Pink Paisley Paper

[Buckocaster51]

Good point Terry.

I know that when I was working on that pattern in Photoshop, I "fixed" most of that off-registration stuff.

If I ever get back to working on it, I will layer the different colors and "un-fixing" it should be a piece of cake.

[TDPRI]

Rotogravure used to be the most cost effective way to print really large runs of multi-color print runs. As an example. Parade Magazine printed every Sunday in hundreds of newspapers across the country used to be printed with rotogravure process.

And, it isn't the most tightly registered item. So, those trapping problems (that's what printers call it when the colors don't line up perfectly) were very common. Ever see a Parade Magazine that was way offer in your Sunday paper? I sure have.

And, yes it was used by Wallpaper and gift paper folks, too.

Today, large format 4, 6, and 8 color offset presses are used.

I've heard this paisley pattern called Wallpaper for years but I've also heard it called gift wrap.

It is odd that nobody has researched this to the end result.

[varakeef]

Duchossoir says that "both (Blue Flower and Paisley Red) finishes were achieved with stickum wallpaper applied on the top and back of the body and then sprayed with polyester".

But what puzzles me is that if it was wallpaper, is the any rooms somewhere decorated with the exact same paper... "Is this house for sale, maybe?"

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by varakeef

Duchossoir says that "both (Blue Flower and Paisley Red) finishes were achieved with stickum wallpaper applied on the top and back of the body and then sprayed with polyester".

But what puzzles me is that if it was wallpaper, is the any rooms somewhere decorated with the exact same paper... "Is this house for sale, maybe?"

Here in the UK, it's the sort of covering that would be found on the walls of Indian and Asian restaurants in the late 60s and 70s but I haven't seen anything similar for years.

I must confess, it would be a little garish on the walls of a whole room! Great for Telecasters but not for a whole room.

Peter

[TerryOz]

Sacrilege, Peter, nothing short of sacrilege! There are probably castles full of it in your neck of the woods by the way!
TerryO

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by TerryOz

Sacrilege, Peter, nothing short of sacrilege! There are probably castles full of it in your neck of the woods by the way!
TerryO

Hey, you're right. I forgot to check the neighbours castle!

Seriously, though. Could you imagine a whole room in Pink Paisley?

Peter

[TerryOz]

It'd be pretty garish I think, but I do believe that there is probably some rolls out there and that it'll show up one day, but also that it is possible to duplicate it exactly and that rotogravure was how it was done...I have read more and it seems as though Rafas friend is right...I wonder if there are boutique printing companies out there who might do a run of this stuff...?

[Buckocaster51]

I'm still betting that it was not done in rolls, but one sheet at a time.

Or at least that is how it was done in '84.

And maybe that is why there is such a difference...

[neocaster]

Anybody know how Crook does these? I want to know how Fender did them, too, but I'd be more interested to know how Bill does these and where he gets or makes his prints.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by neocaster

Anybody know how Crook does these? I want to know how Fender did them, too, but I'd be more interested to know how Bill does these and where he gets or makes his prints.

If I was Bill Crook, I'd be playing my [Paisley] cards very close to my chest!

Peter

[Buckocaster51]

If you look at pictures of several of Bill's guitars, you will notice that the same paisleys are always in the same place.

His patterns are printed on sheets of paper that are basically just big enough to cover a body.

Beyond that I really haven't figured out exactly how he does his.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[TDPRI]

On my Crook body it appears to be a scan of a real Paisley body. The gold background isn't metallic and it's not three dimensional -- that is it is not embossed but a photo or scan of something embossed.

[mojocasterman]

I don't know how he does it, but dang, I love his work!

[TDPRI]

Here's a close up of my Crook Paisley body. Notice the background. Also notice the colors aren't out of register like the real ones. I never noticed that before.


This was scanned on my desktop scanner at 300 DPI. The fuzziness is contained in the Crook paisley paper. This photo is actual size and not enlarged or reduced in any way. This body is 8 or 9 years old by the way. So it may not be his current Paisley process:

[PeterUK]

It occured to me that I worked with an international, award winning interior designer earlier this year and he's a specialist in wallpapers. His designs are awesome.

I've dropped him a note (hello Phil if you're reading this!) and asked him if he could provide any advise on such matters.

I've linked him to this thread and supplied copies of Terry's pictures, so hopefully if he's got the time, he may be back to me.

Peter

[TDPRI]

I have contacted a "vintage wallpaper" expert myself. Don't know if I'll hear anything. I did find a sample of something similar to the blue floral -- not the same mind you. But similar.

[Berserker]

Terrific thread to watch as it progresses. Living in Huntington Beach, CA I grew up with surf boards always around. And also watching the building process. Now, after looking at the close-ups of the silver backing, it sure looks like simple surf board fiber glass....which is silvery......don't jump me guys, just thinking outside the box.



Gil

[TDPRI]

I saw a Tokai Paisley Tele at a local guitar show two weekends ago. It was $1700 and had a Bigsby installed -- otherwise I expect I would have bought it.

Anyway, I looked at it as closely as I could in the confines of the show.

It looks very much like the real thing. Metallic embossed background -- that appeared golden not silver -- the same paisley pattern. I didn't think to shot a photo. Darn.

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by Berserker

Now, after looking at the close-ups of the silver backing, it sure looks like simple surf board fiber glass....which is silvery......don't jump me guys, just thinking outside the box.

I have some fiberglass cloth here and the weave is probably 10X taller and thicker on the fiberglass than it is on the backing of the "wallpaper" or gift wrap.

[Berserker]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

I have some fiberglass cloth here and the weave is probably 10X taller and thicker on the fiberglass than it is on the backing of the "wallpaper" or gift wrap.

Agreed, however there are a multitude of different grades (thicknesses) of glass. Just wondering, knowing how well glass adheres, takes screens, and takes finishes. Some of the weaves and texture look very similar to the close-up posts. Great stuff team!

Gil

[mojocasterman]

The plot thickens

[TDPRI]

In doing more research on wallpapers, I'm starting to feel it must be gift wrapping paper. I think the give away is both the paisley pattern and the metallic background. You're not going to want - nobody is going to want --that on a wall.

But, as a gift wrapping paper. That's something else.

I found a book called: All Wrapped Up : Groovy Gift Wrap of the 1960's by Kevin Akers That might have some clues, but it's $20 and Google Books doesn't show every page. The nearest library that has a copy is 450 miles away.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

The nearest library that has a copy is 450 miles away.

If you hurry you can make it before closing time!

Off you go.....

Peter

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

In doing more research on wallpapers, I'm starting to feel it must be gift wrapping paper. I think the give away is both the paisley pattern and the metallic background. You're not going to want - nobody is going to want --that on a wall.

But, as a gift wrapping paper. That's something else.

I found a book called: All Wrapped Up : Groovy Gift Wrap of the 1960's by Kevin Akers That might have some clues, but it's $20 and Google Books doesn't show every page. The nearest library that has a copy is 450 miles away.

InterLibrary loan?

I just checked. Doesn't seem to be in any Iowa library

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

I found a book called: All Wrapped Up : Groovy Gift Wrap of the 1960's by Kevin Akers That might have some clues, but it's $20 and Google Books doesn't show every page. The nearest library that has a copy is 450 miles away.

I have a sister-in-law that works for the Madison (WI) Public Library. She is going to try to get her hands on their copy (it is in different branch so it will take a few days) and we'll have her and my brother look through it for us.

And it won't cost $20!

[psychotelepathic]

Originally Posted by Buckocaster51

I have a sister-in-law that works for the Madison (WI) Public Library. She is going to try to get her hands on their copy (it is in different branch so it will take a few days) and we'll have her and my brother look through it for us.

And it won't cost $20!

I went to the foremost gift wrap expert (Charles Sarklin) in North America in attempt to match the famous Fender paisley paper. I offered him $1200 if he could find an exact match, figuring I would have a great return on investmen after reproducing and selling the finished product. He poured over dozens of books and hundreds of samples to no avail. He called literally every major paper collector in North America, and even a few in Western Eurpope. In the end, it was a fruitless exercise that left us both exhausted and defeated.

good luck.

[TerryOz]

The gift wrap thing is possible I guess, but I have these two Paisleys and the more I look, it LOOKS like wallpaper, it seems much thicker than gift wrap paper, which is just a very thin non dimensional paper, which I think is what the Crooks look like, a print in fact...this stuff looks say 3 times as thick as paper...Also, if they were taken from sheets that were roughly the size of the body, there would be a relative uniformity of the placement of the patterns, but this doesn't appear to be the case, they all seem to have their own "fingerprint"...At least that is what I see...I might add that it is a very different world 40 years on and yes, we wouldn't put it on our walls these days, but go back a while and you see a different set up altogether...Might not be Wallpaper, but hard to see it as giftwrap paper though...Getting more interesting by the day rthis thread...

[Buckocaster51]

Here are some pictures I just took. This was sold to me as some of the '68 stuff, but it clearly is not. It is though, identical to what is on my '84.

It has spent most of the last 25 years rolled up in a mailing tube.



from the back it looks like plain old paper. I'm not a paper expert but it looks like bleached kraft paper.



Little, if any, embossing is visible on the back.

It has picked up some fluid stains on some of the edges.

It isn't very thick.



Very close to the thickness of a paper grocery bag...if you can remember those.

The foil is very thin...



There is no tendency for the foil to delaminate form the paper.

I can not tell if the foil is printed or has been attached to the paper through some mysterious process.

[Buckocaster51]

Now we'll look at the whole sheet.

Whithout a flash



with a flash



This is a sheet of stuff.

Not a roll.

It is large enough to do a bass body.

It would make nifty gift wrap.

It would make horrible wall paper with all of those seams.

The poor registration is obvious.



Like the neck pocket "lip" on old Telecasters and the pickup "butt crack" on the 52RIs, I guess for authenticity it would need to be there. To me it is clearly a "mistake" and if I ever make any paisley paper it will not be there.

Here you can see the embossing in the silver.



Now you know about as much as me about this stuff.

[TDPRI]

All this makes sense... and doesn't.

Knowing Fender, they didn't commission this stuff. It was something STOCK. Well, that's pure conjecture on my part. But Don Randall says, we need something to appeal to the Hippies. And, so someone, Leo? I'd think not, someone young maybe, gets put in charge with coming up with ideas. And, so somehow they came up with the Paisley and the Blue Floral. And, I'd guess they both came from the same place.

But what made them think of putting paper on a guitar body? They didn't have any other guitar companies doing this. I think there was a decoupage trend back in the late 1960's. I remember playing with it on an old piece of furniture.

Humm. If it's not gift paper or wallpaper. Perhaps Contact brand paper? Art Papers? Shelf liner (as in Contact)?????

Here's a photo of some 1960's Vintage Contact paper:



I can't imagine that metallic background on Contact paper though.

Just thinking out loud. Nah, it can't be that.

[varakeef]

So this one is my latest effort. The sheet originates from a photo copy of a original 1968 guitar that I recieved from john s a few years back. Due it's age and wear it's a relic or road worn version.

The location and all the stuff in the middle follows the original. Some of the patterns are slightly fixed because of excessive blurring and ... ferrule holes. (It's the one that is upside down, the changed thingie is the "monopod" of the paisley and the upper right leave.

Next I'm going to get it printed it on something transparent, with and without the golden brownish background. And maybe also into paper with background pattern.

[mojocasterman]

Oh the length at which we go

BTW, seams or no seams, that would make for some pretty HORRID wall paper.

[tomtheguitarguy]

Originally Posted by RedDirt

I think I have to go with Paul on the two sheet concept, but it would have had to come from the factory that way. Several things to note:

1) In the light pink areas, you can see the base "pebble" pattern through.
2) In the dark pink and green areas, you can see a different "canvas" pattern.
3) In the background areas, there is never a visual hint of a clear sheet over the pattern, nor can you see and de-lamination or glue residue.

There is no way you could faithfully reproduce this without heat and pressure to laminate the sheets. I think that even with a vaccum press you would see glue somehow.

(There still has to be a good way to fake it though)

Maybe it's my eyes playing tricks, but:

1) in the light pink areas it looks like there is a (for lack of a description) wavy line pattern that if you look past, you can see the embossed look;

2) in the dark green and pink areas, if I look closely I can still see the embossing underneath, just tinted the green and pink.

Is it possible that the paisley pattern was/is printed on a clear sheet and then placed over the embossing?

Sorry that I'm late to the conversation, and if someone has already brought this up, I apologize for the repeat.

Tom

[TDPRI]

The "wavy line pattern" could simply be a screen to create the pink from the darker red color.

When you "screen" solid colors you can set different percentage screens to make different colors -- lighter versions of the original color.

Looking at it now it's not a 4 color print job but a 3 color print job: solid green and solid red -- with areas of the red screened back about 50% to create a Pink color -- and a solid color of an even lighter pink area.

That lighter pink could be a further screen of the red (like at 15%) but I don't see the "half-tone" in the lighter pink like I do in the medium pink.

A printer's lupe would help tell the story of all these colors.

New theory -- The background of embossed metallic has a clear top coat applied and the paisley pattern is printed on top of the clear top coat. That would give us the look of two pieces without there being two pieces.

[TDPRI]

Reproducing this paisley paper would actually be pretty easy BUT it would require finding the right silver embossed background with a clear coat over it. Then it's just a simple print job.

Commercial scanners could easily reproduce the pattern and determine the exact ink PMS Colors and combination.

It wouldn't be cheap, and you'd have to produce a pretty significant quantity. But this can be done.

[varakeef]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

It wouldn't be cheap, and you'd have to produce a pretty significant quantity. But this can be done.

It seems we all have to use the rest of it as a wallpaper then...

[Buckocaster51]

Pretty sure that on my sheet of paper from '84 there are four (4) distinct ink/paint colors.

green

light pink

dark pink

red

Doesn't look like the variations are coming from any half-toning or screening process.

[cmatthes]

This is really cool -I feel like this should be an episode of "CSI"! I also think that contact paper may have been a more likely candidate than wrapping paper, as that stuff was HUGE back then. I have seen foil (and flocked foil) wallpaper from that era as well - if you can't imagine a room totally papered in pink paisley over foil, then maybe you haven't actually been to Graceland!

I'm digging it, and am looking forward to the day when I can buy two sheets wide enough to cover my double neck Tele. :D

BTW - Fender's Custom Shop did a few Paisley guitars in recent memory, and I recall that the Strat I saw up close (IIRC, it was a Gene Baker Masterbuilt version), had the correct-style '60s paper, not the '80s reissue stuff. The lines were crisper, the colors appeared a bit sharper and the reds were more red than pink. It has been a few years, and I didn't take pics, but remember it well. The pickguard also had the paper underlying a clear top, but had a W/B laminate underneath, not like the clear guards with the spray "burst" on the underside.

Not sure if Fender used original stuff for this, but it's possible they dug something up. I'm sure that they wouldn't be all that willing to share that info, but has anybody heard back from Fender?

This is another great TDPRI thread. Love it!

BTW - my brother ("Serial") had a Pink Paisley Tokai in the mid '80s. He may be able to shed some light as to what was underneath. I seem to recall that was more like the old Fender stuff and not the MIJ reissues as well.

He also saw a dealer at the Philly guitar show in '97 selling large sheets of the stuff, but is pretty sure it was the repro stuff.

[varakeef]

You mean this thread:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...elecaster.html

[openbar]

For science, and laughs, my (supposedly) '86 MIJ. This picture is very close to the real-life color, definitely has a gold tint. And the color underneath the pickguard and bridge are pretty much identical to the rest of the guitar, in other words: no fading nor darkening of the exposed areas.

Now if only I could find out what bridge pickup they used, it has no markings at all. I'd pay good money for another.