Fender pushing mexicans more

[Strat62]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I would also point out that, adjusted for inflation, Fenders are still cheaper than they were in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Just saying...

Tim

Exactly-I'd been missing for the music scene for some time, and when I got back I was astounded at how cheap everything was. When I was gigging regularly in the 70's I could have really used a second guitar in addition to my old Strat, but never had the money. Within 6 month of returning I had ten guitars.

[pickinrooster]

I just bought a new 52 RI last week. The dealer (a great guy) told me that Fender didn't increase the cost of guitars to the dealer by very much, they just increased the MAP (minimum advertised price) to try to keep their dealers afloat in this economy. That way they can ask for (and hope to get) more, but slide down the price as they see fit. If you can find a dealer (probably not Guitar Center or Musician's Friend) that will deal with you, he said you should be able to haggle a new American Standard for around $1 K or a bit more.

So, if what he said is correct, higher MAP doesn't necessarily mean a big price jump for the consumer, as long as you are willing to negotiate a deal.

On the down side, it will probably make what used to be an exciting trip feel a lot more like buying a used car at a dealership...

[chitlinsonrye]

Why don't the Mexicans organize and push back?

Eh? Oh...right.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by danajohnhill

I also buy American if it is at all possible. I am willing to pay more for a product made in the USA, even twice as much if that's what it costs. Think global, act local, after all. Of course, some items, like computers and TVs, are not frequently made in the USA anymore, so I'm out of luck there.

A couple years ago I bought a set of bypass pruners to cut my roses. I bought the only pair at the home center that were made in the USA. They cost a bit more, but I felt good about it. I was in the same store recently, and the same brand and model of bypass pruners is now made in China. The price is no lower. All the money these companies are saving on labor is going directly to their shareholders and executives. Instead of American consumers' dollars going through a manufacturer to its American employees, helping the US economy, it's bypassing the working-class American and going to the very well off. I understand that that is capitalism in a global market. I'm not ripping capitalism. I just want Americans to have jobs, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Just my $.02.

I see this "price continuity" too. The savvy retailers understand that while I may balk, the vast majority of the people are gonna buy the "expensive" item and never notice the change in country of origin, all the while assuming it is better quality than it is. Others will buy on price only, and for them there's the "cheapie" Chinese pruners. The average person has no idea how little US source merchandise there even is out there, in certain types of products, and it isn't just light fixtures, screw in fluorescent bulbs or window blinds, either. People somehow go from "nah, I don't see it, you're crazy" to "yeah, it is everywhere, can't be changed now, too late to fight back" and they make this transition in the blink of an eye. Fail.

[Mur]

MIM Road Worn are quite nice. For some reason, I WANT ONE!!!!
'

[billco]

Originally Posted by Strat62

Exactly-I'd been missing for the music scene for some time, and when I got back I was astounded at how cheap everything was. When I was gigging regularly in the 70's I could have really used a second guitar in addition to my old Strat, but never had the money. Within 6 month of returning I had ten guitars.

Same here. However, I was more surprised as to how the quality was not on par with modern technology. Case in point, compare automobiles from the 60-70's to those of today. Finding one dead alongside the road back then was a common occurance. Not so today, and the automobiles are much more complex with more to go wrong, yet they are quite reliable. And the fit and finish on todays vehicles is stunning compared to yesteryears. And still, after all these years of advanced technology, Fender still can't consistantly put a bridge or control plate on straight.

I digress, todays guitar prices are way cheaper than those of the 60-70's. If memory serves me, didn't used Tele's sell for $250-350 and new for $700ish in the mid seventies? That was before the Korean, China, Mexico, Custom Shop, and miriad of other offerings were available. If that is correct, then todays USA Teles should be sellling for $2800ish or so. You economic majors, please chime in with the correct numbers adjusted for disposable income. I'd be interested in knowing the correct outcome.

Personally, I would have preferred Fender hadn't taken the route of trying to be all things to all people and becoming the Wal-Mart of music basing their targets on price points, but unfortunately, I wasn't invited to that meeting.

In conclusion, we somehow found a way to buy a Tele/Strat back when USA was all there was, and if that was all that was available today, we would still find a way to acquire one if that was the only choice. Imagine how much simpler things would be.

[Nighthawk]

Fender ougtht to leave those Mexicans alone. Pushing 'em around isn't going to help.

[BobHolland]

Cheap labor, high resale price.
Age old idea.

[JimmyJam]

I thought this was a different topic altogether upon seeing the title...

[revertigo]

theyve cured g.a.s

[Slow Reflexes]

Originally Posted by tele12

Very well said. Fender has become a designer label.

If they weren't, they'd have to compete as instrument makers. BAD strategy for a mass marketer.

[czech-one-2]

we'll i just bought a 1990 mim strat and its a perfect guitar.
i'm all for buying US and creating jobs at home.
which is why every musical item i've bought for the last 9 or so years has come from EBAY. what better way of putting money directly into the pocket of the working class than using the worlds biggest yard sale?
I moved to europe last year,but still buy US via EBAY.

come to think of it,I've never bought a brand new guitar in 20 years of playing or a brand new car in 30 years of driving!
bk

[f5joe]

Personally, I think Fender has a long-range goal of raising the quality of MIM products and stepping up the prices for MIM's at the same time. They see a larger profit margin on MIM products. You can see the quality improving greatly on MIM products and offerings in the last two to three years.

IMHO, ultimately, Fender USA will become a custom shop/high-end only resource. Production numbers will fall dramatically as the main cash flow comes from MIM product.

Just a business man's opinion.

Forgot to add that I bought an '09 Fender USA Thin Skin '52 Tele Hot Rod. Super Yummy!

[F6_FullMelt]

Fender is the OG single coil hustler - expect somebody on the main stem to take a shot to the gut when they could step behind the consumers?

[GuloGulo]

Prices go to a point where people can't afford it and what happens? The company suffers for it. To be honest though, It doesn't make any sense how an overseas guitar could be cheaper then something made in the US. Even with labor. Nothing has to be shipped, no customs taxes or any of that. Even if the currency in the other country is less, and companies ship labor overseas to avoid taxes.. yadda yadda. Its just an easy way to make your company go under too. We need more American made guitars made proudly in the USA so the prices are reasonable, so we have jobs and our economy can get better.

Being in the USA our guitars should be priced competitively with any other guitar and yet not many average musicians can get american made because its wayyyyyyy out of the price range of that person.

I want to buy american made as much as I can but the stuff is so ridiculously priced I can't touch it most the time. Can't wait till all our food is imported!

[Encinitastubes]

I can't believe folks buy new guitars from the big companies. If I wanted a fine, hand-made guitar, I could see the point, but Gibson, Fender, Martin, PRS, all of them are pretty reasonable used.

[big jimmy]

"My Mex Classics blow away most of the USA Teles I've ever had."

I do not find this to be true. I have bought and sold a bunch of guitars and find quality in most MIM to be hit and miss. But over all the USA guitar are a much better guitar.
But the quality of MIJ I find very good and consistent, but with crappy electronics.
And it's not bashing JMHO.

[FredDairy]

Originally Posted by big jimmy

"My Mex Classics blow away most of the USA Teles I've ever had."

I do not find this to be true. I have bought and sold a bunch of guitars and find quality in most MIM to be hit and miss. But over all the USA guitar are a much better guitar.
But the quality of MIJ I find very good and consistent, but with crappy electronics.
And it's not bashing JMHO.

Me too. I've owned three differend MIM Classic Teles and a MIM Classic Strat and they just felt "cheap" when compared to the American Vintage series.
But that's off topic...

How many of you guys actually buy you guitars new from shops? I always go ebay, and of course I don't get to touch it before buying but I've found my #1 Tele that way. You can get a new Nocaster on ebay for under 2 grand these days. Someone had an auction that no one bid on for a '51 Nocaster that ended at $1200 No reserve. So the current price hike hasn't really effected the used market.

[petebradt]

I bought my last guitar a few years ago, so Fender can do whatever they want and it won't affect me a bit.

Time for y'all to build those partscasters!

[stevieboy]

Originally Posted by GuloGulo

To be honest though, It doesn't make any sense how an overseas guitar could be cheaper then something made in the US. Even with labor. Nothing has to be shipped, no customs taxes or any of that.

Not to argue with any of your other points in your post, but the Ensenada, Baja California factory is only a couple of hundred miles from the Corona, California factory. It became practical for Fender to move it's imported line of guitars from Japan (where they contracted the work from other companies) to Mexico when NAFTA erased the tariffs.

They simply have to truck guitars, or parts and partially completed guitars depending on the model, back and forth.

[DMace]

As far as I'm concerned, Fender is now a 'used' instrument company. Why pay top dollar for a new Fender when ebay and craigslist are littered with nearly new Fenders at a steep discount?

[redcurtis]

In August, I had a 52 hot rod in my hands at a SAM ASH in Philly (1300 US, Canadian dollar was par). In November, with the Canadian dollar going back into the crapper, I bought a USA HSS Strat (to go with my USA Tele, Mexican Tele, and Squire Tele) for a grand (Canadian). Now the 52 hot rod is approximately 5 bazillion dollars.

My knee is now sore from kicking myself...shoulda bought that 52 hotrod. IDIOT!

The strat is nice...but it ain't a tele.

anybody want to trade? I'll give you my strat and $100 Canadian dollars for a 52 hot rod...hahahhahhaha. C'mon...it's only been gigged with once (I always end up using the USA tele...teles are a superior beast).

[tele12]

Originally Posted by f5joe

Personally, I think Fender has a long-range goal of raising the quality of MIM products and stepping up the prices for MIM's at the same time. They see a larger profit margin on MIM products. You can see the quality improving greatly on MIM products and offerings in the last two to three years.

Well from what I have seen the prices of the MIM Fenders has been raised but the quality has not. Over the last few years the sampling of Baja Telecasters I have seen have had the absolute worst quality control of any model/manufacturer's guitars I have seen. The Classic Player Strats haven't been much better. The current Road Worns I have seen have also been very spotty in quality. It appears to me Fender's philosophy on their MIM guitars is crank the production numbers up as fast as possible with little regard for quality control.

[Wardpike]

First of all, Drunkin miner has the GREATEST signature art ever! Fender and the Native Flag. Way to go!!

Fender? Is not overpriced, just coming back to market realities and stopping to undersell their products! Just consider what buying similar brands cost and all of a sudden Fender isn't that highly priced!

[bcomer]

I gotta say this:

Buy American. If you can't, buy Mexican.

Consumer products in Mexico are more expensive than here, so a lot of Mexican retail business comes up to the US. Essentially, if their economy gets better, so does ours.

As far as Mexican factories go, I've been in them (recently); not the Fender factory per se, but American owned ones. They use the same quality control and manufacturing techniques that are used in the USA (albeit in Spanish...). The newer ones are not as exploitative as you may think. The pay is (very) low for entry level, but there are advancement and job opportunities where there were none, and you can live cheap there.

It's by no means perfect, and I don't want to work there, *but*, it ain't China either. At least they're our neighbors.