longer ask customers if they have a light touch - it can be taken the wrong way - but I always try to ascertain what sort of player they are.
If they hit the strings hard and still want a low action I'll advise them to try heavier strings which will need less room to move.

[Rick J]

Having not read every word of the above thread, only most of them, I might have missed this if it was covered.

Whilst you most often need a tech to deal with some of the more complicated aspects of setup, such as fret levelling, nut cutting, maybe neck setting, etc. - there is no reason why anyone who is not a tech, i.e. you! should not be able to raise and lower the action using the saddles, yourself. Its not rocket science, and its not voodoo. If you overdo , and it buzzes, just underdo it back to where you were, or somewhere between too high, and too low, (that'll usually do it, by the way.)

You don't need to be an accountant to add up a restaurant bill, you don't need to be a lawyer to understand the rules of Monopoly, -- and you don't need to be a guitar tech to raise or lower the action!

Rick J

[Fatmanstratman]

Originally Posted by Rick J

You don't need to be an accountant to add up a restaurant bill....

Well, unless you've just been out drinking and eating with a certain Mr. Stannard that is.....

I owe the old boy a pint, and keep threatening to mosey on down to sunny Suffolk to treat him. But as yet, I haven't had the expected success on the Lotto which will enable me to keep him sufficiently fed and watered. Soon, Johnny boy, soon.....

[zombuswoof]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

that comment was spawned by a rare trip to Wal-Mart the other day.... I was lookin' 'round at the way people was dressed.

I just figured I missed that issue of Vogue Magazine... It was kinda scary, specially when I realized, them folks can vote....

rk

Ron,

When you have a few spare minutes, you might want to check out this site: http://www.peopleofwalmart.com. I guarantee you it is good for an hour of belly laughs!

[randysmojo]

General answer, you can get a tele just as low as any other guitar with proper fret work, nut work, and adjustments. You can be limited by fret board radius depending on how much bending you do. My problem is my 80's tele neck is just to bowed. The tress rod is all the way tight and will not straighten the neck out enough. I'm guessing it's time for the neck to go to a luthier who can put it in the proper vises and change the curvature of the neck, but how much does that cost and how do you find someone you trust to do such a thing on your guitar?

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by Rod.V

but if Joe Bloggs plays it like a gorilla wearing boxing gloves then it's all been for nothing.

Hey!

I resemble that remark!


But I don't think it is all for nothing. Even if the action is proofed out real low, and then jacked back up to suit the player who's been fixing fences and swinging axes (I broke my favorite ax yesterday!) most of the day, you still have the satisfaction of knowing:

The neck wood on the guitar is behaving itself and isn't going anywhere;

Any fret wear (which seems to start out slow then gets worse much faster) has been leveled out and the life of the frets extended a good bit;

Since the nut has been checked out thoroughly, the player knows any tuning issues he's having are almost certainly not the nut but that new set of strings he puts on there 2-4 weeks after he last saw you; and

A player worries less on his guitar when he knows it has just had some TLC.

I promise, it may seem like it is all for naught, but it isn't.